*** Wolverine (Patch) ***

Unknown

Anybody know what level I need to keep Spider-man at so a Max Patch still tanks yellow?

Unknown

At level 101 Spidey gets even on 52 yellow dmg like Patch. Mine was unfortunately already over that point

Unknown

finwe wrote:

At level 101 Spidey gets even on 52 yellow dmg like Patch. Mine was unfortunately already over that point

Thankss

Unknown

Not sure why people are dismissing 4/4/5 so easily

5 yellow has saved me so many times in PvP and PvE

Sure 5 green and 5 red are both insane together, but 5 green requires 6 open - which is not always available. Also if you haven't cleared pink you might screw yourself in the butt (unless you're running spidey)
5 red is also really nice, but taking advantage of Patch's icon being on everything will most likely mean that Patch is in front tanking - and gimping either is not ideal.

Unknown

noobpotato wrote:

Not sure why people are dismissing 4/4/5 so easily

5 yellow has saved me so many times in PvP and PvE

Sure 5 green and 5 red are both insane together, but 5 green requires 6 open - which is not always available. Also if you haven't cleared pink you might screw yourself in the butt (unless you're running spidey)
5 red is also really nice, but taking advantage of Patch's icon being on everything will most likely mean that Patch is in front tanking - and gimping either is not ideal.

Of course there is no wrong build, and 5 in yellow is definitely awesome. But 4 in green and red just seems suboptimal.

The difference between 3 in green and 5 in green is double the amount of strike tiles (3 to 6, 100% increase) whereas going to 4 in green gives you one extra strike tile (total of 4, 33% increase).

Same thing with red, going from 3 to 5 in red more than doubles the damage done (119% damage increase). But going from 3 to 4 is only a 38% increase.

I think it's easiest to see our perceived problem with 4/4/5 when looking at his red skill. Going to 4 in red increases damage so of course that is good. But choosing not to go to 5 because you're specifically going 4 in green seems like a waste because all that gives you is one extra strike tile from green (33% increase in damage output from strike tiles). While any increase is good it's not so much when compared to the 59% increase in damage from taking red from 4 to 5.

You could make a similar argument going the other way as well.

Apologies in advance if any of the math is wrong, someone will correct me.

Phaserhawk

noobpotato wrote:

Not sure why people are dismissing 4/4/5 so easily

5 yellow has saved me so many times in PvP and PvE

Sure 5 green and 5 red are both insane together, but 5 green requires 6 open - which is not always available. Also if you haven't cleared pink you might screw yourself in the butt (unless you're running spidey)
5 red is also really nice, but taking advantage of Patch's icon being on everything will most likely mean that Patch is in front tanking - and gimping either is not ideal.

I have found if you are running Patch 3/5/5, you almost have to pair him with IM40. Here's why....a 5/5/3 IM40 won't compete with anything. You have unibeam as a back up, IM40 can tank, and he will get yellow and blue why Wolvie can pop out here and there. IM40 goes offline, you generate up to 9 red, 9 blue, and 6 green. All of a sudden most of the tiles are Patch's and bam green and red hit hard, assuming anyone's alive, Patch tanks with his super heal, IM comes back online and if you have enough blue he finishes off the rest.

Unknown

Okay guys, I need some advice on my Patch.

My first Patch is already at 5/3/5.

My second Patch is now 3/5/3.

For my secondary Patch, which build is more recommended? 5/5/3 or 3/5/5?

4/5/4 seems to be a very poor choice. I wonder is 5/5/3 or 3/5/5 more recommended for a secondary Patch.

Polares

mechgouki wrote:

Okay guys, I need some advice on my Patch.

My first Patch is already at 5/3/5.

My second Patch is now 3/5/3.

For my secondary Patch, which build is more recommended? 5/5/3 or 3/5/5?

4/5/4 seems to be a very poor choice. I wonder is 5/5/3 or 3/5/5 more recommended for a secondary Patch.

If you really want to have two Patch configurations I would go for a 5/5/3 and a 3/5/5. The most agresive and the most safe bet for the character. I don't like the 5/3/5, it is not that versatile (I prefer the 4/4/5 build to this one).

I have a 4/4/5 Patch and I doubt to respec him 3/5/5 (the 5/5/3 is too agressive for me ). My problem is that most of the time my Patch only claims red and green tiles, and there are not that many tiles of those colors when I have the 14 reds (becuase I have to match them myself to gain AP), so for the moment he remains 4/4/5, versatily over power in red for the moment....

Unknown

Thanks, I am now seriously considering 3/5/5.

5/5/3 seems too squishy.

I cannot agree with you, 4 in red seems to be a very bad choice. The damage is only worth a damn at Lv5, and you either raise it to 5 or leave it at 3. Having it at 4 doesn't make it good.

The 5/3/5 is nice. Only problem is the enemy strike tiles is really sometimes too much to handle. I personally prefer Green over Red, as 14 AP is too much, 9 AP is easy.

Phaserhawk

mechgouki wrote:

Thanks, I am now seriously considering 3/5/5.

5/5/3 seems too squishy.

I cannot agree with you, 4 in red seems to be a very bad choice. The damage is only worth a damn at Lv5, and you either raise it to 5 or leave it at 3. Having it at 4 doesn't make it good.

The 5/3/5 is nice. Only problem is the enemy strike tiles is really sometimes too much to handle. I personally prefer Green over Red, as 14 AP is too much, 9 AP is easy.

You can aruge leaving 4 in green and maybe 4 in yellow, but you are right if you have 4 into Red you may as well go 5 because 4 is poor AP to damage ratio here are the evaluations.

5/5/3---Max damage, but you are squishy due to strike tiles coming back, and you suck in long matches

5/3/5---More defensive than 5/5/3, you rely on your green, but you have basically nerfed your red and you really only have one active skill now. red dmage assuming 9 tiles per color
1 color (9 tiles):891 dmg, 2 color (18 tiles):1782, 3 color (27 tiles) 2673

3/5/5---The most defensive approach (IMO the best build) you still get all the direct max damage from green but you lose some damage from the strike tiles, however, you take less on the return, in addition, your red works very well even if you only have 1-2 sets of colors of tiles, assuming you always have 9 of each color at any time. 1 color (9 tiles):1944 dmg, 2 color (18 tiles):3888, 3 color (27 tiles) 5832.

Unknown

Allies I've found that work well, cover a majority of the color pie, don't force you to under-level a character, while letting Wolverine's red do a buttload of damage:

IM40 - Get yellow, self-stun IM40, kill someone
C.Magneto - As long as Magneto isn't buffed and placed correctly in character select, has identical tile red/yellow tile strength to Patch
Loki - Won't take as much advantage of his strike tile puking, but it still works
GSBW - Her green is much better, or you can use her purple to power up Patch's green for multiple blows / crit tiles.
Punisher - His red can be used for cheaper if you want to finish off a character, and his black is VERY, VERY, VERY good alongside Patch's strike tiles (and it isn't due for a nerf, coughMagnetizedProjectilecough)
Doctor Doom - Great color pie filling, but I'm not fond of him given how every other character has a blue and/or black I'd rather be using. Punisher's Black, C.Mag's blue, and Loki's black.

Sidenote: I'm sad Psylocke has red as her primary, because if she didn't, I'd totally run her for her black alone instead of, say, Punisher. The immediate attack tile is super useful, and only needs two matches. Also Black Panther would be great, but yellow is his primary damage, and would encounter the same issue as Peter Parker.

mischiefmaker

Kamahl-FoK wrote:

Allies I've found that work well, cover a majority of the color pie, don't force you to under-level a character, while letting Wolverine's red do a buttload of damage: <snip>

Sidenote: I'm sad Psylocke has red as her primary, because if she didn't, I'd totally run her for her black alone instead of, say, Punisher. The immediate attack tile is super useful, and only needs two matches. Also Black Panther would be great, but yellow is his primary damage, and would encounter the same issue as Peter Parker.

Ooh interesting. I'll have to try out GSBW with Patch once the Magneto changes hit. I've been looking for an excuse to level her anyway.

I think Psylocke will actually pair pretty well with Patch. Red is his secondary color, so you can go to 121 on Psylocke without her taking red, which I don't think will **** her much: about 800 health, 8 damage in black, maybe 150 or so damage off red/black and 30 off the attack/strike tiles, something like that. That seems pretty close to full level, though maybe you lose a bit of the intimidation factor of wall-to-wall 141s, I dunno.

Black Panther though, we'll have to see. He'd top out at 101 if you want Patch taking yellow, which would be about 2k hp (ouch), 14 damage in blue, 12 damage in black, something like 40 strike tile damage (still 100ish), 35 protect tile (still 60-70), and maybe 2800 damage for black instead of the currently estimated 4k. That's a pretty big hit on paper, but I'd still give him strong consideration as a Patch running mate -- decent yellow powers are hard to come by.

Arogntbastrd

Phaserhawk wrote:

mechgouki wrote:

Thanks, I am now seriously considering 3/5/5.

5/5/3 seems too squishy.

I cannot agree with you, 4 in red seems to be a very bad choice. The damage is only worth a damn at Lv5, and you either raise it to 5 or leave it at 3. Having it at 4 doesn't make it good.

The 5/3/5 is nice. Only problem is the enemy strike tiles is really sometimes too much to handle. I personally prefer Green over Red, as 14 AP is too much, 9 AP is easy.

You can aruge leaving 4 in green and maybe 4 in yellow, but you are right if you have 4 into Red you may as well go 5 because 4 is poor AP to damage ratio here are the evaluations.

5/5/3---Max damage, but you are squishy due to strike tiles coming back, and you suck in long matches

5/3/5---More defensive than 5/5/3, you rely on your green, but you have basically nerfed your red and you really only have one active skill now. red dmage assuming 9 tiles per color
1 color (9 tiles):891 dmg, 2 color (18 tiles):1782, 3 color (27 tiles) 2673

3/5/5---The most defensive approach (IMO the best build) you still get all the direct max damage from green but you lose some damage from the strike tiles, however, you take less on the return, in addition, your red works very well even if you only have 1-2 sets of colors of tiles, assuming you always have 9 of each color at any time. 1 color (9 tiles):1944 dmg, 2 color (18 tiles):3888, 3 color (27 tiles) 5832.

I run 5 green and yellow. Having a 3 star always at full health is useful so you don't have to mess with health packs.

Tips for a 5 green build:

Plan your rage: 5 green doesn't self destruct if you give any thought to when it's used. Don't use it right away blindly. Make sure you have a purple match before berserker rage and you should be fine. Most unbuffed characters won't survive red after 5 rank green, regardless of red rank. Also if patch is last man standing his red is usually enough to down regular characters even at 3.

Classic storm: when against, don't hit anyone with berserker rage until she's dead or until berserker rage will kill her. Otherwise she just slaps your whole team in the face really hard. When using her, Windstorm is an awesome follow up bc it's AOE and stun. Berserker rage highest hp, windstorm new highest hp to stun them. This combo will usually down the enemy you targeted at the start of the match leaving the strongest survivor stunned and the weakest survivor heavily damaged. If you can match purple after great, if not storm slaps them right back for hurting you. Blue tanks or ap generators make for a nice third.

Playing from behind: if you've already lost a guy or you're facing high level/ buffed characters berserker rage just reduces your "clock" to steal a MTG term. Regardless of green rank, mathematically, going blow for blow with enemies with more hp is a losing proposition. Save berserker rage until the initial damage or subsequent match will down an enemy or until you can stun. For this scenario red 5 is superior however if you can stun those extra strike tiles will help down a dangerous threat quickly.

OBW: run 5 black, berserker rage, giggle. Ap ramping/ deprivation and strike double tap is never not good. Only problem is to get the double tap benefit she needs to be up front for purple black and blue.

There are lots of other combos already discussed, so I won't rehash those. 5 green requires more strategy to play but if you're going for pure dps it's hard to beat. Without pieces to put around patch 5 green can be tough. 5 red is safer and easier to stick anywhere but your build should be based on your play style and who you can run with him. 5 in both is just overkill

Puritas

I'm pretty sure the only appropriate strategy for Wolverine ever is "dur hur hur hur hur hur hur I'M THE BEST THERE IS AT WHAT I DO AND WHAT I DO AIN'T PRETTY"


"BUB"

Unknown

I've been running 3y for a long time and 5y is way overrated. He is pretty much never going to die in PvP unless he takes a one hit kill move or your entire team is wiped out even at 3y. It's totally irrelevent on PvP defense because he'll either die in one turn when he's the last guy left or he'll get stunlocked. It matters for PvE more but an awful a lot of PvE guys have one hit kill moves at level 230 too. Looking at the enemy lineup, regen will only come into play if you're fighting against Moonstone (Gravity Warp) or The Hood (Intimidation), and Gravity Warp is generally defended by Spider-sense. Everything else either does too much or too little for healing factor to really matter.

NorthernPolarity

Phantron wrote:

I've been running 3y for a long time and 5y is way overrated. He is pretty much never going to die in PvP unless he takes a one hit kill move or your entire team is wiped out even at 3y. It's totally irrelevent on PvP defense because he'll either die in one turn when he's the last guy left or he'll get stunlocked. It matters for PvE more but an awful a lot of PvE guys have one hit kill moves at level 230 too. Looking at the enemy lineup, regen will only come into play if you're fighting against Moonstone (Gravity Warp) or The Hood (Intimidation), and Gravity Warp is generally defended by Spider-sense. Everything else either does too much or too little for healing factor to really matter.

Is this comment based off of how Spidey's yellow would heal Patch to full anyways? I'm wondering if not going yellow on him would require to health pack Patch a lot more frequently, making him not as good for sustained play sessions if you aren't running Spidey with him (post-nerf, for instance).

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Phantron wrote:

I've been running 3y for a long time and 5y is way overrated. He is pretty much never going to die in PvP unless he takes a one hit kill move or your entire team is wiped out even at 3y. It's totally irrelevent on PvP defense because he'll either die in one turn when he's the last guy left or he'll get stunlocked. It matters for PvE more but an awful a lot of PvE guys have one hit kill moves at level 230 too. Looking at the enemy lineup, regen will only come into play if you're fighting against Moonstone (Gravity Warp) or The Hood (Intimidation), and Gravity Warp is generally defended by Spider-sense. Everything else either does too much or too little for healing factor to really matter.

Is this comment based off of how Spidey's yellow would heal Patch to full anyways? I'm wondering if not going yellow on him would require to health pack Patch a lot more frequently, making him not as good for sustained play sessions if you aren't running Spidey with him (post-nerf, for instance).

Not really because your other two guys, if there are no healers, will still take way more damage than Patch overall. Let's say all your guys have 5K HP, and Patch regens 1K HP with healing factor 3. Let's say on an easy fight all your guys take 1K each, and on a nasty fight you take 3K each. Well on the easy fights Patch takes no damage after regen so it doesn't matter. On the hard fights, you end up with a 2K/2K/3K health distribution. So you probably use 2 health pack here (because another hard fight will wipe you out), and now you're looking at 5K/5K/3K. Even if you have back to back nasty fights, you'd end up with 2K/2K/1K after that assuming you didn't heal Patch earlier. At this point regardless of what health Patch is at, you're basically one nasty fight away from not being able to continue because your other two guys will still need 2 more medpacks so you used 4 out of 5. I've been running a Spiderman-less team for a while now and it's always the other two guys that will eat up all your health packs long before Patch needs them.

The only way this pattern breaks is if your Patch is tanking more than half of the colors because he's much stronger than the rest but then such a team is extremely vulnerable to Spiderman so it's got other problems too.

Also, as long as there are any non prologue events going on, if you need a heal with Patch, just take him to an all goons 230X3 mission. Unless you screwed up, he'll pretty much always emerge out of a fight with 100% health even without any healing, and you get some PvE points at the same time too.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Phantron wrote:

The only way this pattern breaks is if your Patch is tanking more than half of the colors because he's much stronger than the rest but then such a team is extremely vulnerable to Spiderman so it's got other problems too.

Also, as long as there are any non prologue events going on, if you need a heal with Patch, just take him to an all goons 230X3 mission. Unless you screwed up, he'll pretty much always emerge out of a fight with 100% health even without any healing, and you get some PvE points at the same time too.

Okay I think this is why we have a such disparagement on 535 vs 445. I run Patch with either Punisher or Hulk - so he tanks 2/3rds of my colors - and why I find that build infinitely more useful for me.
If I switch off and stop using him as my main tank, I'll post some more feedback on 5/5/3.

Phaserhawk

I'm trying to determing as of 03/06/2014 What is the best lineup with Patch but I want one without Spider-man. All thoughts are welcomed, but here is my opinion.

Spider-man -- NO, because NO, I want to get rid of that crutch
The Punisher --NO (They compete for too many colors and Punisher's Green doesn't jive with Patch's)
Ragnarok -- NO they just don't work together
BWGS -- Share too many colors, she costs too much to do anything with him
The Yes' and Maybes
Daredevil -- He just doesn't work, and the Red's fight
=================
Loki -- He combo's well with Patch's Green and Red, he disrupts the board, but he's squishy
Hulk -- While the share two colors, Hulk can be a Green battery
IM40-- He combo's well with Patch's Red as IM40 can go offline, they only compete 1 color, and IM40 at the very least can generate red and green for Patch
Magneto -- They share one color, which really isn't much of an issue, Magneto can do insane damage with Patch and can overwrite the strike tiles given with his blue.
Black Panther -- For the sole fact he does not compete for any colors
Thor Modern -- Don't know, too new, but does what regular Thor does, works, but not optimal
Psylocke -- kind of
The Hood -- He works well, they don't compete and he steals AP
Dr. Doom -- They work because they don't fight, and Doom's Demon's love Strike Tiles

My top non Spider-man
===============
1. Patch--IM40--Magneto (Best Offensive, Best Combo)
2. Patch--Hood--Black Panther (Best Defensive)
3. Patch--Loki--(whoever) (Good Combo)

Unknown

It's not a viable option for me yet either as she's not a high enough level yet, but I've played around with IW at five blue in the SHIELD training and prologue, and she's a good way to nullify the negative impacts of Berzerker Rage. You can lock down all of the purple strike tiles with force bubbles which makes them inactive, and it also creates a beefy defense tile in case some of the bubbles get popped. Not the most efficient combo, but one that's fun to play with.