*** Iron Fist (Immortal Weapon) ***

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Comments

  • poomermon wrote:
    The problem is that there really aren't any better green skills in the game that combo well with Fist. You need a good black user (like cyclops or bp) in the team and that narrows it down really hard. Even when I have the luxury to pick my third none of the green users seem particularly good fit.
    Patch green comboes pretty ridiculously great with him. He does make black for loki and has a permanent attack tile.
  • Inarius
    Inarius Posts: 135 Tile Toppler
    anyone tried playing a 3/5/5 icon_ironfist.png / 3/5/5 icon_lukecage.png and 5/5/3 icon_falcon.png?

    is that like a wall or something?....IF will basically spam the board with blackflag.png and feed Kage while Falcon would empower both their special tiles
  • Inarius wrote:
    anyone tried playing a 3/5/5 icon_ironfist.png / 3/5/5 icon_lukecage.png and 5/5/3 icon_falcon.png?

    is that like a wall or something?....IF will basically spam the board with blackflag.png and feed Kage while Falcon would empower both their special tiles
    It's meh.

    In that composition a 5/5/3 iron fist would be substantially superior. We've talked about 5/3/5 Cage 5/5/3 Iron fist a lot but I haven't seen anybody pull the trigger yet. The offensive potential of something like BP IF outclasses this kind of "build and build" strategy in basically any case.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Inarius wrote:
    anyone tried playing a 3/5/5 icon_ironfist.png / 3/5/5 icon_lukecage.png and 5/5/3 icon_falcon.png?

    is that like a wall or something?....IF will basically spam the board with blackflag.png and feed Kage while Falcon would empower both their special tiles
    I've tried it, but the tiles don't stay around long enough to build up to anything that makes it worth having Falcon around.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    Inarius wrote:
    anyone tried playing a 3/5/5 icon_ironfist.png / 3/5/5 icon_lukecage.png and 5/5/3 icon_falcon.png?

    is that like a wall or something?....IF will basically spam the board with blackflag.png and feed Kage while Falcon would empower both their special tiles
    I've tried it, but the tiles don't stay around long enough to build up to anything that makes it worth having Falcon around.


    Same here, it's a waste of Falcon's yellow. I have done icon_ironfist.png / icon_blade.png / icon_falcon.png now that gets some damage going, you have no outlet for yellow, but I was doing over 4K a turn at onepoint with Blade's and IF's attack tiles plus the strike tile damage.
  • I think they need to change his AP threshold to 9 instead of 12 and that'll hopefully slow down the double purple into game ending cascade deals. Green can use a buff anyway, even though I don't think it's needed.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    I think they need to change his AP threshold to 9 instead of 12 and that'll hopefully slow down the double purple into game ending cascade deals
    Yes, because if there's one thing everybody is asking for right now is for the game to be slowed down even further.
  • kidicarus
    kidicarus Posts: 420 Mover and Shaker
    ArkPrime wrote:
    Inarius wrote:
    anyone tried playing a 3/5/5 icon_ironfist.png / 3/5/5 icon_lukecage.png and 5/5/3 icon_falcon.png?

    is that like a wall or something?....IF will basically spam the board with blackflag.png and feed Kage while Falcon would empower both their special tiles
    It's meh.

    In that composition a 5/5/3 iron fist would be substantially superior. We've talked about 5/3/5 Cage 5/5/3 Iron fist a lot but I haven't seen anybody pull the trigger yet. The offensive potential of something like BP IF outclasses this kind of "build and build" strategy in basically any case.

    I use a 553 fist and a 535 cage. I love it. That's actually my specialist survival node team and ultron killer. For the long game, 5 green is really good. Only problem is not enough red tiles and sometimes you feel a 4-5 black fist would have downed one opponent faster esp on a green starved board.

    When paired with 4hor it feels like you're cheating. 6 waves 190-218? no problem
  • After finally getting 5 purpleflag.png due to 1000 HP tacos, unholy Shuma Gorath, he's overpowered. You can like...cast ROTP a bajillion times...and that's WITHOUT using boosts.
  • raisinbman wrote:
    After finally getting 5 purpleflag.png due to 1000 HP tacos, unholy Shuma Gorath, he's overpowered. You can like...cast ROTP a bajillion times...and that's WITHOUT using boosts.
    Are you trying to get more people to hate you?
  • ArkPrime wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    After finally getting 5 purpleflag.png due to 1000 HP tacos, unholy Shuma Gorath, he's overpowered. You can like...cast ROTP a bajillion times...and that's WITHOUT using boosts.
    Are you trying to get more people to hate you?
    rude too bad I can't downvote
  • I wouldnt say his Purple is overpowered really.

    Many times ive cast it and not got any instant cascades, and only been able to get a Match-3 out of it, its all just luck really.

    Dooms Blue, board dependant, can be far more devastating, again with luck.

    I find this game about 60/40 Skill/luck.
  • I wouldnt say his Purple is overpowered really.

    Many times ive cast it and not got any instant cascades, and only been able to get a Match-3 out of it, its all just luck really.

    Dooms Blue, board dependant, can be far more devastating, again with luck.

    I find this game about 60/40 Skill/luck.
    you'd rather doom blue than IF purple? No wonder you don't like it
  • Sword user
    Sword user Posts: 72
    This is not popular, but that purple....it's super nasty, and very easy for the AI to play. I'd prefer a place 4/5 black, rather than IF as the defensive nightmare he is now.

    In all seriousness, what are the odds that the purple will be 'looked into' again? At the moment, he's as good an AP source as Hood, or maybe even better. If he's gonna stay the way he is, I'd invest HP in him, but I can't help but look at this as too good to be true.
  • I wouldnt say his Purple is overpowered really.

    Many times ive cast it and not got any instant cascades, and only been able to get a Match-3 out of it, its all just luck really.

    Dooms Blue, board dependant, can be far more devastating, again with luck.

    I find this game about 60/40 Skill/luck.

    The skill is in calling when you need 5 or 10 mana to get a bunch of crits. After playing with him a long time I barely ever don't get a ton of black when using the skill.

    Doom blue, on the other hand, is 100% luck. You're collecting blue and you need a ton of blue to fall between blacks to get anything out of it.
  • Sword user wrote:
    This is not popular, but that purple....it's super nasty, and very easy for the AI to play. I'd prefer a place 4/5 black, rather than IF as the defensive nightmare he is now.

    In all seriousness, what are the odds that the purple will be 'looked into' again? At the moment, he's as good an AP source as Hood, or maybe even better. If he's gonna stay the way he is, I'd invest HP in him, but I can't help but look at this as too good to be true.
    So I keep thinking about this, and IF purple is basically Magstorm. And since we have even less boosts now, that means it's even more cancerous a move.

    I don't get it D3 - Magstorm is too powerful but Iron Fist can do the same thing for less, in a more important color, and that's okay. I guess since very few people have Bagsilver/X/Iron Fist at max efficiency they aren't as worried about it as they are 2* characters running amok....
  • Iron Fist is obviously meant to be balanced due to a lack of HPs. Just like this never worked with The Hood until they banished him to an unbelievably low HP tier this probably won't work for Iron Fist unless everyone else got another 3K HP bump.
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,246 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sword user wrote:
    This is not popular, but that purple....it's super nasty, and very easy for the AI to play. I'd prefer a place 4/5 black, rather than IF as the defensive nightmare he is now.

    In all seriousness, what are the odds that the purple will be 'looked into' again? At the moment, he's as good an AP source as Hood, or maybe even better. If he's gonna stay the way he is, I'd invest HP in him, but I can't help but look at this as too good to be true.

    I don't think you can evaluate a character because of his interaction with another character. Yes he is a great black generator, but if you look at IF only, he can't do much with it unless he has 12 blacktile.png in the bank, that takes a while to gather and then you need greentile.png or purpletile.png to take advantage of it.

    His purple is also a double-edged sword vs other blacktile.png users. You might end up giving them the AP they needed since you don't automatically get all the blacktile.png put on the board. So if you're looking for an effective counter, bring a black user and you'll see you can take advantage of that (Luke Cage is actually a good counter to IF).

    By himself he is rather balanced. He's a strong opponent but that doesn't mean he's OP.
  • sinnerjfl wrote:
    Sword user wrote:
    This is not popular, but that purple....it's super nasty, and very easy for the AI to play. I'd prefer a place 4/5 black, rather than IF as the defensive nightmare he is now.

    In all seriousness, what are the odds that the purple will be 'looked into' again? At the moment, he's as good an AP source as Hood, or maybe even better. If he's gonna stay the way he is, I'd invest HP in him, but I can't help but look at this as too good to be true.

    I don't think you can evaluate a character because of his interaction with another character. Yes he is a great black generator, but if you look at IF only, he can't do much with it unless he has 12 blacktile.png in the bank, that takes a while to gather and then you need greentile.png or purpletile.png to take advantage of it.

    His purple is also a double-edged sword vs other blacktile.png users. You might end up giving them the AP they needed since you don't automatically get all the blacktile.png put on the board. So if you're looking for an effective counter, bring a black user and you'll see you can take advantage of that (Luke Cage is actually a good counter to IF).

    By himself he is rather balanced. He's a strong opponent but that doesn't mean he's OP.
    his purple isn't a double edged sword because you end the match with it.

    You can't balance characters by themselves in a 3v3 game.
  • Sword user
    Sword user Posts: 72
    You can't look at IF in a vacuum, though, either. And the AI will never use his purple twice in a row, while it will generate a lot of black on a single use. Luck can effect it, and it can fail, but the AI can get enough purple from the cascade for back-to-back usage.

    But, while we're talking, would it be better to bring a black user against him, feed him enough purple to put it off early (before they have enough for multiple skills on the likely cascade) and hope that you can use the black? It seems like a far-fetched strategy, but if his purple is a double-edged sword, then it would have to be a viable one.

    I've got a 2/2/2 IF and a HP bank that's enough to take him to 2/5/2 (that I've been saving for Roster Slots, since I hate throwing away new 3*, and not having essentials), how long would I have before possible adjustment? I suspect, based upon my interactions (heroic losses, I mean, worse than against pre-nerf Wolv, at least you could realistically deny him AP) with him, that just in cascade potential, IF would be a blast to play.