Phaserhawk wrote: Phantron wrote: Although you can't place the tiles, if you just get 10 purple it's going to be able to convert enough unless you already have 12+ black AP, and at that point you can either use purple for damage or just use the black AP for something if you got anyone who can use it. One interesting side effect is that IF + X Force will trivially infinite on most DA matchup since purple is their strongest color about half of the time, so Surgical Strike will usually hit purple, though to be fair being able to blow away boring DA events is not the worst thing you can do in terms of balance. Not sure why people are still thinking Thor is the one responsible for the imbalance after how medicore she was in Cage Match and the only restriction applied by that event was you can't use X Force. Thor can't do anything without getting rid of a person fast, and right now the only guy who can reliably get rid of even a weak character with a 3 match move is X Force (X Force). Even boosted, Berserker Rage is not something you can use to immediately get rid of someone with having the other pieces go along with it since it can backfire on you easily, and if you have to wait for say 9g + 11black (for Trickery) or 9g + 10r + 9blue (for Smite) that's already very slow. Now X Force uses the same 3 match green/4 match black, but both of his moves have no drawbacks and is will generally collect a large amount of AP being used, which greatly reduces the amount of AP you need in other colors (and for Surgical Strike, it's often 0 for a certain color). If there's no X Force you almost have to resort to a 4 match move to just kill someone, since the only 3 match moves that can qualify would be Berserker Rage (risky), Fireball (not quite enough damage and is on red), and Oldest Trick in the Book (easy to lose the CD and it's red) and if you need a 4 match move to get anything going, there's nothing fast about that setup at all. Well said. And balancing X-Force could be done so simply without changing the character as much. I have said to have Surgical Strike do exactly the same as it does, but instead of getting AP from # of tiles destroyed, you just get the AP the team had of their strongest color. This would probably stop the Surgical Strike into an always X-Force. So then when you do Surgical Strike 1st turn from boosts and Iron Fist, you would do a good chunk of damage, but wouldn't steal anything since they have no AP
Phantron wrote: Although you can't place the tiles, if you just get 10 purple it's going to be able to convert enough unless you already have 12+ black AP, and at that point you can either use purple for damage or just use the black AP for something if you got anyone who can use it. One interesting side effect is that IF + X Force will trivially infinite on most DA matchup since purple is their strongest color about half of the time, so Surgical Strike will usually hit purple, though to be fair being able to blow away boring DA events is not the worst thing you can do in terms of balance. Not sure why people are still thinking Thor is the one responsible for the imbalance after how medicore she was in Cage Match and the only restriction applied by that event was you can't use X Force. Thor can't do anything without getting rid of a person fast, and right now the only guy who can reliably get rid of even a weak character with a 3 match move is X Force (X Force). Even boosted, Berserker Rage is not something you can use to immediately get rid of someone with having the other pieces go along with it since it can backfire on you easily, and if you have to wait for say 9g + 11black (for Trickery) or 9g + 10r + 9blue (for Smite) that's already very slow. Now X Force uses the same 3 match green/4 match black, but both of his moves have no drawbacks and is will generally collect a large amount of AP being used, which greatly reduces the amount of AP you need in other colors (and for Surgical Strike, it's often 0 for a certain color). If there's no X Force you almost have to resort to a 4 match move to just kill someone, since the only 3 match moves that can qualify would be Berserker Rage (risky), Fireball (not quite enough damage and is on red), and Oldest Trick in the Book (easy to lose the CD and it's red) and if you need a 4 match move to get anything going, there's nothing fast about that setup at all.
ShionSinX wrote: Or the alredy mentioned change in cost, X Force for 10 green and SS for 13 black. Now seriously, why is SS cheaper than TBTI (in quantity)?
SnowcaTT wrote: Saw there were many more pages in this thread, figured I'd head in and start listening how OP Iron Fist is! Instead, I come in and find yet another thread full of complaints about how OP X-force is. SMH. I don't even want to go back and see if folks are trying to compare the OP level of this 3* to the OP level of a 4*. Edit: Fine, I went back...at least it's complaining about how the 3* OP will further boost the OP 4*. All's well then!
dr tinykittylove wrote: Seriously Iron Fist's purple and black are ridiculous. 4k for 5 pink, and a 500attack tile right from the start of the match? I would much rather fight xf/thorina than IF/random 3*.
Ozark Boatswain wrote: So here's the simplest changes I can come up with to make him more reasonable. Purple changed to 8 AP (+3) Passive changed to a repeating CD tile like Human Torch's, so that it goes off at the beginning of the next turn instead of at the end of the current one.
Phantron wrote: Since an equal amount of offense and defense always favors the offense, the attack tile value shouldn't even be greater than Luke Cage's shield as those two abilities are functionally the same. Of course since the game doesn't care for things like offense/defense balanced this is probably irrelevent, though even in an offense dominated world the attack tile way undervalues passive. I'm guessing the design of this game is like say you have a skill that does 200 damage/AP per color and you got one such skill in each color then each turn you basically do 800 damage at least (200 match damage, 3 AP converts to 600 damage later), so the fact that you've a passive means you're no longer doing damage via AP consuming moves on one color so it should contribute enough damage to make that up. However since you get 9 skills between 3 guys you already have 3 abilities that probably aren't doing really doing damage in the first place, and then there's also the fact that nobody gets all the color equally because there are always some skills that are overwhelmingly more powerful so you'd just try to get that color and the fact that you don't have a purple power usually doesn't matter.
Phaserhawk wrote: Here's my whole issue. Cyclops comes out with a 7AP yellow that only changes 8 TU tiles to red at max level. Then you have Iron Fist who changes 9 tiles for 5 purple, not to mention the possible dmg. So both skills are meant to fire up the others, Cyclops yellow is to enhance his black and speed up his red. Iron Fist's purple is to enhance his purple or enhance his green, yet his purple is 10 times the skill cyclops yellow is and for 2 less AP. This is what does not make sense to me.
Thugpatrol wrote: If I were to hazard a guess, I would say they give some value to the fact that Cyclops' power is more predictable, since it directly targets one type of tile to change rather than just spraying the board with randomly placed tiles. When you put these powers side by side though it does seem fairly ridiculous.
CrookedKnight wrote: Also, Cyclops has a power that charges just from having red on the board, while IF needs to actually match black. It's still hugely in favor of Danny, but there's a justification.