*** Rocket and Groot (Most Wanted)***

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Comments

  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    The arguement that is Grocket shows he's probably a good balance.

    I understand the 4/5/4 arguement, I understand the 3/5/5, the 5/3/5 and the 5/5/3 and 5/4/4 all of those are viable and work best in different enviornments.

    Green does have the best scaling per cover compared to yellow and blue, this is how I see it.

    Anything with 5 in yellow, is sacrifcing one of the other offensive colors to make Grocket the regenerating annoyance.

    Anything with 5 in green, is possibly giving up regen or potential damage.

    Anything with 5 in blue is given up potential offense or defense

    so what's the best way to go?

    Rocket and Groot are one of those rare characters where depending upon the team you bring them with vastly dictates his build.
  • I don't understand running 4or with Grocket, since both need blue and both don't really cover yellow because 4or yellow is weak unless you have it at 4-5 but then you **** her red. If he merely tanks for her, that's cool I guess, but 4or needs to be tanked for about as much as Hood doesn't need to.
    Come to think of it, I never run Grocket with 4*s (no huge synergy with XF and definitely not with 4or or Fury. Elektra, Dino and Star-Lord are probably passable with him). I did run him as the sole green user with Cyclops and Falcon on all essential nodes in Enemy of the State but there are way, way, way too many CDs to deal with via Grocket green and it's much faster and easier to just power through with regen, strike tiles and other characters' offensive (Cyke and Falcon buffing tiles). Most goons are too spammy to ever have a plan to kill most CDs instead of just killing goons, so powerful regen allows Grocket to tank the damage with no repercussions. Other stellar PvE team with Grocket with even better offense (but poorer goon defense) - Blade/lazy Thor.
    Goons and their CDs are hardly the biggest problem you have in PvE, any low tier character can deal with those given some AP - Bag-Man, She-Hulk, Octopus.
    it's exactly the overscaled baddies (Gorgon, Ares, Juggernaut, etc.) that deal huge amounts of damage in short periods of time that are problematic but Grocket can tackle (on good, synergistic teams), and he wants full regen for that.
    I am positively sure that 4/5/4 is one of the weakest possible builds for Grocket since green does not, indeed, scale better than either yellow or blue. 5 green Grocket is shoehorned into lower level goon PvE. That's pretty sad.
    5/3/5 is more versatile because the green is still passable, especially with strike tiles, and there is no shortage of better greens (LT, Gamora, Patch, Squirrel Girl, Iron Fist now, even Sentry situationally), but you are also bringing superb strike tiles in a rarely found colour and excellent regeneration, while with 4/5/4 you just bring a mediocre board shake up and special tile remover with mediocre everything else. I run my 5/3/5 Grocket in PvP too, he's not only a PvE star, but also an LR star.
  • Arondite
    Arondite Posts: 1,188 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    The arguement that is Grocket shows he's probably a good balance.

    I understand the 4/5/4 arguement, I understand the 3/5/5, the 5/3/5 and the 5/5/3 and 5/4/4 all of those are viable and work best in different enviornments.

    Green does have the best scaling per cover compared to yellow and blue, this is how I see it.

    Anything with 5 in yellow, is sacrifcing one of the other offensive colors to make Grocket the regenerating annoyance.

    Anything with 5 in green, is possibly giving up regen or potential damage.

    Anything with 5 in blue is given up potential offense or defense

    so what's the best way to go?

    Rocket and Groot are one of those rare characters where depending upon the team you bring them with vastly dictates his build.

    Any build with less than 5 blue is a poor build.
  • Arondite wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    The arguement that is Grocket shows he's probably a good balance.

    I understand the 4/5/4 arguement, I understand the 3/5/5, the 5/3/5 and the 5/5/3 and 5/4/4 all of those are viable and work best in different enviornments.

    Green does have the best scaling per cover compared to yellow and blue, this is how I see it.

    Anything with 5 in yellow, is sacrifcing one of the other offensive colors to make Grocket the regenerating annoyance.

    Anything with 5 in green, is possibly giving up regen or potential damage.

    Anything with 5 in blue is given up potential offense or defense

    so what's the best way to go?

    Rocket and Groot are one of those rare characters where depending upon the team you bring them with vastly dictates his build.

    Any build with less than 5 blue is a poor build.
    Agreed with this.

    The first time I saw my 249 Grocket lay down his 4 tiles and checked their value a little tear came to my eye.
  • Blammo targets basic or protect tiles only, so Grocket is one of (if not the) best shakers for a team using special tiles. It is true that the cascade created might match your special tiles, but any board shake can do this, so he's just one step ahead when he doesnt directly target said tiles.

    And the blueflag.png power omg... Im pairing them with Blade and Im loving it.
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,247 Chairperson of the Boards
    So I've been able to respec him to 3/5/5 recently and these are my findings for this slightly less popular build.

    You gain at base, 1000 dmg on his green if you use with the minimum 10 AP, for a total of 2405 which is not bad at all.
    The biggest difference with green at 5 covers is the pretty much guaranteed cascades you'll get. It leaves a big hole in the middle
    of the board as well and even if you don't get a cascade, you're almost guaranteed to get a 4-match, sometimes a 5-match. You do not get the same results with 4 covers.

    If you put out the strike tiles before as well, his green can smash people for 6000 dmg easily which is lovely for overscaled PVE nodes. You'll destroy your special tiles a bit more but it's not a big deal.

    As far as the yellow goes, it's pretty much what I expected. On average, I will be able to get him back around to 6500 health when he hits the 25% treshold (that's about 10 TU tiles). If you get a rich TU board, you can get him back to 8000 health or so. I have not been having much problem with keeping him alive most of the time unless the AI just goes crazy with combos and such.

    The I am Groot skill will also fire off more often since he heals less. It's more risky but most of the time it pays off.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    sinnerjfl wrote:
    So I've been able to respec him to 3/5/5 recently and these are my findings for this slightly less popular build.

    You gain at base, 1000 dmg on his green if you use with the minimum 10 AP, for a total of 2405 which is not bad at all.
    The biggest difference with green at 5 covers is the pretty much guaranteed cascades you'll get. It leaves a big hole in the middle
    of the board as well and even if you don't get a cascade, you're almost guaranteed to get a 4-match, sometimes a 5-match. You do not get the same results with 4 covers.

    If you put out the strike tiles before as well, his green can smash people for 6000 dmg easily which is lovely for overscaled PVE nodes. You'll destroy your special tiles a bit more but it's not a big deal.

    As far as the yellow goes, it's pretty much what I expected. On average, I will be able to get him back around to 6500 health when he hits the 25% treshold (that's about 10 TU tiles). If you get a rich TU board, you can get him back to 8000 health or so. I have not been having much problem with keeping him alive most of the time unless the AI just goes crazy with combos and such.

    The I am Groot skill will also fire off more often since he heals less. It's more risky but most of the time it pays off.

    I had 3/5/5 and switched to 5/3/5 as soon as I could once I got him to level 120+. Healing from sub 20% to 50% vs. healing to full makes a huge difference. Its especially nice because if you're at around 40% at the end of a battle you can retreat in prologue then heal to full. Letting Groot eat a headbutt then healing to full vs. being killed if he casts it again makes a huge difference. Its also really nice when if he somehow dies his full heal timer is effectively 1.5 hrs.
  • Carnage_78
    Carnage_78 Posts: 304 Mover and Shaker
    sinnerjfl wrote:
    So I've been able to respec him to 3/5/5 recently and these are my findings for this slightly less popular build.

    The 3/5/5 build has been my objective from the get go...I am sitting at 1/5/5 at the moment & using icon_rocket.png with icon_blade.png in PvP and adding icon_falcon.png to them in PvE.

    greenflag.png hitting after blueflag.png is very powerful & with some cascades on a regular basis it is plain devastating for any enemy. Combined to some more strike tiles generated by icon_blade.png, it allows me to take on some stronger opponents in PvP & also take on some scaled out nodes in PvE. That team is especially effective for survival nodes...that last wave never sees it coming & gets obliterated! icon_mrgreen.gif

    I get the argument that more healing yellowflag.png will help for sustainability in PvP & also PvE but to me it would not be enough to take on some bigger opponents quickly while shield hopping near the end of an event for example.

    To me it boils down to the fact that I'll take the healing that I can get which is good enough to save me in a tough or unlucky match once in a while but I will take all the fire power possible every single time...so for me I will keep using that build, popular or not. icon_cool.gif
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    R&G isn't fast enough for shield hopping, AP costs are too high + you need to wait for the CD tile. Groot is an excellent true heal tank (can protect yellow + green for LThor!) and to me his whole gameplay revolves around absorbing damage as you gather enough AP to get blue off, then own face.

    The damage on green is mostly insignificant. 3v5 is +64 per tile, 4v5 is +20. Assuming 16 green before you cast (which is quite a bit I think) its 1452 vs. 1980 vs. 2960 (main advantage of 4+ covers is the CD tile destruction). The amount of cascading should be fairly consistent regardless of number of covers so I don't think we need to factor that in. I think I actually prefer 4 covers to 5 because besides the center hole punch, your own special tiles aren't destroyed (unless as a result of cascading). The 2x4 in the center was killing my own tiles a lot more frequently than 2x2.
  • PvPMore
    PvPMore Posts: 24
    Hey guys

    I have a question, help me out here.
    My Rgroot currently has 4 greenflag.png covers, power description is:
    Rocket and Groot unleash massive destruction upon their enemies.
    Groot punches a 2x2 hole in the center of the board, while Rocket destroys 1 additional random basic, Protect, Strike, Attack or Countdown tile for each 2 Green AP the team has.
    Deals 113 damage per tile. Does not generate AP.


    So far i have seen him (them) destroy one countdown tile, once.
    How does it work? Why doesn't it always destroy a countdown tile when there is one or more on the board?
  • sc0ville
    sc0ville Posts: 115 Tile Toppler
    PvPMore wrote:
    Hey guys

    I have a question, help me out here.
    My Rgroot currently has 4 greenflag.png covers, power description is:
    Rocket and Groot unleash massive destruction upon their enemies.
    Groot punches a 2x2 hole in the center of the board, while Rocket destroys 1 additional random basic, Protect, Strike, Attack or Countdown tile for each 2 Green AP the team has.
    Deals 113 damage per tile. Does not generate AP.


    So far i have seen him (them) destroy one countdown tile, once.
    How does it work? Why doesn't it always destroy a countdown tile when there is one or more on the board?

    The tiles that Blammo destroys other than the center 4 or 8 are entirely random. Prior to 4 covers he's unable to destroy countdown tiles with that ability (other than ones that are in the center hit box) the only thing that the 4th cover does is make it so that it's possible that it can happen. It doesn't make it any more likely than him destroying another basic/random/protect/strike or attack tile, it just enables it as a possibility.
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,247 Chairperson of the Boards
    dkffiv wrote:
    The amount of cascading should be fairly consistent regardless of number of covers so I don't think we need to factor that in. I think I actually prefer 4 covers to 5 because besides the center hole punch, your own special tiles aren't destroyed (unless as a result of cascading). The 2x4 in the center was killing my own tiles a lot more frequently than 2x2.


    I just mentionned the cascades have a higher occurence at 5 covers vs 4, I had both for long enough to tell you that it matters.
    And also, the chance for a 4-match or 5-match after using Blammo is much higher. His green is really underrated just because of
    X-Force, it's not as good without strike tiles but is actually better in the long run for PVE nodes with high health enemies.
  • PvPMore
    PvPMore Posts: 24
    sc0ville wrote:
    PvPMore wrote:
    Hey guys

    I have a question, help me out here.
    My Rgroot currently has 4 greenflag.png covers, power description is:
    Rocket and Groot unleash massive destruction upon their enemies.
    Groot punches a 2x2 hole in the center of the board, while Rocket destroys 1 additional random basic, Protect, Strike, Attack or Countdown tile for each 2 Green AP the team has.
    Deals 113 damage per tile. Does not generate AP.


    So far i have seen him (them) destroy one countdown tile, once.
    How does it work? Why doesn't it always destroy a countdown tile when there is one or more on the board?

    The tiles that Blammo destroys other than the center 4 or 8 are entirely random. Prior to 4 covers he's unable to destroy countdown tiles with that ability (other than ones that are in the center hit box) the only thing that the 4th cover does is make it so that it's possible that it can happen. It doesn't make it any more likely than him destroying another basic/random/protect/strike or attack tile, it just enables it as a possibility.

    Thanks, i get it now.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Having played him 3/5/4 (how my covers fell), then 3/5/5, to 4/4/5, to 5/3/5, OMG is 5 yellow needed, no doubt, blue is vastly more powerful at 5, and green didn't change much in function, just damage.

    I do miss the extra punch of damage 5 green provided, but not as much as it sucked not having 5 yellow, and having had blue save me more times than not, I'm never question 5/3/5 again.

    I see some arguements for 4/5/4.

    Here's the math.

    If you wait for blue to resolve before using green

    4/5/4--3137 from green
    5/3/5--2529 from green

    That's 608 dmg difference

    however, every attack or match or cascade is 312 extra damage for 5/3/5 so after you match end your turn assuming no cascades after green take 608--312----you are only 296 damage or one match from recouping the loss in green.

    The only thing I would opt over 5/3/5 would be 3/5/5, but I dont' find him as offensively strong enough to go this way
  • Anything without 5 blue is wrong
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,476 Chairperson of the Boards
    Finally yellow rewards are coming up so I have the option to take him out of 3/5/5. Yellow seems great for continued battles, but it doesn't seem like he is one of the most powerful (first choice) options anymore.

    Which is the bigger scarecrow to go up against (Grocket on D): 5 yellow or 5 green? Yellow is annoying but can often be played around.
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
    Level 3: Can destroy enemy strike and attack tiles. Deals 38 per tile.
    Level 4: Max: 2×2 + 1 tile of any type for each greentile.pnggreentile.png , 165 damage per tile.

    Is this an oversight, or does this mean that from 3 to 4 it loses the limitation on /enemy/ special tiles and can hit your own too?
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    Finally yellow rewards are coming up so I have the option to take him out of 3/5/5. Yellow seems great for continued battles, but it doesn't seem like he is one of the most powerful (first choice) options anymore.

    Which is the bigger scarecrow to go up against (Grocket on D): 5 yellow or 5 green? Yellow is annoying but can often be played around.

    That's the thing though, I never lose to R&G from anything other than watching me almost have him dead to cascading into a yellow match and he's back to life. Green hurts no doubt, but nowhere as much as a 20k health R&G, he'll kill you almost everytime
  • His yellow is one of those abilities where you think having more levels wouldn't help, except it does. I think it's because the AI generally starts off slow but once they get going, they really get going and you need every possible HP you can get to. If your goal is to beat them before the AI uses their big moves then you shouldn't be using Rocket & Groot in the first place. And if you're fighting something that gets going fast, you need the heal even more. Even for PvP, the AI usually takes some time to get ready their moves since they don't prioritize on their colors, but if the game has lasted long enough to trigger the heal then you can be pretty sure the AI must have picked enough AP to overcome its initial slow start.
  • SnowcaTT wrote:
    Finally yellow rewards are coming up so I have the option to take him out of 3/5/5. Yellow seems great for continued battles, but it doesn't seem like he is one of the most powerful (first choice) options anymore.

    Which is the bigger scarecrow to go up against (Grocket on D): 5 yellow or 5 green? Yellow is annoying but can often be played around.
    green isn't bad but the threshold of having a good green is very high. Therefore, max others