*** Iron Fist (Immortal Weapon) ***

Mikaveus

Passive strike tile and passive shield tile. They really wanted to sell the Iron Fist and Luke Cage dynamic duo huh?

As well as Danny producing black tiles for Cage's abilities.

DaveR4470

The nerfs, which haven't happened yet, to Unknown, who doesn't exist yet, have ruined the game for me! /ragequit

Leugenesmiff

Sebastian Shaw, maybe?

TazFTW

Strike tiles, attack tiles, and overpowered? It's clearly Doop

TazFTW

He has been announced by Miles.

Yay, Heroes for Hire.

turul

expected cover: Immortal Iron Fist (2006) #6

IceIX

Updated OP with character info.

CrookedKnight

The Immortal Iron Fist has the best Kung-fu. So bring it.

Okay that's it you get all my money now.

(I still don't get why Iron Fist of K'un Lun isn't yellow. Is his fist glowing purple in the cover, I ask you?)

Colognoisseur

IceIX wrote:

Updated OP with character info.

Thank you for doing this it made the last day or so a lot of fun sppeculating on who this was.

May we have some more please?

Unknown

CrookedKnight wrote:

(I still don't get why Iron Fist of K'un Lun isn't yellow. Where's the purple in his costume, I ask you? WHERE?)

Well he has to match up optimally with Luke Cage, who has a lot more yellow.

CaptainFreaky

I totally dig Iron Fist the character - one of my favorite Marvel characters from even back when I was a wee lass reading comics.
And I'm drooling over the Abilities - when paired with a whole bunch of other folks from XFW to Cage to BP to Cyke to Doom and more.

But the health class does seem a bit out of whack with some previous folks. I'm not really complaining - who doesn't want more health?! But why does Iron Fist have 7650 class when so many other similar folks have 6800 or even less.

I get that there should be differences, and I guess you could "sorta" argue that Danny's super-strong dragon-enhanced Chi gives him enhanced stamina and will to fight - but really it comes down to game design. I think Danny, along with Cyclops before him, really show that Demiurge is trying to deal with the escalation of nukes and other high output moves (not to mention 10K+ class 4* health pools) they've introduced recently by boosting the health of new 3* characters generally.

I think this escalation in health class is a savvy move on their part even if it does obsolete faster some of the older characters (I'm looking at you, Frank and Betsy) - it just means that those of us not firmly in 4* land will have to really prioritize some of these new characters rather than depend on some of the older 3* characters that we have built up over the last 6-9 months. I still use Punisher a lot in DPDQ and PVE, and even initial climbs in PVP at times. But really a character like Iron Fist will very quickly obsolete him - assuming I can get the covers and ISO fast enough that is!

DaveR4470

Now that he's official, I feel the need to post the immortal words of Iron Man from "Lego Marvel Super Heroes: Maximum Overload".....

"Hey! Iron Fist isn't just a fist, you know. He's, like, a whole dude!"

Unknown

CaptainFreaky wrote:

I totally dig Iron Fist the character - one of my favorite Marvel characters from even back when I was a wee lass reading comics.
And I'm drooling over the Abilities - when paired with a whole bunch of other folks from XFW to Cage to BP to Cyke to Doom and more.

But the health class does seem a bit out of whack with some previous folks. I'm not really complaining - who doesn't want more health?! But why does Iron Fist have 7650 class when so many other similar folks have 6800 or even less.

Coming up with the health values for characters can be tricky, all the characters in the Marvel Universe are pretty powerful and resilient, but I like to use an analogy from D&D when it's not clear what a character's health should be:

The health of a character doesn't just represent their physical well-being or resilience: it's a measure of how hard it is to take them down. When you deal damage in D&D it doesn't always mean you hit the opponent, you might have just forced them to making an effort-intensive dodge. You made them easier to take down. So it's not always about who has the best armor or who has a healing factor, sometimes it's about "How hard is it to take this character out of the fight?"

Iron Fist is one of the best fighters around, he's quite difficult to put down in a fight. Just some food for thought.

Unknown

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

CaptainFreaky wrote:

I totally dig Iron Fist the character - one of my favorite Marvel characters from even back when I was a wee lass reading comics.
And I'm drooling over the Abilities - when paired with a whole bunch of other folks from XFW to Cage to BP to Cyke to Doom and more.

But the health class does seem a bit out of whack with some previous folks. I'm not really complaining - who doesn't want more health?! But why does Iron Fist have 7650 class when so many other similar folks have 6800 or even less.

Coming up with the health values for characters can be tricky, all the characters in the Marvel Universe are pretty powerful and resilient, but I like to use an analogy from D&D when it's not clear what a character's health should be:

The health of a character doesn't just represent their physical well-being or resilience: it's a measure of how hard it is to take them down. When you deal damage in D&D it doesn't always mean you hit the opponent, you might have just forced them to making an effort-intensive dodge. You made them easier to take down. So it's not always about who has the best armor or who has a healing factor, sometimes it's about "How hard is it to take this character out of the fight?"

Iron Fist is one of the best fighters around, he's quite difficult to put down in a fight. Just some food for thought.

This is also how I explain to people about the health regen of certain characters. Example is "why does Hulk heal faster than Thor?" I remind them most of the characters in the comics have faster healing, but there are different levels of health regen. Wolverine is the best so use him to scale and Thor is a god, but Thor has the health pool so you can't really heal as fast as Wolverine. As for the Hulk his gamma radiation and being angry makes him heal at a faster rate.

CaptainFreaky

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

CaptainFreaky wrote:

I totally dig Iron Fist the character - one of my favorite Marvel characters from even back when I was a wee lass reading comics.
And I'm drooling over the Abilities - when paired with a whole bunch of other folks from XFW to Cage to BP to Cyke to Doom and more.

But the health class does seem a bit out of whack with some previous folks. I'm not really complaining - who doesn't want more health?! But why does Iron Fist have 7650 class when so many other similar folks have 6800 or even less.

Coming up with the health values for characters can be tricky, all the characters in the Marvel Universe are pretty powerful and resilient, but I like to use an analogy from D&D when it's not clear what a character's health should be:

The health of a character doesn't just represent their physical well-being or resilience: it's a measure of how hard it is to take them down. When you deal damage in D&D it doesn't always mean you hit the opponent, you might have just forced them to making an effort-intensive dodge. You made them easier to take down. So it's not always about who has the best armor or who has a healing factor, sometimes it's about "How hard is it to take this character out of the fight?"

Iron Fist is one of the best fighters around, he's quite difficult to put down in a fight. Just some food for thought.

Hey Miles - thanks for writing. I agree with you about Danny the character - I think his skills and his chi and his general bad-a$$ness mean he's tough to take down in a fight. But while "telling a story" is what you strive for, it's also about game design. I actually applaud what appears to be recognition that health needs to go up as the rate of damage production has also increased. So, whether the Fist's higher health makes sense from a story standpoint or a game mechanic standpoint, I think it's a good thing overall. I just wonder out loud if the game mechanics will generally push all new characters "up a notch" in health class as you design them in the future (I don't expect you to answer that since it's a future looking comment).

Unknown

Ok, @Demiurge_MIles, but the above is also true of (at least) Punisher, Blade, Deadpool, and probably others but those guys get 6800 health? (Not to mention Wolverine and Daken, but those guys regen so their health max is a lie anyway).

There already exists a tier of health for "hard to take down" guys that aren't Thor level bricks. It was 8500. If you aren't strong enough to get 8500 health you get 6800 health. Now Cyclops and Iron Fist with their 7650 is throwing off the whole dynamic. You can not convince me either of these guys is harder to take down than Deadpool.

If 7650 is going to be a thing now as a health tier, I'd say perhaps a few characters could use a boost? I've always felt Deadpool should have had 8500 to begin with the way his functions, but I'd take 7650. Also Blade, even with his out of combat true healing, feels too squishy at 6800.

Der_Lex

IF definitely has the coolest power names in a long while. I might even be tempted to shout them out loud Dragon Ball-style while I use them. That'll teach people to share a train with me.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

Ok, @Demiurge_MIles, but the above is also true of (at least) Punisher, Blade, Deadpool, and probably others but those guys get 6800 health? (Not to mention Wolverine and Daken, but those guys regen so their health max is a lie anyway).

There already exists a tier of health for "hard to take down" guys that aren't Thor level bricks. It was 8500. If you aren't strong enough to get 8500 health you get 6800 health. Now Cyclops and Iron Fist with their 7650 is throwing off the whole dynamic. You can not convince me either of these guys is harder to take down than Deadpool.

If 7650 is going to be a thing now as a health tier, I'd say perhaps a few characters could use a boost? I've always felt Deadpool should have had 8500 to begin with the way his functions, but I'd take 7650. Also Blade, even with his out of combat true healing, feels too squishy at 6800.

I agree with this. Is there any plans to go back and change the health class of past characters since we now have this new health class?

Unknown

Der_Lex wrote:

IF definitely has the coolest power names in a long while. I might even be tempted to shout them out loud Dragon Ball-style while I use them. That'll teach people to share a train with me.

You mean people aren't supposed to shout "Shoryuken" on a Righteous Uppercut?

Unknown

I wonder if there's an attempt to phase out characters below a certain HP level with these recent changes. Iron Fist seems quite overpowered compared to most 3* but that isn't even the most important point, it's that he literally seems to make character in the sub 6800 HP classification unplayable. Granted it was already kind of like this with X Force but now the bar has been lowered in terms of accessibility.

Shouldn't his black be something like 'creates an attack tile if you have 12 or more black AP?' Compare this to Summon Demons or Hailstorm, it's about half the damage but it costs nothing and basically can't be destroyed by any method which I think easily make up for less damage. It seems like this should at least be a 'every other turn' mechanism except the game doesn't have a clever way to do this. I guess you can create a CD that then creates an attack tile but that'd be awfully awkward.