*** Iron Fist (Immortal Weapon) ***

Unknown

DmCMugiwara wrote:

Man, maybe it's just me being paranoid but it seems like his purple cover is the hardest to get so far.

This doesn't exist.

Edit - Here's what the hood in my alt account (which has a single lvl94 2* thor as it's highest hero) looks like.

i.imgur.com/DPun3Xa.jpg

Phaserhawk

Exquisite Technique is so frigging OP my god!!!

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Exquisite Technique is so frigging OP my god!!!

Iron Fist helps everyone experience what high level PvE used to be like when you have a clock of 5 turns before one of your support dies to match damage.

NorthernPolarity

Phaserhawk wrote:

Exquisite Technique is so frigging OP my god!!!

So are the holdouts for 5/5/3 now convinced that 3/5/5 is the way to go?

vudu3

Cage with 5 red covers cuts Exquisite Technique's damage by more than half. Just sayin'.

NorthernPolarity

vudu3 wrote:

Cage with 5 red covers cuts Exquisite Technique's damage by more than half. Just sayin'.

Don't even go there bro.

Chief270

Yea, 355 for me. Green's nice in its own right, but not at the expense of the others.

Pwuz_

I see one risk in going 5 for Black. When Iron Fist is Powered Up (like in his featured PvP), he becomes weak against the Hulk.

EVERY TURN that the Hulk is in front, expect at least one if not more Anger tiles going off.

Honestly made that Simulator node against him, Luke Cage, & Thor actually possible. Hulk kept tanking and generating Green while GSBW saved up for Sniper Rifle.

I know that is hardly a serious concern for most players, especially since a buffed Iron Fist is going to tank Green & Black for Hulk.

Unknown

Pwuz_ wrote:

I see one risk in going 5 for Black. When Iron Fist is Powered Up (like in his featured PvP), he becomes weak against the Hulk.

EVERY TURN that the Hulk is in front, expect at least one if not more Anger tiles going off.

Honestly made that Simulator node against him, Luke Cage, & Thor actually possible. Hulk kept tanking and generating Green while GSBW saved up for Sniper Rifle.

I know that is hardly a serious concern for most players, especially since a buffed Iron Fist is going to tank Green & Black for Hulk.

It's only going to be one Anger per turn unless you made a crit tile assuming your opponent's Hulk is level 166.

There's not much point to worry about that because if you go with say 4 levels in black which won't trigger Anger against a level 166 Hulk, but now you're vulnerable to a lower level Hulk and that might possibly be even more players than before. This just means you probably shouldn't attack Hulk with impunity during Fist Bump.

NorthernPolarity

Pwuz_ wrote:

I see one risk in going 5 for Black. When Iron Fist is Powered Up (like in his featured PvP), he becomes weak against the Hulk.

EVERY TURN that the Hulk is in front, expect at least one if not more Anger tiles going off.

Honestly made that Simulator node against him, Luke Cage, & Thor actually possible. Hulk kept tanking and generating Green while GSBW saved up for Sniper Rifle.

I know that is hardly a serious concern for most players, especially since a buffed Iron Fist is going to tank Green & Black for Hulk.

Remember that a maxed 166 IF's attack tile is only 480 damage. Hulk's anger triggers at 500+ HP, so an IF tile won't actually trigger Hulk UNLESS he is buffed. If you're planning on using IF regularly (aka unbuffed), this is a non issue.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Pwuz_ wrote:

I see one risk in going 5 for Black. When Iron Fist is Powered Up (like in his featured PvP), he becomes weak against the Hulk.

EVERY TURN that the Hulk is in front, expect at least one if not more Anger tiles going off.

Honestly made that Simulator node against him, Luke Cage, & Thor actually possible. Hulk kept tanking and generating Green while GSBW saved up for Sniper Rifle.

I know that is hardly a serious concern for most players, especially since a buffed Iron Fist is going to tank Green & Black for Hulk.

Remember that a maxed 166 IF's attack tile is only 480 damage. Hulk's anger triggers at 500+ HP, so an IF tile won't actually trigger Hulk UNLESS he is buffed. If you're planning on using IF regularly (aka unbuffed), this is a non issue.

Maybe a issues for me because I plan on using Daken along with him.

Unknown

After facing him and using him in Fist Bump the only question is that do you risk spending HP on a guy who is almost certainly too good to not be nerfed. He is pretty much always 50/50 in PvP against any team that doesn't start with boosts, and even with iso 8 boosts the chance of beating him is significantly lower than any other team, because once you have both his purple and black maxed, neither The Hood nor Loki can be used on him safely (you're pretty much guaranteed to lose a health pack on either, and you're also guaranteed to lose to retal because IF eats up your support for breakfast). Without Loki or The Hood you pretty much have to fight the AI at their strong points (making good match 3s) but there's no character that can easily abuse the AI via AP generation that can withstand his black alone, and of course his purple is also devastating. In terms of the PvP meta game I think he's going to have as big an impact as the original pre nerf Daken which basically turned every game against him into a health pack suck since Phermone Rage did enough damage to force you to use health packs even if you played him perfectly. As is right now, he can have black as his only skill, which isn't even his best skill, and it's still a losing proposition to attack him in terms of health pack consumption.

Sandwichboy

I'm of the mind that he's totally worth spending HP on if for no other reason than the dev cycle seems packed enough to push any big nerf to him probably a long ways off. And good god, after that simulator fight with him, TGT and Luke Cage, pretty much any time I see him and LC together in pvp is going to be a skip. That was really slow and really frustrating to face.

Unknown

Sandwichboy wrote:

I'm of the mind that he's totally worth spending HP on if for no other reason than the dev cycle seems packed enough to push any big nerf to him probably a long ways off. And good god, after that simulator fight with him, TGT and Luke Cage, pretty much any time I see him and LC together in pvp is going to be a skip. That was really slow and really frustrating to face.

He's certainly worth spending if you're still trying to improve your roster. The only issue that might limit his effectiveness is that is the average player too stupid to realize Iron Fist is a guy where even if you win, you still lose, as his black pretty much does at least enough damage to ensure anyone that isn't Thor or can true heal will need a health pack (and of course he can outright win with his black alone too), and note that if your team is Thor/true heal guy, you likely have no support while Iron Fist is an awesome support, so while you can withstand his black you have a nontrivial chance to lose to his purple, and unlike other characters (Loki, The Hood) that pose a threat to Thor/X Force, Iron Fist is strong enough to take an X Force. Still, people learned pretty quick back when Daken generated 2X60 strike tiles that was a guy you didn't fight in PvP without Magneto or Sentry unless you don't care about your health packs, and I think Iron Fist is far more consistent than even pre nerf Daken and unlike Daken, he also has skills that can potentially outright win a game whereas pre nerf Daken generally don't win games (but sure made you bleed for your wins).

OzarkBoatswain

In Fist Bump, I've found that Steve Rogers does well against Iron Fist. Steve can destroy his attack tile and stun him at the same time, then have a good protect tile on the board, nullifying any future attack tile.

Unknown

Sandwichboy wrote:

I'm of the mind that he's totally worth spending HP on if for no other reason than the dev cycle seems packed enough to push any big nerf to him probably a long ways off. And good god, after that simulator fight with him, TGT and Luke Cage, pretty much any time I see him and LC together in pvp is going to be a skip. That was really slow and really frustrating to face.

He's worth spending HP on. It's few and far between that something pops in up MPQ that scares people off from fighting someone in PVP. That's a serious statement.

And about him getting nerfed? It's down the pipeline. Months. Look at how long it took for Sentry to get nerfed. IMO X-Force will get nerfed/changed(or other 4* will be brought to his level) before Iron Fist gets nerfed.

Unknown

I used IF + XF + boosts for my final push. Even with only 2 purple, that thing is ridiculously fast.

NorthernPolarity

raisinbman wrote:

Sandwichboy wrote:

I'm of the mind that he's totally worth spending HP on if for no other reason than the dev cycle seems packed enough to push any big nerf to him probably a long ways off. And good god, after that simulator fight with him, TGT and Luke Cage, pretty much any time I see him and LC together in pvp is going to be a skip. That was really slow and really frustrating to face.

He's worth spending HP on. It's few and far between that something pops in up MPQ that scares people off from fighting someone in PVP. That's a serious statement.

And about him getting nerfed? It's down the pipeline. Months. Look at how long it took for Sentry to get nerfed. IMO X-Force will get nerfed/changed(or other 4* will be brought to his level) before Iron Fist gets nerfed.

Only worth spending HP on if you don't have xor. He is probably the best pairing with XF, and king of the 3* meta with BP if you don't have 4*s, but xor is still superior.

Unknown

Thor is only better than IF because people look at 16K HP and get scared for no reason. Let's have a generically useless featured hero + X Force + IF versus the same with X Force + Thor (note that IF plows the weak featured hero even faster than X Force, which creates a nasty scenario for health pack management if the featured isn't a loaner). Since IF can take an X Force, you have to go to either Surgical Strike or Power Surge + Smite. On the other hand, the IF team needs either Surgical Strike or IF purple, and the latter is a 2 match move versus either a 4 match or a 4+3 match. If X Force is in front then you can outright lose the game depending on which move the AI picks for green. If Thor is in front then your entire reason for picking Thor is just completely disassembled due to the -10 red AP alone. It doesn't matter if the opposing team has no red outlet, because your Thor has no purpose of even being there if you can't ever get a Smite going. Now you probably will still win because eventually the AI might do a purple and ignore a huge black match so that you can get your own Surgical Strike but this game is likely to drag on for a pretty long time. Even the color matchup is very bad because, ignoring any colors the featured may have, the Thor team has no purple so you can't deny purple, while the IF team has no blue/red so the AI will not bother with either of those colors. While that appears like a good thing, the huge disparity in speed (2 match for purple, 3+4 match for Thor) means you'll probably lose in a straight up race. Even with iso boosts that's still 2+3 match versus 2. Your other way of attacking this team will be racing to Surgical Strike, but that's a pointless comparison since it's hard to imagine any game where you can lose if you outraced the opponent to Surgical Strike, so while this works it's either not easily duplicable or if not, then that strategy will work regardless of what your opponent or who the other guy on your team is.

NorthernPolarity

Phantron wrote:

Thor is only better than IF because people look at 16K HP and get scared for no reason. Let's have a generically useless featured hero + X Force + IF versus the same with X Force + Thor (note that IF plows the weak featured hero even faster than X Force, which creates a nasty scenario for health pack management if the featured isn't a loaner). Since IF can take an X Force, you have to go to either Surgical Strike or Power Surge + Smite. On the other hand, the IF team needs either Surgical Strike or IF purple, and the latter is a 2 match move versus either a 4 match or a 4+3 match. If X Force is in front then you can outright lose the game depending on which move the AI picks for green. If Thor is in front then your entire reason for picking Thor is just completely disassembled due to the -10 red AP alone. It doesn't matter if the opposing team has no red outlet, because your Thor has no purpose of even being there if you can't ever get a Smite going. Now you probably will still win because eventually the AI might do a purple and ignore a huge black match so that you can get your own Surgical Strike but this game is likely to drag on for a pretty long time. Even the color matchup is very bad because, ignoring any colors the featured may have, the Thor team has no purple so you can't deny purple, while the IF team has no blue/red so the AI will not bother with either of those colors. While that appears like a good thing, the huge disparity in speed (2 match for purple, 3+4 match for Thor) means you'll probably lose in a straight up race. Even with iso boosts that's still 2+3 match versus 2. Your other way of attacking this team will be racing to Surgical Strike, but that's a pointless comparison since it's hard to imagine any game where you can lose if you outraced the opponent to Surgical Strike, so while this works it's either not easily duplicable or if not, then that strategy will work regardless of what your opponent or who the other guy on your team is.

Oh come on man. I know you don't like Thor moreso than the average guy (which I am fine with since I hate her), but saying that you can run XF / IF over XF / GT in an average PvP situation is just ridiculous. I'm going to hone in onto your "surgical on red" reasoning because that is precisely why XF / GT is better.

Here's how an IF / XF game would look: 5 purple and 6 black into surgical (5 purple generates ~6 black AP on average), dealing say 6k damage. Clear board of red, GT now has 12k more health. ..... now what? The board is cleared of red so further surgicals do like 3k damage max, you're left gathering a lot more AP to kill the remaining 12k health on GT, with that damned attack tile animation taking forever and wasting time. Here's what an XF / GT team would do. 12 black to surgical / XF IF out of the way. Surge, smite, done.

Your other way of attacking this team will be racing to Surgical Strike, but that's a pointless comparison since it's hard to imagine any game where you can lose if you outraced the opponent to Surgical Strike,

That's the thing though, XF / IF does NOT just win the game on surgical strike if its on red. That's the entire reason why 4ors 16k health is good: it's not that people are scared of it and can't take it down, it's that it takes so damn long to take down that even if 4or doesn't kill you, just the fact that you're taking twice as long to kill her than literally any other character in the game means that you don't want to fight her unless you have to. After facing 4or a couple of times with XHood and surgical on red, I know exactly how that matchup goes down, and I do not want to be the XHood having to slog through 16k HP on a surgical.

I mean just time the matches where you use XF / GT / featured vs an opposing XF / GT / Featured against XF / IF / featured vs an opposing XF / GT / Featured where the featured makes surgical not great and where GT is in front of XF. I guarantee you that they'll take at least twice as long due to IF's animation and not being able to 1 shot 4or with surge smite, and thats more than enough reason to easily run GT over IF. Not to mention that in any scaled PvE situation that matters, I'd love to see a non-4or based team composition struggle while 4or just surge/smites them to death trivially.

I could see a case for where if the featured was on a non useless Surgical color that IF might be comparable, but I still doubt it due to the attack tile animation and the HP disparity.