*** Rocket and Groot (Most Wanted)***

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  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    ark123 wrote:
    Yeah he's like blade to me in the sense that he's good enough and fun enough to play that I want to have him maxed. I haven't fought a maxed one yet but it feels like if yellow fire off after a blue it's probably lights out, and green can do a LOT of damage.

    Also It seems to me like the only big leap from 4 to 5 is on the blue skill, and that there's no clear cut best build for yellow and green. Though maxed yellow probably has the biggest chance for a "throw phone against wall" reaction since even if he's the only character left alive his abilities gel well enough that he's a definite threat by himself.

    Yeah, I'm not completely sold on his yellow, but since we don't know the other values at covers 3 and 4 not sure if it needs to be 5. From what I can see, they based the yellow on the assumption of 9 TU's which is why you heal up to 100% at 25%. Lvl 2 appears to be half of level 5, so my gut says lvl 3 with 9 TU's would take you to 50% or 60% of your health from 25%, at lvl 4 it will probably take you to 75% to 80% of your max health from 25%. Playing him I never really found myself using his blue, but man when the AI used it against me it really hurts. His blue does have a high chance of going off because you can place it, so just for that it's pretty much worth going 5 blue, I'm just not sure what to do for yellow and green.
  • GrumpySmurf1002GrumpySmurf1002 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    Yeah, I'm not completely sold on his yellow, but since we don't know the other values at covers 3 and 4 not sure if it needs to be 5. From what I can see, they based the yellow on the assumption of 9 TU's which is why you heal up to 100% at 25%. Lvl 2 appears to be half of level 5, so my gut says lvl 3 with 9 TU's would take you to 50% or 60% of your health from 25%, at lvl 4 it will probably take you to 75% to 80% of your max health from 25%. Playing him I never really found myself using his blue, but man when the AI used it against me it really hurts. His blue does have a high chance of going off because you can place it, so just for that it's pretty much worth going 5 blue, I'm just not sure what to do for yellow and green.

    I'm inclined to do 3/5/5, simply because his yellow might actually have more value underpowered. You still destroy all TU regardless, so taking him only back to 50% gives you a better chance of re-launching a big board shaker during a match.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    Yeah, I'm not completely sold on his yellow, but since we don't know the other values at covers 3 and 4 not sure if it needs to be 5. From what I can see, they based the yellow on the assumption of 9 TU's which is why you heal up to 100% at 25%. Lvl 2 appears to be half of level 5, so my gut says lvl 3 with 9 TU's would take you to 50% or 60% of your health from 25%, at lvl 4 it will probably take you to 75% to 80% of your max health from 25%. Playing him I never really found myself using his blue, but man when the AI used it against me it really hurts. His blue does have a high chance of going off because you can place it, so just for that it's pretty much worth going 5 blue, I'm just not sure what to do for yellow and green.

    I'm inclined to do 3/5/5, simply because his yellow might actually have more value underpowered. You still destroy all TU regardless, so taking him only back to 50% gives you a better chance of re-launching a big board shaker during a match.

    Diminishing returns every time you use it though, because only the top of the board will contain TUs unless you're using another board shaker.
  • edited December 2014
    onimus wrote:
    I think this is D3's solution to give the veterans something to play for. Adding new 3 stars wasn't really helping veterans because they already had their teams set and new characters were merely a new spice, rather than a way to replace their entrenched teams.

    Now that more 4 stars are coming out, they are forcing veterans to transition again, creating a new dynamic that I imagine they hope will spurn those from quitting, now that there is a new transition to go through.

    I remember the exhilaration of entering the 3 star phase, and I kind of miss that feeling of "Oh my god, yes! I won 2 3* covers."

    We'll see if they are able to revive that feeling in the vets as the game moves forward.

    Everyone is comparing 3 stars to Xforce and wondering why he is so much more powerful than the 3 stars. Honestly, 4 stars are looked at merely as more expensive 3 stars right now.

    But no one is doing that when comparing 2 stars to 3 stars. No one is wondering why Patch is so much better than Astonishing Wolverine. He just is.

    That is what they appear to be doing with 4 stars now.

    You have fairly good points but just forgot a thing:

    even if "slowly" (and I dont think a couple 4* covers every two and a half days is slow), anyone on that "new transition" can pretty much brute force to 1300 score with little HP expendure (if done correctly even with no cost but no gain also). hell if you have, like 4~6 good 3* maxed you can do that. and there are few heroes that can be that prize, for 1300 or #1, only x-force, IW, fury and now thoress. so its kinda easy to complete fast those 4*.

    if you look at how many 3* there are rotating every pvp and the fact that you can get at most 4 covers if you do REALLY well (something that a 2* transition player surely cant), and then wait forever for that hero come back as pvp reward again to try to complete it.

    This. Takes. Forever.

    now realistically speaking, as a transition player myself, with the current time shards system its easier to get at least top 100 with less than 600 points, but then you will not get into a top 100 alliance so only one cover at a time. if it took forever when getting 4 covers (1 of each color at top 2~5 plus the alliance one) imagine getting ONE AT A TIME.

    when I first saw this new system I knew people would complain because it got easier, but its NOT as easier as they think it is when you are just getting the first 3* heroes to complete. after a loooooong time you will have a couple 3* and then you can get at least two covers by yourself and get into an alliance for a third, but it Still. Takes. Forever.


    now to talk about R&G, pair them with mags mn that can generate like 10 blue AP with 9 purple (doing two 5-matches with some luck) and you are ready to deal MASSIVE damage that has two things over sentry: does not deal self damage and cant be removed by one match like that single tile from the tormented dark avenger.
  • ark123 wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    Yeah, I'm not completely sold on his yellow, but since we don't know the other values at covers 3 and 4 not sure if it needs to be 5. From what I can see, they based the yellow on the assumption of 9 TU's which is why you heal up to 100% at 25%. Lvl 2 appears to be half of level 5, so my gut says lvl 3 with 9 TU's would take you to 50% or 60% of your health from 25%, at lvl 4 it will probably take you to 75% to 80% of your max health from 25%. Playing him I never really found myself using his blue, but man when the AI used it against me it really hurts. His blue does have a high chance of going off because you can place it, so just for that it's pretty much worth going 5 blue, I'm just not sure what to do for yellow and green.

    I'm inclined to do 3/5/5, simply because his yellow might actually have more value underpowered. You still destroy all TU regardless, so taking him only back to 50% gives you a better chance of re-launching a big board shaker during a match.

    Diminishing returns every time you use it though, because only the top of the board will contain TUs unless you're using another board shaker.

    Another board shaker like his already built in Green?

    Lets face it, if you aren't X-Force or X-Force compatable you aren't running in PvP. Grocket is for PvE, and he will excel there due to high HP, and near invincibility under player control. Match all the green, use yellow at 25% health, then use green to re up TU tiles for next time you are at 25%. 4/5/4 all the way.
  • yeah, he will be used for PvE mostly. board shaker, true healing, strikes to deal massive damage... even if every power takes some time to cast, still a good way to reduce his HP so you can heal back and then throw everything at once (yellow -> green -> blue).
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nonce, 3 green is 121 per tile at max level.
  • IceIXIceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 3,385 Site Admin
    Noticed Level 4 and 5 for I Am Groot were missing their effects. Added those to the OP.
  • Is there a good argument against going 445 with Groot? I can see the rationale behind 454, but for those like me who like to rock and roll with 5 blue, 445 seems like a decent build to me.

    btw, did anyone else laugh at Rocket's sassy attitude he gave to the Hood? He called him a Z-lister.. hah.
  • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    IceIX wrote:
    Noticed Level 4 and 5 for I Am Groot were missing their effects. Added those to the OP.
    It's possible to guess at the scaling based off the ratio of the base values to the max one, but for ease of comparison, would it be possible to get max level numbers for powers when you do data dumps like this? Or at least at 3 vs 5 covers at max level
  • JathroJathro Posts: 323 Mover and Shaker
    Spoit wrote:
    IceIX wrote:
    Noticed Level 4 and 5 for I Am Groot were missing their effects. Added those to the OP.
    It's possible to guess at the scaling based off the ratio of the base values to the max one, but for ease of comparison, would it be possible to get max level numbers for powers when you do data dumps like this? Or at least at 3 vs 5 covers at max level
    http://marvelpuzzlequest.wikia.com/wiki/Rocket_&_Groot_(Most_Wanted)

    can't confirm the info is 100% accurate, but...
  • ShionSinX wrote:
    yeah, he will be used for PvE mostly. board shaker, true healing, strikes to deal massive damage... even if every power takes some time to cast, still a good way to reduce his HP so you can heal back and then throw everything at once (yellow -> green -> blue).

    Daken Patch Grocket is an amazing climbing team for pvp. I'd wager you can easily get to 800 with it, since adding board shake what doesn't kill strike tiles to daken patch can lead to pretty obscene scenarios.

    You can even switch daken and groot around to decide who tanks blue (he always tanks yellow in this team)
  • MarcusGravesMarcusGraves Posts: 494 Mover and Shaker
    camichan wrote:
    Is there a good argument against going 445 with Groot? I can see the rationale behind 454, but for those like me who like to rock and roll with 5 blue, 445 seems like a decent build to me.

    I really think blue is his must max power, its just too powerful not to, everything else is fine depending on your preference, there's really nothing bad to say about 4/4/5, 3/5/5 or 5/3/5 each one has ups and downs
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    camichan wrote:
    Is there a good argument against going 445 with Groot? I can see the rationale behind 454, but for those like me who like to rock and roll with 5 blue, 445 seems like a decent build to me.

    I really think blue is his must max power, its just too powerful not to, everything else is fine depending on your preference, there's really nothing bad to say about 4/4/5, 3/5/5 or 5/3/5 each one has ups and downs

    Assuming 10 TU tiles are matched, 3 yellow heals 4k, 4 yellow heals 5k, and 5 yellow heals 8k.

    3 green deals 1080 dmg, 4 green deals 1305 dmg, 5 green deals 2145 dmg.

    I don't think theres any argument for 4/4/5: the jump from 3->4 for both abilities are marginal compared to the jump from 4->5.

    The thing you have to ask yourself about Groot is what are you bringing him on your team for? His role seems to be a support tank / board clearer, so blue and yellow seem to be his most important abilities. Assuming he's at say 1k-2k health, 3 yellow would only bring him up to 5-6k health. It's a decent life total, but still relatively squishy. 5 yellow on the other hand, heals him back up to full, which seems really good.

    5/3/5 is probably going to end up being the accepted build. Green is somewhat tinykitty at 3, but there are a lot more decent greens than there are good blues, and even so, groot's green is relatively unimportant compared to his yellow and blue.
  • No one is taking into account that his Green boosts his Yellow. You use Yellow once, all the TUs are gone. You need a board shakeup to bring them back. What better way than breaking 13 tiles (minimum) and doing 2000 damage.

    If Groot is on my team I want him to do 2 things. A) Never ever die, and 2) Shake up the board. Strike tiles are nice, and 4 Blue is absolutely nessasary because of 2 turn CD, but I'm not going to prioritize blue against most teams, it's a recipe for disaster if you are giving away green, red, and black usually. If I happen to get 11 blue, great, I'll take my 700 ish strike tiles. I don't need that to be 1000 to accomplish my goals with Groot. Since 4 Blue is a must that leaves 4/5/4, or 5/4/4, and I'd personally rather have more board shakeup.

    My experience with Groot while he was boosted with 2 yellow covers was that he's basically immortal. He catches the big bullets, and then uses yellow to heal, and then uses green to bring back the TUs so he can catch the next big bullet. I want this, especially in PvE, where I think Groot lives. So I want 4 Yellow covers. Hence, 4/5/4.

    Also, My desired team of Blade, Groot, T4or isn't going to be using Groot's Blue, ever, so...

    (Also I'm just going to call him Groot, faster and less dumb than Grocket).
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lerysh wrote:
    No one is taking into account that his Green boosts his Yellow. You use Yellow once, all the TUs are gone. You need a board shakeup to bring them back. What better way than breaking 13 tiles (minimum) and doing 2000 damage.

    If Groot is on my team I want him to do 2 things. A) Never ever die, and 2) Shake up the board. Strike tiles are nice, and 4 Blue is absolutely nessasary because of 2 turn CD, but I'm not going to prioritize blue against most teams, it's a recipe for disaster if you are giving away green, red, and black usually. If I happen to get 11 blue, great, I'll take my 700 ish strike tiles. I don't need that to be 1000 to accomplish my goals with Groot. Since 4 Blue is a must that leaves 4/5/4, or 5/4/4, and I'd personally rather have more board shakeup.

    My experience with Groot while he was boosted with 2 yellow covers was that he's basically immortal. He catches the big bullets, and then uses yellow to heal, and then uses green to bring back the TUs so he can catch the next big bullet. I want this, especially in PvE, where I think Groot lives. So I want 4 Yellow covers. Hence, 4/5/4.

    Also, My desired team of Blade, Groot, T4or isn't going to be using Groot's Blue, ever, so...

    (Also I'm just going to call him Groot, faster and less dumb than Grocket).

    I 100% agree blue must be at least 4, the 2 CD is so important, going to level 5? I'm not so sure, yes the extra tile is nice, but you can also look at it as more chance for 1 to be destroyed. And yellow needs to be at least 4 so that actually leaves you with

    5/4/4, 5/3/5, 4/5/4, 4/4/5.

    Now lets look at combos. Lets say you use I Got a Plan, and once resolved you launch Blammo.

    5/4/4---would do 2217 dmg
    5/3/5---would do 2133 dmg
    4/5/4---would do 3137 dmg
    4/4/5---would do 2529 dmg

    now on paper 4/5/4 does the most damage but it is initial damage, if you resolve I got a Plan and do match 3's before getting green, then it will outstrip the damage of 4/5/4 in just two matches, however if you lose even 1 strike tile between the resolving of I Got a Plan within the first two turns of it being out, you are better off with having only 4 in I Got A Plan. (although you could just as well lose a tile in either scenario and you would be better off with I Got A Plan at 5)

    If I was only going to use Groot in PvE I would probably go 3/5/5 or 4/5/4. If he's featured in PvP, and say I"m running him with a maxed Leveled X-Force and Thora, you would never use blue or green, so you would probably go 5 for sure in yellow, and because nothing is going to stay on the board anyway it won't matter. If you only run him with 3*'s well then he gets a bit more interesting, I would probably go 5/4/4 or 5/3/5. You still have Call of the Storm. Since pretty much though everything revolves around X-Force in PvP, it's hard to justify anthing other than 5/3/5 or 5/4/4. So where's the middle ground? Unfortunately Groot doesn't really allow middle ground. In PvE you don't need his yellow as much, but in PvP you would especially for extended pushes, but....how often am I realistically going to play Groot in PvP unless he's featured? Very little, I would maybe use him with a Groot/Daken/X-Force for early PvP, but at high levels he's a no go, so that has me leaning more towards a PvE build. I would add him to my Falcon/Daken/Blade triumverate, as he would rotate well, and there I would want his Green maxed, so that leaves me with 4/5/4 as probably the most optimal build in PvE, and it won't be terrible in PvP, as he will still have his damage portion, he just won't heal as much, but still enough for extending pushes in early PvP or if he's featured.
  • ark123 wrote:
    Daken Patch Grocket is an amazing climbing team for pvp. I'd wager you can easily get to 800 with it.)

    It is... as long as one of them are the featured characters or you're doing Simulator. Otherwise it's 2 of the above + Featured and I'd probably alternate Daken and Groot with Patch (the only unconditional healer) the only regular.

    Still, you'd normally still run with Daken and Patch because Berzerker Rage and Pheramone Rage synergise so well.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Does Rocket/Groot not have accelerated healing? I've noticed he doesn't seem to heal like Blade/Hulk/Spidey/Daken etc, considering his yellow shows him as a healer I have to wonder why not?
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lerysh wrote:
    No one is taking into account that his Green boosts his Yellow. You use Yellow once, all the TUs are gone. You need a board shakeup to bring them back. What better way than breaking 13 tiles (minimum) and doing 2000 damage.

    If Groot is on my team I want him to do 2 things. A) Never ever die, and 2) Shake up the board. Strike tiles are nice, and 4 Blue is absolutely nessasary because of 2 turn CD, but I'm not going to prioritize blue against most teams, it's a recipe for disaster if you are giving away green, red, and black usually. If I happen to get 11 blue, great, I'll take my 700 ish strike tiles. I don't need that to be 1000 to accomplish my goals with Groot. Since 4 Blue is a must that leaves 4/5/4, or 5/4/4, and I'd personally rather have more board shakeup.

    My experience with Groot while he was boosted with 2 yellow covers was that he's basically immortal. He catches the big bullets, and then uses yellow to heal, and then uses green to bring back the TUs so he can catch the next big bullet. I want this, especially in PvE, where I think Groot lives. So I want 4 Yellow covers. Hence, 4/5/4.

    Also, My desired team of Blade, Groot, T4or isn't going to be using Groot's Blue, ever, so...

    (Also I'm just going to call him Groot, faster and less dumb than Grocket).

    By your logic you would want Groot to be 3/5/5. I don't see 4/5/4 as viable at all: the difference between 3 and 4 yellow is 4k vs 5k health for 10 TU tiles I believe, whereas the difference between 4 and 5 blue is 33% more strike tile strength (an extra 300 damage worth of strike tiles I think). Here's the thing though: if you want Groot to be a semi-risky board shaker, then 3 yellow is better than 4 yellow as it lowers the hp gained, and therefore the amount of dmg he needs to take before you can use yellow again. 1k heal is not going to make a big difference on the outcome of your game, while 300 more dmg in strike tiles might matter a lot more. Also if you want him to never ever die, then 5 yellow is a lot safer I would imagine. 3 yellow is probably good enough, but its objectively riskier than having him at 5 yellow for obvious reasons.

    I see Groot more as a safer, cast his yellow once at the beginning of each match after retreat tanking and then let him facetank everything, without really expecting the enemy to do enough dmg to force his yellow off again. In this case, the board clear for his yellow is irrelevant since you aren't really casting it more than once per match. I think it's going to be rare when you use the yellow multiple times per match, and not enough turns have passed for the TUs to regenerate.

    I think 5/3/5 and 3/5/5 are both acceptable depending on how you want to use him. I don't see any merit in a 4 yellow build, so the only build left is 5/4/4, which seems worse than 5/3/5.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    Does Rocket/Groot not have accelerated healing? I've noticed he doesn't seem to heal like Blade/Hulk/Spidey/Daken etc, considering his yellow shows him as a healer I have to wonder why not?

    I Am Groot accelerates healing
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