*** Iron Fist (Immortal Weapon) ***

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  • ScoregasmsScoregasms Age Unconfirmed Posts: 373
    Phantron wrote:
    The black passive might as well be renamed as "The Hood/Loki/OBW killer". This seems even more heavy handed than X Force since X Force pretty much just kills anyone unequivocally (but kills low health guys faster). This character looks powerful but as long as X Force reigns supreme it's hard to see another primary damage guy takes his place, though he seems like he'll easily be the top of 3*s.

    There are events (like the current PVE and the last PVP) where X-Force is locked out and finding another quick damage type has been tough for me (at least) to fill that void. I don't have a BP/Blade leveled and I settled on rotating Lazy Daken/Hulk/Cage which are pretty good admittedly. Both Cyclops and "this new guy" seem like pretty great alternatives when we are locked out from using X-Force, not to mention the loads of folks who do not have X-Force anyway.

    Here's hoping the next all damage type 4* shakes up Phantron's world view! (if there ever is one... lol)
  • CrookedKnightCrookedKnight Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,579 Chairperson of the Boards
    What, you don't think he pairs pairs well with icon_wolverine.png? With a strong attack tile immune to board shake and a 5 AP enabler for Surgical Strike?
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2015
    I'll try something different this time around instead of just spewing out whatever comes to mind, so here's a detailed analysis on this character:

    Initial Ability Impressions

    Black - Holy ****. Standard games typically last 10+ turns, so this represents 5k free damage (potentially more depending on strike tiles) throughout the course of the match. 5k damage is a significant amount of damage if it's completely free, so this is a tremendous amount of value just by having him on the team.

    Purple - Holy ****. 4k damage for 5 AP? That's totally overpowered! (slight sarcasm) The drawback of having 12 black isn't even that big of a drawback since the damage is instant. Extra utility of converting black is good as well.

    Green - Eh.... 1k damage and 360 strength in strikes is roughly judgement tier, which is unexciting. 720 strength strikes and 1k damage is better than BP and nuts, but the 12 black drawback matters far more since strikes need to be placed early to gain its value.

    All in all, I expect this character to do 5k free damage with his black first and foremost. If you hoard black, then purple will end up doing probably 8k damage, and green will incidentally do stuff sometimes, but probably not anything impactful. He needs to have a partner that has a good black or else his abilities become far worse. That being said, 5k damage for just being on the team is still pretty damn good.

    Team Compositions

    Something to note that his value depends heavily on if you have a black outlet, since otherwise his purple/green get a lot worse. Just for fun, let's look at all the possible blacks and whether or not a "12 black into this guy's abilities" scenario is worth hoarding 12 black.

    Top Tier - Blacks cost near 12, and the characters work well.
    X-Force - Duhhh. This guy's green is wasted, but surgicals obviously good enough that it works out.
    Black Panther - Yup! Yellow works well with his free attack tile, RotP is a game ender
    Cage - If 5/3/5 Cage (bottom tier if not 5 black cage) - really need 5 black for 12 black to be worth it, but if you have it then this team seems great with two passive tiles and 4 strong actives that don't conflict.

    Middle Tier - not ideal due to these blacks being lower cost, but theres enough synergy to make it work.
    Blade - Sort of weird. Passive abilities mesh well, the active purples do not. I'm guessing a 5/3/5 blade would be ideal for this composition, but it still feels off, since hoarding black means less AP stolen and waiting to cast his black. Probably still fine though.
    Mystique - Really weird as well. Mystique wants her black to be preceded by a purple... which means you can't use this guys purple. On the other hand, infiltration can fuel this guys purple and enable 12 black, so it might be fine.
    Doom - There are SO many nonbos here (purple conflict, black turning off guy's black...), but maybe Doom's blue combined with IF's purple is so good that it leads to massive cascades and wins you the game.

    Bad Tier - blacks aren't good enough to justify going 12 black into guy combos, or the synergies just aren't there
    C. Marvs
    Torch
    Punisher
    Hood
    Gamora
    Mohawk
    Psylocke
    Colossus


    Ideal Build: 3/5/5 seems like a no brainer here. 12 black drawback makes strikes come down way later in the match, and purple's value is instantaneous and cheaper to boot. You'd be insane to not get the extra 3k damage per match for black, so 5 black is the must get ability here.

    And now... the meta check.

    The Meta Check

    End-Game 4* Metagame Check - Assuming player has xor.

    Is this character anywhere near the power level of X-Force / 4or?

    Nope, so you will never use him in any normal circumstance in PvP (where xor is not locked out).

    Is this character better than Loki / Hood as 4or / X-Force's Third Wheel for things such as PvE and Shield Simulator?

    Sometimes. The main advantage that this guy has is that he's a direct counter to characters under 5-6k health, since 500 damage per turn basically kills that guy for free. This means that the best opponents that this guy could face are, well, opposing Hoods and Lokis (our first glimpse at a rock paper scissors metagame!). Also in PvP, people don't want to take a free 5k damage, so this guy is probably a very good defensive deterrent.

    In PvE, once the nodes get hyperscaled (200+), I think he falls out of favor compared to Loki. 5k free damage and 4k nukes doesn't compare so well when facing down 20k juggs. Not to mention that versus those nodes, the only thing that matters is how fast you can accelerate 4or's red / blue, which this guy fails at compared to Loki.

    He is better in situations where you have a high priority target with low HP, and worse once the opponent has very high HP characters.

    The 3* Meta Check - Assuming the player does not have xor, but high end PvP characters like LazyThor, BP, Doom, etc. I'm lumping X-Force players in here too because most is applicable.

    Is this character better than LazyThor

    .... Maybe. HP is worse, but 5k free damage is pretty damn free. One CtS / Thunderstrike combo is like 10k damage, so if this guy gets half of that for free, a single big boy purple means he does as much damage as one of those combos, which seems pretty nuts. Of course, you really do need a black outlet for this guy, in which case there are only three top tier PvP ones: XF / BP / or a 5/3/5 Cage. If you DONT have a good black outlet, then he falls to probably mid-high tier: worse than guys like Cage / BP, but better than guys like Pun. This is means this guy's heavily dependent on combos. If you have them, then he's instantly bordering OP tier. If not, then he drops in value significantly.

    2->3* Transitioners - Assuming the player has only 2*s and this one guy as a 3*.

    Given that the only black spells in 2* land are Torch and C. Marvs, this guy seems a good amount worse than a team carrying guy like Patch. Probably going to be the gatekeeper between mid / high tier: he seems barely better than Punisher if you don't have a good black outlet, but if you do then the all of the sudden becomes insane.

    Seed Killing? - top tier.

    TLDR: Black is insane. Worse than xor. Better than LazyThor (and probably "OP") if you have a good black outlet (XF / BP / 5 black Cage), and simply very good if not.
  • Seasick PirateSeasick Pirate Posts: 264 Mover and Shaker
    I want to officially submit my guess:
    Annihilus!
    Though I would expect protect tiles to be part of their repertoire, I feel these abilities accurately reflect their threat level.



    My first thought was
    Green Goblin
    and I like the idea of
    Drax
    but I'm not sure how the black ability fits their stories.
  • OldboyOldboy Age Unconfirmed Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    edited February 2015
    Please don't hate me but his Purple (and maybe Black) needs to be nerfed. From the player's point, these 2 abilities are great. But if and when we end up having to fight him, it would be a nightmare. And i think he could break PVP although i'm not that experienced in PVP.

    Imagine him with Magstique or with Mystique/4*verine or any purple/black collector.

    Edit: i would love to use him fully or even partially covered but 5 AP would be even more or just as annoying than buffed Daken or Ragnorak or buffed Juggernaut.

    Edit 2: now imagine him with goons feeding him purple (if it's a villain) icon_eek.gif
  • danaedanae Posts: 101
    If the character is
    Iron Fist
    It's funny that if you Google
    focus energy marvel comics character
    He comes up at the top of the list

    As for the abilities, with +3 black/green and +3 all colors and 5 levels in his purple, you could possibly cast X-Force's black on your first turn followed by his green if you're facing another maxed X-Force. Mighty powerful.
  • GothicKratosGothicKratos Posts: 1,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    danae wrote:
    If the character is
    Iron Fist
    It's funny that if you Google
    focus energy marvel comics character
    He comes up at the top of the list

    Yeah, it's;
    Iron Fist, Gambit, Shatterstar (utterly unlikely), and Scarlet Witch
  • i believe it was drax
    -green create two attack tile, implying drax who has two knife
    -purple convert damage(he received?) into damage or black tile....he is tough
    -black, maybe because he kind of atk initiator or something

    also most of ability need black ap, and i assume this is his rage, similiar like juggy who need momentum or hulk need to became angrier.

    *if it villain, i think it was slver s*m&r%i
  • kensterrkensterr Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,277 Chairperson of the Boards
    I wonder if they are going to use either of these covers
    GKYCv9J.jpg?1
    J67NPYe.jpg?1
  • Abilities scream iron fist to me when I read them. Not sure that's a color combo I'd expect from him but I'll take it. The black ability being the attack version of unbreakable for luke cage makes sense for Iron Fist as well given how often they team up
  • LudaaLudaa Age Unconfirmed Posts: 542
    Cyclops got the shaft on his yellow!

    Mutant Revolutionary - 7 yellowtile.png AP
    Cyclops makes a public display of strength to rally young mutants to his side. He converts 4 random Team Up tiles into basic Red tiles.
    Level Upgrades
    Level 2: Converts 5 tiles.
    Level 3: Converts 6 tiles.
    Level 4: Converts 7 tiles.
    Level 5: Converts 8 tiles.
    Max Level: Converts 8 tiles.

    Convert Damage - 5 purpletile.png AP
    Max Level
    Level 3 - Converts 6 tiles to Black or deals 2215 damage.
    Level 4 - Converts 7 tiles to Black or deals 2848 damage.
    Level 5 - Converts 9 tiles to Black or deals 4113 damage.
  • ballingbeesballingbees Age Unconfirmed Posts: 208 Tile Toppler
    That purple ability says 'nerf me' anyhow I try to read it.
  • notamutantnotamutant Age Unconfirmed Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    Ludaa wrote:
    Cyclops got the shaft on his yellow!

    Mutant Revolutionary - 7 yellowtile.png AP
    Cyclops makes a public display of strength to rally young mutants to his side. He converts 4 random Team Up tiles into basic Red tiles.
    Level Upgrades
    Level 2: Converts 5 tiles.
    Level 3: Converts 6 tiles.
    Level 4: Converts 7 tiles.
    Level 5: Converts 8 tiles.
    Max Level: Converts 8 tiles.

    Convert Damage - 5 purpletile.png AP
    Max Level
    Level 3 - Converts 6 tiles to Black or deals 2215 damage.
    Level 4 - Converts 7 tiles to Black or deals 2848 damage.
    Level 5 - Converts 9 tiles to Black or deals 4113 damage.

    Yeah, definitely makes you think why they make the decisions they do. Like having squirrel girl's yellow cost AP and end the turn, but barely be any better than Cage's red. Or why anyone would want Mohawk's yellow over Cmags red when looking for cascades. I suppose they thought that Cyclops can actually use his red for a skill, but Iron Fist doesn't have an active black. Also don't forget that he does need a lot of black AP to do any damage.
  • not sure it is iron fist, his ability supposed involve with yellow for (self)healing, green because melee fighter, and third ability possibly prple or blue......just my 2cent
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    notamutant wrote:
    Ludaa wrote:
    Cyclops got the shaft on his yellow!

    Mutant Revolutionary - 7 yellowtile.png AP
    Cyclops makes a public display of strength to rally young mutants to his side. He converts 4 random Team Up tiles into basic Red tiles.
    Level Upgrades
    Level 2: Converts 5 tiles.
    Level 3: Converts 6 tiles.
    Level 4: Converts 7 tiles.
    Level 5: Converts 8 tiles.
    Max Level: Converts 8 tiles.

    Convert Damage - 5 purpletile.png AP
    Max Level
    Level 3 - Converts 6 tiles to Black or deals 2215 damage.
    Level 4 - Converts 7 tiles to Black or deals 2848 damage.
    Level 5 - Converts 9 tiles to Black or deals 4113 damage.

    Yeah, definitely makes you think why they make the decisions they do. Like having squirrel girl's yellow cost AP and end the turn, but barely be any better than Cage's red. Or why anyone would want Mohawk's yellow over Cmags red when looking for cascades. I suppose they thought that Cyclops can actually use his red for a skill, but Iron Fist doesn't have an active black. Also don't forget that he does need a lot of black AP to do any damage.

    Because if every character had exactly the same ability for exactly the same AP cost, then everyone would be exactly the same, making the game extremely bland. You can't look at abilities in a vacuum without considering the character as a whole: by that logic LadyThor's red is trash because it is terrible without her blue.
  • AronditeArondite Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,188 Chairperson of the Boards
    God I'm so ecstatic. Do you guys realize his purple doesn't say random tiles like every other randomizer does? It reads the way MnMags purple reads.

    In addition to that, I love the fact that

    +3 all
    +3 r/b
    +3 p/u

    Means a first turn Purple from
    iron fist
    into a surgical strike. If their team is XForce / Loaner / IF also, it means you get a free X Force off the surgical strike. Jesus ****ing Tinykitty.
  • TazFTWTazFTW Posts: 695 Critical Contributor
    Demuirge, you should release this character via Heroic Juggernaut. You'll be able to apply for federal funds for testing the limits of the human psyche. icon_twisted.gif
  • IceIX wrote:
    Convert Damage - 5 purpletile.png AP
    Focuses energy into a powerful strike. If the team has less than 12 Black AP, converts 5 basic tiles to Black. If the team has 12 or more Black AP, deals 498 damage instead.
    Level Upgrades
      Level 2: Deals 598 damage if the team has 12 or more Black AP,. Level 3: Either converts 6 basic tiles to Black or deals 697 damage. Level 4: Either converts 7 basic tiles to Black or deals 896 damage. Level 5: Either converts 9 basic tiles to Black or deals 1295 damage.
    Max Level
      Level 3 - Converts 6 tiles to Black or deals 2215 damage. Level 4 - Converts 7 tiles to Black or deals 2848 damage. Level 5 - Converts 9 tiles to Black or deals 4113 damage.

    Ok, now that the above exists, along with Whales, Diabolical Plot, Slieght of Hand, and a few others can we all agree that purpleflag.png damage powers are a thing? They exist. Since they exist, half the reasoning behind changing C.Mags colors falls apart. C.Mags should be changed to either blueflag.png / redflag.png / purpleflag.png (no change in powers) or yellowflag.png / redflag.png / purpleflag.png (a combination that does not yet exist).

    Also, Nick Fury's Escape Plan is in dire need of an upgrade. This power blows that power out of the water, and it's on a 3*. purpleflag.png damage powers are ok now, so make Escape Plan a (better) damage power.
  • El SatannoEl Satanno Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    Wow, that's a pretty beefy-looking character for 3*. I don't know about you folk, but I would say that unless the powers change a fair bit s/he's going to be a highly-prized...uhh...prize. icon_e_wink.gif I will certainly fight hard for someone who can potentially give me a turn-1 or turn-2 Surgical Strike. Imagine that...wow. Ouch.

    If I'm going to speculate who it might be, I like the sound of Bishop, but then again that's reading into IceIX's deliberately neutralized language. Other peoples' guess at Iron Fist makes sense in terms of power synergy, but I haven't seen any reason to suspect that the dev team would start doing something like that so late into the life of the game. Not saying I wouldn't appreciate it! For an oddball guess, I'm just going to throw out Abomination. Why not? The color scheme is about right, he's a plenty-powerful character, and I think many agree another villain would not be a bad thing.
  • In PvE, once the nodes get hyperscaled (200+), I think he falls out of favor compared to Loki. 5k free damage and 4k nukes doesn't compare so well when facing down 20k juggs. Not to mention that versus those nodes, the only thing that matters is how fast you can accelerate 4or's red / blue, which this guy fails at compared to Loki.

    You forget that 20k juggs takes more than 10 turns to kill (most times). I'd wager the 5k free damage is more like 10k free damage in PvE. With this character and Cage paired up, you can take all of Juggs red so he can't headbutt and watch his 20k health melt away. Maybe throw in a Red/Green outlet (for your 3/5/5) like Thor or Patch and watch the good times roll. Also holy **** survival nodes. Those take way WAY more than 10 turns. Bonus damage multiplied.
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