*** Rocket and Groot (Most Wanted)***

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  • eidehuaeidehua Age Unconfirmed Posts: 521 Critical Contributor
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    locked wrote:
    Alright. My Groot is maxed, 4/4/5. Have a green cover in cache. Since it's true that in PvP he doesn't combo well with either X-Force or 4or, it's logical to optimize for PvE. I will run the 4/4/5 some more (my favourite team with him so far is Blade/LT and I even still found Grocket's green decent in that comp when not having enough for CTS) and then likely try 3/5/5. He's buffed in the current PvE so he will tank all his colours which will likely help test his healing.

    Yeah I'm torn on him, after facing off against him in Simulator where he was 5/5/5 I can honestly say that maxed yellow kicked my tinykitty, I would get him low then cascade into yellow, boom back to full health. I Got a Plan was obviously the easiest to deal with and if I was to optimize him for PvP I would go 5/5/3. Sure you wont' get green to go very often, but his blue is so random and easily destroyed that not sure it's worth it, but as we've stated he is more of a PvE beast, the times I have used Blammo I have been always happy, it's a great skill, in fact it's probably the second best single target green in the game just behind X-Force.

    How often have you gotten blue to resolve? And please please post after some findings

    Blue almost always resolves when you use it since you can place it. That's the skill I love about Rocket and Groot
  • So my grocket is currently at 4/5/4. In response to phaserhawk the blue almost always resolves when you place it due to it being a targeted countdown tile. as to it resolving vs me? rarely if I am honest but when it does its pretty brutal at high levels. Those strike tiles are huge.

    I am having a very hard time deciding how I want to build him. I absolutely love his green it does decent damage but the board shake is amazing. especially when you have strike tiles on the board. Rocket will never hit friendly strike tiles though groot can slam them if they are in the middle of the board. this means that your strike tiles will survive the initial blast and do their damage on any subsequent cascades. Because of this I run him with ldaken and blade which wrecks pve nodes pretty well and sustainablely because blades tanks nothing in that team. the only problem is you are not covering yellow and red(though you don't want to match red because pretty quickly every red tile becomes a friendly strike tile) and the anti synergy of wanting to match blue with ldaken on your team. but I will say with a resolved blue I do a ton of damage on one green triggering(I also generally save green here in order to get more rocket shots and maybe multiple casts after blue resolves) sometimes 6-8k damage from the cast and all the cascades, after a resolved blue each match three is around 1-3k damage.

    All this makes me want to build 3/5/5 but then you really will miss that heal. Only healing to half or so after a passive trigger means that you are vulnerable to a nuke which can mean a downed grocket is inevitable after 3 or 4 matches. All said I think I might lean towards a 5/3/5 build if I continue to focus on him a strike tile enabler. Still not confidant on that though as I really like the damage of 5 green.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    locked wrote:
    Alright. My Groot is maxed, 4/4/5. Have a green cover in cache. Since it's true that in PvP he doesn't combo well with either X-Force or 4or, it's logical to optimize for PvE. I will run the 4/4/5 some more (my favourite team with him so far is Blade/LT and I even still found Grocket's green decent in that comp when not having enough for CTS) and then likely try 3/5/5. He's buffed in the current PvE so he will tank all his colours which will likely help test his healing.

    Yeah I'm torn on him, after facing off against him in Simulator where he was 5/5/5 I can honestly say that maxed yellow kicked my tinykitty, I would get him low then cascade into yellow, boom back to full health. I Got a Plan was obviously the easiest to deal with and if I was to optimize him for PvP I would go 5/5/3. Sure you wont' get green to go very often, but his blue is so random and easily destroyed that not sure it's worth it, but as we've stated he is more of a PvE beast, the times I have used Blammo I have been always happy, it's a great skill, in fact it's probably the second best single target green in the game just behind X-Force.

    How often have you gotten blue to resolve? And please please post after some findings

    Optimizing for PvP is irrelevant. The only time you'd ever use him in PvP is when he's featured, and thats what, once a month? Optimize for PvE, where it seems like 5/3/5 is the way to go. I was holding out hope for 3/5/5 being a viable build, but it seems like you do need the heals after all. The green can only ever be average (max level, 2.4k dmg for 10 ap and board clear isn't the greatest) at best, and the upgrade from 3->4 green is meh compared to 4->5 blue, so 5/3/5 seems superior.
  • If you use a strike tile ability at all it is almost never wrong to max it out because strike tile is the one ability where bigger numbers are always useful because it's very hard to overkill with strike tiles. Even the enemy level 395's super overkill version where it creates 4X650 or so, you can be sure they still get nearly the full value of these crazy inflated values against your characters. I think Threaten is literally the only strike tile ability in the game where overkill is possible.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    locked wrote:
    Alright. My Groot is maxed, 4/4/5. Have a green cover in cache. Since it's true that in PvP he doesn't combo well with either X-Force or 4or, it's logical to optimize for PvE. I will run the 4/4/5 some more (my favourite team with him so far is Blade/LT and I even still found Grocket's green decent in that comp when not having enough for CTS) and then likely try 3/5/5. He's buffed in the current PvE so he will tank all his colours which will likely help test his healing.

    Yeah I'm torn on him, after facing off against him in Simulator where he was 5/5/5 I can honestly say that maxed yellow kicked my tinykitty, I would get him low then cascade into yellow, boom back to full health. I Got a Plan was obviously the easiest to deal with and if I was to optimize him for PvP I would go 5/5/3. Sure you wont' get green to go very often, but his blue is so random and easily destroyed that not sure it's worth it, but as we've stated he is more of a PvE beast, the times I have used Blammo I have been always happy, it's a great skill, in fact it's probably the second best single target green in the game just behind X-Force.

    How often have you gotten blue to resolve? And please please post after some findings

    Optimizing for PvP is irrelevant. The only time you'd ever use him in PvP is when he's featured, and thats what, once a month? Optimize for PvE, where it seems like 5/3/5 is the way to go. I was holding out hope for 3/5/5 being a viable build, but it seems like you do need the heals after all. The green can only ever be average (max level, 2.4k dmg for 10 ap and board clear isn't the greatest) at best, and the upgrade from 3->4 green is meh compared to 4->5 blue, so 5/3/5 seems superior.

    That's what I was afraid of. I really, really wanted green to be good, it's such a cool skill, but alas you are right the upgrade isn't as stellar from 3 to 5 as Blue, and from what I've seen so far, having faced a R&G in PvP who was 4/4/5 the heal is just not as scary when compared to a level 5. And it's not like I'm hurting for a green skill in PvE either, I have Thor, XForce, Patch, etc. I do like R&G with Thor as they tank the yellow and green for him
  • He's not irrelevant in PvP. Having him, Patch and Daken in a team can take you straight up to 1800 points in The Simulator without using any health packs if you're lucky and he's a good alternative to Daken in regular PvP grinds (up to 700ish points). He's just not that suitable for 'end game' pvp, but that's what 4thor and XF are for.

    True healing is always welcome.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    He's not irrelevant in PvP. Having him, Patch and Daken in a team can take you straight up to 1800 points in The Simulator without using any health packs if you're lucky and he's a good alternative to Daken in regular PvP grinds (up to 700ish points). He's just not that suitable for 'end game' pvp, but that's what 4thor and XF are for.

    True healing is always welcome.


    Sorry, when I say "irrelevant" in PvP, I mean irrelevant for high-end PvP. The build doesn't really matter for the cases that you describe since the teams are low enough level that it's not really worth optimizing for. My point was just that Phaserhawk seemed like he wanted to factor PvP defense into deciding a build for Groot, when really that doesn't seem like a good idea since you just aren't going to use Groot that much in high end PvP on defense.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I want the most optimal PvE build, I'm really, really torn on this guy. I wanted to go 3/5/5 and max out his offense but from what I have seen and what I am hearing it sounds like his yellow really needs to be maxed. Which then leaves me with what to do with blue and green. Blue needs to be at least 4 but green sucks at 4 compared to 3 or 5 which then sort of defaults you into 5/3/5 as the optimal PvE build unless 3 or 4 yellow is useful but my fear is that it isn't, and that Rocket/Groot are essentially a tank for yellow/green/blue that just keeps coming back.
  • hurculeshurcules Age Unconfirmed Posts: 519
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I want the most optimal PvE build, I'm really, really torn on this guy. I wanted to go 3/5/5 and max out his offense but from what I have seen and what I am hearing it sounds like his yellow really needs to be maxed. Which then leaves me with what to do with blue and green. Blue needs to be at least 4 but green sucks at 4 compared to 3 or 5 which then sort of defaults you into 5/3/5 as the optimal PvE build unless 3 or 4 yellow is useful but my fear is that it isn't, and that Rocket/Groot are essentially a tank for yellow/green/blue that just keeps coming back.
    Agreed. Even in PvE with 3/5/5 build I have problem getting him to sustain tank other 166s without dying. Yellow at 3 covers is not enough from playing experience.
  • turulturul Posts: 1,622 Chairperson of the Boards
    In what shape does Groots Green work at level 5?
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    Played Grocket a bit, his green is very disappointing damage-wise at 4 covers, even maxed _and_ buffed 50%! Did maybe 2000 with it, max. (His LRs, the recent PvE.) The healing doesn't feel good enough at 4, so likely going 5/3/5 after all here.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    turul wrote:
    In what shape does Groots Green work at level 5?

    You blow up double the tiles in the middle and get an extra 20 pts of damage per tile, on average you blow up 13 instead of 9 and do 185 vs 165 respectively.
  • The shape is a line if thats what you were asking about turul. Two more squares at the top and two more at the bottom of the square it starts out with.
  • turulturul Posts: 1,622 Chairperson of the Boards
    The shape is a line if thats what you were asking about turul. Two more squares at the top and two more at the bottom of the square it starts out with.

    Thanks, i just wanted to make sure its vertical.
  • vudu3vudu3 Posts: 930 Critical Contributor
    Reading through the past couple of pages I see that I'm not the only one having a hard time deciding on a build. I currently have level 166, 4/5/4 R&G. I used him a bunch for Hulk PVP and I think that 5 in yellow is required. With 4 yellow covers my R&G generally only healed up to about 2/3 max health which just wasn't enough. Against over-leveled PVE opponents he still died far more often than I thought he should have.

    I just pulled another yellow cover from a standard token and while I'm slightly torn on how to respec I think 5/3/5 is the way to go. Ignoring board shake up, 3 green covers will do 1089 damage and 5 green covers will do 2405 damage (assuming 10 green AP). This is a 121% boost from 3 to 5 covers. Ignoring the CD timer, 3 blue covers will get you 498 worth of strike tiles and 5 covers will get you 1044 worth of strike tiles. This is a 110% boost from 3 to 5 covers. With blue you'll do more overall damage on your third match-3 if you manage to keep all 4 strike tiles on the board. Even if you lose one strike tile each turn you'll still do the same amount of damage by turn 3 and everything after that is just gravy.
  • Except that 1) BLAMMO! usually gets used with 12 AP not 10, and 2) There are better uses of Blue out there (Thor, Storm, Dr. Doom to feed XF)

    I advocate for 5 yellowflag.png but his greenflag.png just doesn't get enough credit IMO. Plus his yellowflag.png and greenflag.png just work so well together. Empty board of TU tiles, knock giant hole in board, fill board with TU tiles. I guess it depends on who you are going to run him with, if getting 11 bluetile.png becomes worth your time. If it's, say, Daken, then 5/5/3 is clearly superior, so Daken won't eat the strike tiles and you spend blue on Chemical Reaction. If it's, say, X-Force, then obviously his green is under performing against XF.

    It also makes a difference if you are retreating to go in with <25% health and trigger I Am Groot right away or if you are going in with the 2/3 health you got last fight, and healing again when you get to 25% this fight. Doing the latter is basically 2/3 + 2/3 = 133% max health.

    My perfect Grocket team is T4or, Grocket, Blade for PvE. Free red strikes, damage on every color, AP steal on Black, and a utility stun when needed. Added bonus: BLAMMO does not destroy friendly tiles (unless they are in the center hit), so it will leave a lot of red on the board after you use it, to either collect for Smite or to turn to strike.png. For this team 5/5/3 is probably better, but I can't bring myself to not take the CD reduction so I landed on 4/5/4.
  • Once you use groot with 5 blue covers, you will never argue for using less.

    It's seriously ridiculously powerful.
  • Lerysh wrote:
    Except that 1) BLAMMO! usually gets used with 12 AP not 10, and 2) There are better uses of Blue out there (Thor, Storm, Dr. Doom to feed XF)

    I advocate for 5 yellowflag.png but his greenflag.png just doesn't get enough credit IMO. Plus his yellowflag.png and greenflag.png just work so well together. Empty board of TU tiles, knock giant hole in board, fill board with TU tiles. I guess it depends on who you are going to run him with, if getting 11 bluetile.png becomes worth your time. If it's, say, Daken, then 5/5/3 is clearly superior, so Daken won't eat the strike tiles and you spend blue on Chemical Reaction. If it's, say, X-Force, then obviously his green is under performing against XF.

    It also makes a difference if you are retreating to go in with <25% health and trigger I Am Groot right away or if you are going in with the 2/3 health you got last fight, and healing again when you get to 25% this fight. Doing the latter is basically 2/3 + 2/3 = 133% max health.

    My perfect Grocket team is T4or, Grocket, Blade for PvE. Free red strikes, damage on every color, AP steal on Black, and a utility stun when needed. Added bonus: BLAMMO does not destroy friendly tiles (unless they are in the center hit), so it will leave a lot of red on the board after you use it, to either collect for Smite or to turn to strike.png. For this team 5/5/3 is probably better, but I can't bring myself to not take the CD reduction so I landed on 4/5/4.

    The thing with his Green though is that even at max level the damage isn't stellar, most of the reason to use the Green is board shakeup, and you get very little increase in shakeup going from 3 to 5
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    .... I do like R&G with Thor as they tank the yellow and green for him

    I'd prefer Groot to be taking the damage because, using his yellow skill yellowflag.png , he can heal to full healthpack.png , in one match-up yellowtile.pngyellowtile.pngyellowtile.png .
  • gamar wrote:
    The thing with his Green though is that even at max level the damage isn't stellar, most of the reason to use the Green is board shakeup, and you get very little increase in shakeup going from 3 to 5

    Well, assuming you throw it with 12 greentile.png 3 covers destroys 10 tiles, and 5 destroys 14 tiles, so there is an increase in shakeup. Plus at 4 covers it can destroy countdowns which can be useful.
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