*** Iron Fist (Immortal Weapon) ***

1212224262729

Comments

  • he is still toptier 3*, no doubt!

    if he would be usable for u after the purchase, id say, go for it
  • Xenoberyll
    Xenoberyll Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
    I still think he's great - just not op anymore. I'm using him with X-force Wolverine mostly but even on his own i often get enough black/purple to take down my opponents no problem. His attack tile is enough to kill a small guy fairly fast and is going to eat many a healthpack once he's featured again.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    yeah, he's solid, I have found myself struggling though if I lose my black user character as it really bogs you down. Sure purple becomes lethal, but green is just Punisher Judgement and against high health guys he's a bigt slow
  • They haven't nerfed him enough, he is still over-powered. 5 purple is too cheap, it should cost around 8-9 purple and then he won't be OP.
  • He's still powerful enough to be worried about a nerf, though there does seem to be a significant power creep in the recent characters so I can see him being top of the new power creep as being barely balanced.
  • Trisul
    Trisul Posts: 887 Critical Contributor
    Phantron wrote:
    He's still powerful enough to be worried about a nerf, though there does seem to be a significant power creep in the recent characters so I can see him being top of the new power creep as being barely balanced.
    They haven't nerfed him enough, he is still over-powered. 5 purple is too cheap, it should cost around 8-9 purple and then he won't be OP.
    (I'm working on leveling him next, shhhhh!)
  • Trisul wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    He's still powerful enough to be worried about a nerf, though there does seem to be a significant power creep in the recent characters so I can see him being top of the new power creep as being barely balanced.
    They haven't nerfed him enough, he is still over-powered. 5 purple is too cheap, it should cost around 8-9 purple and then he won't be OP.
    (I'm working on leveling him next, shhhhh!)

    If a character like Kamala Khan is going to become the standard for 'average' then Iron Fist is probably okay as the #1 3* in that world.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,640 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    Trisul wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    He's still powerful enough to be worried about a nerf, though there does seem to be a significant power creep in the recent characters so I can see him being top of the new power creep as being barely balanced.
    They haven't nerfed him enough, he is still over-powered. 5 purple is too cheap, it should cost around 8-9 purple and then he won't be OP.
    (I'm working on leveling him next, shhhhh!)

    If a character like Kamala Khan is going to become the standard for 'average' then Iron Fist is probably okay as the #1 3* in that world.

    Yeah all new good 3* are very good. Cyclops, Luke Cage, IF and Ms Marvel are top tier 3*, way better than most 4*. It seems devs want us to invest in new chars...
  • Nonce Equitaur 2
    Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
    Making updates, putting characters I need to edit on front pages.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Making updates, putting characters I need to edit on front pages.

    WELCOME BACK!!!!!
  • Polares wrote:
    So, how is playing with him after the nerf? I have some HP to spare and I am wondering now that he has already been nerfed (and I suposse he is not going to be nerfed again soon) to buy one or two purple covers so I can start using him. Is he still worth it?

    He got nerfed from being a 4*Quality Magstorm into a top tier 3*. So yes, he's still worth playing.
    Polares wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    Trisul wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    He's still powerful enough to be worried about a nerf, though there does seem to be a significant power creep in the recent characters so I can see him being top of the new power creep as being barely balanced.
    They haven't nerfed him enough, he is still over-powered. 5 purple is too cheap, it should cost around 8-9 purple and then he won't be OP.
    (I'm working on leveling him next, shhhhh!)

    If a character like Kamala Khan is going to become the standard for 'average' then Iron Fist is probably okay as the #1 3* in that world.

    Yeah all new good 3* are very good. Cyclops, Luke Cage, IF and Ms Marvel are top tier 3*, way better than most 4*. It seems devs want us to invest in new chars...

    it's also combined with older characters(and quicksilver and Ragnarok) desperately need a facelift. Cyclops Red vs Iron Man red, anyone?
  • poomermon
    poomermon Posts: 300 Mover and Shaker
    What do you think is the correct build for fist after the X-Force nerf? I currently have 4/5/4 build (respecking next time when they offer his covers) and I'm planning on using him with either Black Panther or Cyclops so he would be the green user of the team. 5 in black is really good but 3 in green is quite weak. Would having 5 in green offset the damage loss of his black? After playing with him for a while I quite often get the double strike tiles for having 12 black but that takes a while. Thoughts?
  • Mawtful
    Mawtful Posts: 1,646 Chairperson of the Boards
    poomermon wrote:
    What do you think is the correct build for fist after the X-Force nerf? I currently have 4/5/4 build (respecking next time when they offer his covers) and I'm planning on using him with either Black Panther or Cyclops so he would be the green user of the team. 5 in black is really good but 3 in green is quite weak. Would having 5 in green offset the damage loss of his black? After playing with him for a while I quite often get the double strike tiles for having 12 black but that takes a while. Thoughts?

    I don't think rushing Rage of the Panther is going to be the new meta. Casting it early might finish off the squishy Hood/Loki support, but won't take out the tank and will likely give them 5 extra AP to play with. Rushing Full Blast might be a bit better. My Cyke is 3/3/3, so I haven't really played around with him too much, but he's got a nice powerset and doesn't overlap with IF, so it's a solid core for a team.

    Even without 12 Black AP in the bank, Rank 5 Shou-Lao Fang Strike creates 3x 123 strength Strike tiles (+396 damage) which is already enough to make up more than the difference between a level 3 (260) and level 5 (486) attack tile. A 5/5/3 build can potentially be dealing 998 damage per turn on the Attack tile alone.

    Personally, I'm using 3/5/5 and pairing him with XF, because it's still a good combo. But those numbers make a really good argument for 5/5/3 - particularly when running with Cyclops.
  • The green is better than it looks but it's hard to beat black in terms of reliable damage, and of course maxing purple is a no brainer. All his skills are great so pretty much any build is playable but you can basically think of black as 'double to triple your match damage per turn' (black does 486 damage per turn, you'll probably do 200-400 match damage on an average turn) and that just adds up to a ton of damage.

    ROTP isn't the only move you can rush to, but it's certainly a great candidate. Rushing to Surgical Strike is still very viable against a node where one guy is disproportionally harder than anyone else (The Hood, Professor X). In the Simulator Hard battles against Professor X, the node is generally pretty trivial once Professor X is gone, or at least as trivial as 2 level 300+ guys can possibly be, while Professor X can literally turn the game around in a single turn as long as he's around.
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,246 Chairperson of the Boards
    poomermon wrote:
    What do you think is the correct build for fist after the X-Force nerf? I currently have 4/5/4 build (respecking next time when they offer his covers) and I'm planning on using him with either Black Panther or Cyclops so he would be the green user of the team. 5 in black is really good but 3 in green is quite weak. Would having 5 in green offset the damage loss of his black? After playing with him for a while I quite often get the double strike tiles for having 12 black but that takes a while. Thoughts?

    The math, once you get strike tiles out with 12 black AP:

    3/5/5
    382 (strike tiles) + 486 = 868 dmg/turn

    5/5/3
    738 (strike tiles) + 260 = 998 dmg/turn

    It basically comes down to wether you're willing to wait for more damage or prefer constant dmg from the first turn. There's also gonna be a big difference in match damage with that build. If you don't plan to pair him with a green user, 5/5/3 might be better off as well because 3 in green is pretty underwhelming as far as strike tiles go.
  • Since you have given up 226 damage a round up to the point where you launch your strike tile barrage, making up for it at 130 a round (a ratio of 7 to 4), that means you have to have every strike tile live for 7 rounds to every 4 rounds it took you to get them out to balance the books and come out ahead.

    Lets say it takes you 3 turns to get 10 purple which leads to 12 black, another 3 turns to get 8 green. All 6 strike tiles now have to live 11 rounds to come out ahead (by 74 damage). That's unlikely. And this is your best case scenario really, much more likely it took you 8 or 10 or 12 rounds to collect the AP. At 12 rounds all 6 strike tiles have to live for the next 15 rounds to make up the damage lost for not having 5 blackflag.png .

    This is also all centered solely around IF doing damage with his attack.png . Strike tiles do have merit on their own. 4/5/4 is actually decent when it comes to a hybrid bulid. 6 strike tiles at strength 88 makes his damage per turn on the 4 cover attack 858. Basically the same as 3/5/5, but with more versatility in overall damage. You do give up 156 damage a round to get those 2 extra strike tiles. So as long as you have 2+ on the board for longer than you don't have them, you come out ahead. If you think you can muster 12 black and 8 green in the first half of matches, go with green. If you think that's unlikely given the speed of purpleflag.png -> blackflag.png users plus attack.png damage output, go with 3/5/5.
  • Strike tile adds a lot of damage very fast and has more interesting combination compared to a mere attack tile. Of course, the key difference here is that IF's strike tile requires AP and can be destroyed while his attack tile is free and essentially indestructible (only way you lose the damage is if you destroy it yourself). If you can get a green out at all it'll eventually overtake the attack tile just fine, but can you even get it out in the first place given anytime IF is around you'll have a game centered around purple/black?
  • ^That is basically the reason why 3/5/5^

    There are much better green strike tile users out there. 4/5/4 has a BIT of utility but 3/5/5 is a straight purple to black murder machine.
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,246 Chairperson of the Boards
    One more thing about the argument of 3 vs 5 in black, its 2 covers for only adding 226 dmg on the tile.

    Pair him up with Daken/Blade and already you'll have made up that damage with their passives in the first 2 or 3 turns.
    I think there's more value with the tile just existing and respawning than its base strenght.
  • poomermon
    poomermon Posts: 300 Mover and Shaker
    The problem is that there really aren't any better green skills in the game that combo well with Fist. You need a good black user (like cyclops or bp) in the team and that narrows it down really hard. Even when I have the luxury to pick my third none of the green users seem particularly good fit.