*** Iron Fist (Immortal Weapon) ***

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  • StevO-J
    StevO-J Posts: 748 Critical Contributor
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    In the last node of the DP vs MPQ PVE my Iron Fist got downed by an unexpected Avengers Assemble, and when I went to heal him afterwards I saw that it would take 1h40m for him to start healing (at the time I looked it was at 1h38m, but it was some time after the fight). My question is if this is working as intended or if it's supposed to be a down time of 50 minutes? I thought that all 3* characters had a down time of 50 minutes, except the true healing ones. Now I think Iron Fist is also healing faster than normal characters, but I'm not entirely sure about this.

    Could somebody shed some light on this for me?
  • vudu3
    vudu3 Posts: 940 Critical Contributor
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    My Iron Fist just bit the dust and he has a 1h40 minute revive timer. Did I miss the memo that Iron Fist is really a 4* character masquerading as a 3* one?
  • StevO-J
    StevO-J Posts: 748 Critical Contributor
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    Yeah, I had the same thing. I posted about it in the Suggestions & Feedback because I don't really know if it's a bug or not. I think Iron Fist is healing faster than normal 3* characters, as fast as Wolverine or Hulk I'd say, but I'm not sure. I thought maybe this could be the pay off for healing faster, that when downed he takes longer to get up? I'm really guessing here, I didn't know anything about IF before being released as a chacacter in MPQ so I don't know if he has accellerated healing or anything like that.
  • So he turns out to be solid, probably as solid as BP, but he's no hood/loki, and he's not going to bring about Sentry/Hood. But hey, the more top tier 3*s the better.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Tell you what though. If I didn't have 4hor, I would get both IF and Cage to 3/5/5. As is though, Cage 5/5/3 works better with 4hor.
  • StevO-J wrote:
    Yeah, I had the same thing. I posted about it in the Suggestions & Feedback because I don't really know if it's a bug or not. I think Iron Fist is healing faster than normal 3* characters, as fast as Wolverine or Hulk I'd say, but I'm not sure. I thought maybe this could be the pay off for healing faster, that when downed he takes longer to get up? I'm really guessing here, I didn't know anything about IF before being released as a chacacter in MPQ so I don't know if he has accellerated healing or anything like that.

    My speculation is, somewhere along the line Iron Fist was a 4*, but they changed it for whatever reason(without nerfing his abilities!!!!!!), possibly to not release too many 4*(since next event should be a 4*) and they changed everything but forgot about respawn time.
  • StevO-J
    StevO-J Posts: 748 Critical Contributor
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    I guess you're probably right. At first I thought that he was healing faster like Wolverine or Daken, but it seems there is also something off with the way the timer counts down. It looks like it doesn't count every second, but seems to count down in steps of two seconds every second. I don't know if this also happens when he is downed, because then the 1h40mins would be over in 50mins (approx.) and there would just be a matter of an incorrectly displayed timer, and possibly the rate of healing when damaged.

    Now the question is, does this need to reported in the Bugs & Technical Issues or is somebody (from D3) likely to read this here and that's enough?
  • john1620b
    john1620b Posts: 367
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    4*'s heal faster than 3*'s, so the faster healing rate makes sense along with the 4* revive timer. I agree, I think he was probably a 4* at one point, and they changed him to a 3* but missed that part of it.

    It will likely be fixed in a future update, but a post in the Bugs forum wouldn't hurt.
  • iamxzo
    iamxzo Posts: 65 Match Maker
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    check out my second video with iron fist and his synergy with blade and patch !
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0fRlaILf8s
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Everyone has been discussing iron fist + xforce. And some others have discussed cage or patch or falcon as potential partners. Those are all good teams, but they are also all looking at top tier characters (except falcon, who is mid-tier, but also an obvious pair for anyone who generates cheap special tiles)

    But what about less obvious pairs that might be useful for transitioners?

    Will iron fist play well with gamora? He generates black to fuel her strike tiles, which then double-dip off his attack tile. And so long as she is placed ahead of him, she will tank all of her colors.

    How about R&G? 5/6 colors covered (though only 3 actives). R&G makes beefy strike tiles to double dip on the attack tile. And true healing is always nice for sustainability.

    In 2* land, OBW is obvious so long as she can tank at least one of black/purple, and wolvie would generate useful strike tiles. Not sure if there are any other obvious pairings that build off each other (rather than just being two good characters that do their own thing and don't interact).

    Any other good 'further down the roster' synergies that are worth trying out?
  • Vhailorx wrote:
    Everyone has been discussing iron fist + xforce. And some others have discussed cage or patch or falcon as potential partners. Those are all good teams, but they are also all looking at top tier characters (except falcon, who is mid-tier, but also an obvious pair for anyone who generates cheap special tiles)

    But what about less obvious pairs that might be useful for transitioners?

    Will iron fist play well with gamora? He generates black to fuel her strike tiles, which then double-dip off his attack tile. And so long as she is placed ahead of him, she will tank all of her colors.

    How about R&G? 5/6 colors covered (though only 3 actives). R&G makes beefy strike tiles to double dip on the attack tile. And true healing is always nice for sustainability.

    In 2* land, OBW is obvious so long as she can tank at least one of black/purple, and wolvie would generate useful strike tiles. Not sure if there are any other obvious pairings that build off each other (rather than just being two good characters that do their own thing and don't interact).

    Any other good 'further down the roster' synergies that are worth trying out?

    Err, Black Panther? He's not any easier or harder to get than any other 3* at this point I think.

    If you don't have Black Panther or X Force you're probably better off just straight up nuking for 4K with 5 purple AP once you hit the 12 AP threshold, which should only take one level 5 purple to get most of the time. Sure, the cascade does a huge amount of damage, but very few enemies you're expected to fight at the transition range can withstand purple's straight up damage. Against stronger targets you'd probably be better off to spend the black and then recycle another cascade. Note that Iron Fist has a 4.5X modifier, so he can do some serious damage from the cascades formed by his purple too. For that matter his green is also very powerful once the 12 black threshold is reached, though probably not as generically useful as just having black on level 5 for the guaranteed damage.
  • After you finish up the Immortal Iron Fist series ?(you're going to read Immortal Iron Fist, right?!), you may want to check out the Immortal Weapons miniseries. It's light on Danny Rand but it's still great stuff.

    fat cobra!
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Vhailorx wrote:
    Everyone has been discussing iron fist + xforce. And some others have discussed cage or patch or falcon as potential partners. Those are all good teams, but they are also all looking at top tier characters (except falcon, who is mid-tier, but also an obvious pair for anyone who generates cheap special tiles)

    But what about less obvious pairs that might be useful for transitioners?

    Will iron fist play well with gamora? He generates black to fuel her strike tiles, which then double-dip off his attack tile. And so long as she is placed ahead of him, she will tank all of her colors.

    How about R&G? 5/6 colors covered (though only 3 actives). R&G makes beefy strike tiles to double dip on the attack tile. And true healing is always nice for sustainability.

    In 2* land, OBW is obvious so long as she can tank at least one of black/purple, and wolvie would generate useful strike tiles. Not sure if there are any other obvious pairings that build off each other (rather than just being two good characters that do their own thing and don't interact).

    Any other good 'further down the roster' synergies that are worth trying out?

    The main thing about Iron Fist is that you really really need a good black to unlock his potential. The whole point to IF is that you're supposed to use his purple to accelerate into 12 black, then use his green/purple, followed by the black ability. If you don't have a worthwhile black skill, then that's like making it so that his green and purple cost 12 black + 9 green, or 12 black + 6 purple which is... a lot worse. This is why I am perplexed about people saying that Blade is great with him: the strike tile / attack tile interaction is nice, but the actives just do not play well with each other at all. I did an analysis a lot earlier in the thread: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24256&start=60#p302731, and I stand by my predictions that those are going to be who Iron Fist should be paired with.

    Gamora is a weird one: on one hand, purple accelerating into black into strike tiles seems very good. On the other hand, you lose a ton of value on Gamora's black since you need to cast Iron Fist's green and purple before using her black, meaning they can't dip off the strike tiles. For a transitioner with both Gamora (such that Gamora tanks everything) and IF though, I could see this combo working out pretty well, but it tapers off considerably once Gamora tanks less colors.
  • Xenoberyll
    Xenoberyll Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
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    Mystique has some nice synergy too, though not as smooth as xforce or black panther imho but her blue creating purple/black can lead to some nice cascades with IF using that purple to create even more black. It's very satisfying if you get enough purple with this to shapeshift before you masterstroke...but Kun Lun is probably more effective anyhow, now that i think about it.

    other than that...Cyclops should work nicely too and Luke Cage of course...
  • Vhailorx wrote:
    Everyone has been discussing iron fist + xforce. And some others have discussed cage or patch or falcon as potential partners. Those are all good teams, but they are also all looking at top tier characters (except falcon, who is mid-tier, but also an obvious pair for anyone who generates cheap special tiles)

    But what about less obvious pairs that might be useful for transitioners?

    Will iron fist play well with gamora? He generates black to fuel her strike tiles, which then double-dip off his attack tile. And so long as she is placed ahead of him, she will tank all of her colors.

    How about R&G? 5/6 colors covered (though only 3 actives). R&G makes beefy strike tiles to double dip on the attack tile. And true healing is always nice for sustainability.

    In 2* land, OBW is obvious so long as she can tank at least one of black/purple, and wolvie would generate useful strike tiles. Not sure if there are any other obvious pairings that build off each other (rather than just being two good characters that do their own thing and don't interact).

    Any other good 'further down the roster' synergies that are worth trying out?

    As a Transitioner, I'm not touching Gamora until she gets buffed.
  • Changing the topic for a second - we don't have a build poll up; is the consensus build 3/5/5? That's what I"m leaning for and - if it's that - I'm not going to kill myself for his green in the current PVP, since it should be coming up in the DDQ within 2-3 weeks, and that'll be his third green cover for me.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ben Grimm wrote:
    is the consensus build 3/5/5?
    Has to be. The bump in green from 3 to 5 seems so inconsequential compared to the other two.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Vhailorx wrote:
    Everyone has been discussing iron fist + xforce. And some others have discussed cage or patch or falcon as potential partners. Those are all good teams, but they are also all looking at top tier characters (except falcon, who is mid-tier, but also an obvious pair for anyone who generates cheap special tiles)

    But what about less obvious pairs that might be useful for transitioners?

    Will iron fist play well with gamora? He generates black to fuel her strike tiles, which then double-dip off his attack tile. And so long as she is placed ahead of him, she will tank all of her colors.

    How about R&G? 5/6 colors covered (though only 3 actives). R&G makes beefy strike tiles to double dip on the attack tile. And true healing is always nice for sustainability.

    In 2* land, OBW is obvious so long as she can tank at least one of black/purple, and wolvie would generate useful strike tiles. Not sure if there are any other obvious pairings that build off each other (rather than just being two good characters that do their own thing and don't interact).

    Any other good 'further down the roster' synergies that are worth trying out?

    The main thing about Iron Fist is that you really really need a good black to unlock his potential. The whole point to IF is that you're supposed to use his purple to accelerate into 12 black, then use his green/purple, followed by the black ability. If you don't have a worthwhile black skill, then that's like making it so that his green and purple cost 12 black + 9 green, or 12 black + 6 purple which is... a lot worse. This is why I am perplexed about people saying that Blade is great with him: the strike tile / attack tile interaction is nice, but the actives just do not play well with each other at all. I did an analysis a lot earlier in the thread: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24256&start=60#p302731, and I stand by my predictions that those are going to be who Iron Fist should be paired with.

    Gamora is a weird one: on one hand, purple accelerating into black into strike tiles seems very good. On the other hand, you lose a ton of value on Gamora's black since you need to cast Iron Fist's green and purple before using her black, meaning they can't dip off the strike tiles. For a transitioner with both Gamora (such that Gamora tanks everything) and IF though, I could see this combo working out pretty well, but it tapers off considerably once Gamora tanks less colors.

    So does IF warrant shifting Cage into 5/3/5? Or is he still better off as a 5/5/3 helper of 4hor?
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    Vhailorx wrote:
    Everyone has been discussing iron fist + xforce. And some others have discussed cage or patch or falcon as potential partners. Those are all good teams, but they are also all looking at top tier characters (except falcon, who is mid-tier, but also an obvious pair for anyone who generates cheap special tiles)

    But what about less obvious pairs that might be useful for transitioners?

    Will iron fist play well with gamora? He generates black to fuel her strike tiles, which then double-dip off his attack tile. And so long as she is placed ahead of him, she will tank all of her colors.

    How about R&G? 5/6 colors covered (though only 3 actives). R&G makes beefy strike tiles to double dip on the attack tile. And true healing is always nice for sustainability.

    In 2* land, OBW is obvious so long as she can tank at least one of black/purple, and wolvie would generate useful strike tiles. Not sure if there are any other obvious pairings that build off each other (rather than just being two good characters that do their own thing and don't interact).

    Any other good 'further down the roster' synergies that are worth trying out?

    The main thing about Iron Fist is that you really really need a good black to unlock his potential. The whole point to IF is that you're supposed to use his purple to accelerate into 12 black, then use his green/purple, followed by the black ability. If you don't have a worthwhile black skill, then that's like making it so that his green and purple cost 12 black + 9 green, or 12 black + 6 purple which is... a lot worse. This is why I am perplexed about people saying that Blade is great with him: the strike tile / attack tile interaction is nice, but the actives just do not play well with each other at all. I did an analysis a lot earlier in the thread: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24256&start=60#p302731, and I stand by my predictions that those are going to be who Iron Fist should be paired with.

    Gamora is a weird one: on one hand, purple accelerating into black into strike tiles seems very good. On the other hand, you lose a ton of value on Gamora's black since you need to cast Iron Fist's green and purple before using her black, meaning they can't dip off the strike tiles. For a transitioner with both Gamora (such that Gamora tanks everything) and IF though, I could see this combo working out pretty well, but it tapers off considerably once Gamora tanks less colors.

    So does IF warrant shifting Cage into 5/3/5? Or is he still better off as a 5/5/3 helper of 4hor?
    if you have access to any 4*s you want 5/5/3.
  • Omega Red
    Omega Red Posts: 366 Mover and Shaker
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    Iron fist solves the problem of how to beat X-Force. Just bring him with any character with a black nuke and combo with his purple. Anyone who does not have a useful Thora should max him as soon as possible.