Anniversary Tokens - Combined Arms and Venom: Heroic

orionpeace

Ben Grimm wrote:

Raffoon wrote:

-Only 25% of the players are going to get these new rewards

per round. Not only 25% overall, 25% per round. There will be 24 rounds, the average person should be able to participate in 6-8 of them at a minimum. Given that they're bleeding over onto the weekend, probably more like 10-12 or more for a lot of us.

True.

But really, it is all going to come down to how they apply MMR and create brackets.

If I join an LR and 12 of the 20 are fully leveled 3* players, I don't have a shot at getting an Anniversary Token.

If they consistently pool transitioning players into brackets with fully leveled players, then I will be nothing more than a pinata for those players to use on their way up while I win nothing more than Standard Tokens. I know there will be a ton of ISO. And I appreciate that.

But I do want those Anniversary Tokens. At least the 4 I should have already earned from the time I spent in the current events.

To re-earn those Tokens, I will need to place in the top 25% in 4 separate LRs. I'm not convinced that is even possible. And if it requires that I have to grind out PvP in a frustrating slugfest, burning every resource I have for 1.5 hours over and over then I'm not sure it is worth it.

I'm glad D3 is doing something to compensate their mistake. I just don't yet believe this is a solution that will apply to me and my roster.

I can fully understand why the top tier of players are excited about this solution. The odds of gaining more than they lost are high.

To them I say... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzQKECQgjW8

Unknown

orionpeace wrote:

If I join an LR and 12 of the 20 are fully leveled 3* players, I don't have a shot at getting an Anniversary Token.

If they consistently pool transitioning players into brackets with fully leveled players, then I will be nothing more than a pinata for those players to use on their way up while I win nothing more than Standard Tokens.

There is no connection between who is in your bracket and who you are matched against. NONE. In this event, it is very unlikely you'll have a single match against anyone any in your bracket even if you play every single round, because each bracket only has 20 people, while 5000-20,000 people are playing in lightning rounds normally (probably more, here). That means your bracket is somewhere between 1/250 and 1/1000 of the entire pool.

Moreover, Lightning rounds usually match you against people in your general point range, rarely way below. I play them a lot, and I'm usually aiming for top 50, but not top 25. That means frequently, at the end, I'm searching for a 10-15 point match, and I can pretty much NEVER find one. I couldn't beat on people in the low range even if I wanted to.

While the situation you proposed means you'll do lousy in that round, you're just as likely - and probably actually much more likely - to be in a bracket with 15 newbies and people who get up to 50 or 100 and stop. You're focusing on the worst-case scenario, and you might not have it happen at all, and probably won't have it happen more than a couple times. Your brackets will probably vary wildly, from some where you're fighting not to be 20th and others where top 5 is a breeze.

GrimSkald

This is a bit embarassing, but I actually did pretty well on my event tokens - I got a black BP from my Combined Arms token, and a blue Beast from one of my Heroic: Venom tokens. This is in fact better on average than I would have done on Anniversary tokens - random chance.

Remember that the Anniversary tokens have a noticably better chance of a non-2* draw, but it isn't as if we're losing a garunteed 3* token. Their solution is not the best, but from my perspective it's fine. I'd have been happy with one Anniversary token, too - sure I had "lost" three, but we did get the normal reward, rather than the noticably-but-not-exponentially-better-than-normal reward.

orionpeace

I understand the mechanics of matchmaking in LRs. And I will admit I oversimplified my concern.

To expand on it, fully leveled 3* players can continue to gain points beyond my ability to do so because they can compete against teams that I cannot. Those same teams, from other brackets, will see me as they climb. I expect to be hit a lot and lose most of those, making my climb that much harder and slower. Whereas the climb up to me and past is easier for 3* players as they are less likely to be targeted in that point range.

If there are even 5 fully leveled 3* players in my bracket, my ability to gain a cover becomes very difficult because my soft cap on points is lower than theirs.

I'm not yet convinced that I will fail to earn top 5 in a bracket. But I am very concerned that my ability to do it 4 times, much less once, will be heavily dependent on how they create brackets and who is powered up in the rounds. Given that I am regularly in PvP brackets with players from the most aggressive PvP Alliances, I'm sure you can understand my trepidation on that point.

Unknown

At first this didn't seem much as getting rank in LRs is incredibly difficult but given the 20 man brackets I might get lucky. Who knows. Still not too jazzed about this. Btw, I really didn't complain about the non-anniversary tokens. I got a red LThor from one of them.

Unknown

orionpeace wrote:

I understand the mechanics of matchmaking in LRs. And I will admit I oversimplified my concern.

To expand on it, fully leveled 3* players can continue to gain points beyond my ability to do so because they can compete against teams that I cannot. Those same teams, from other brackets, will see me as they climb. I expect to be hit a lot and lose most of those, making my climb that much harder and slower. Whereas the climb up to me and past is easier for 3* players as they are less likely to be targeted in that point range.

If there are even 5 fully leveled 3* players in my bracket, my ability to gain a cover becomes very difficult because my cap on points is lower than theirs.

I'm not yet convinced that I will fail to earn top 5 in a bracket. But I very concerned that my ability to do it 4 times, much less once, will be heavily dependent on how they create brackets and who is powered up in the rounds. Given that I am regularly in PvP brackets with players from the most aggressive PvP Alliances, I'm sure you can understand my trepidation on that point.

All you need is one easy bracket - and you'll probably get at least one - and you might get 2-3 tokens in a single round.

I think you may not realize how out-of-step with the game the forums are. You're probably in at least the 90th percentile in terms of your character development. There are a TON more noobs than people with developed 3* rosters. You are unlikely to have multiple developed 3* rosters in your tiny 20-person brackets. You might if you start the second lightning rounds start, but if you're getting that just don't start immediately - load up the seed teams and wait a few minutes.

Keep in mind, this is the equivalent of placing above 125th in a regular pvp, and that's if sharding is the same. Sharding is likely to be incredibly inconsistent in this, and possibly non-existent, since LRs aren't usually sharded. I doubt the typical bracket will have more than 2-3 developed 3* rosters in it, with the possible exception of the immediate start brackets. And maybe not even those.

Unknown

this makes getting the anniversary tokens more difficult then it was originally intended, either lower the required pts required for the token or give everyone at least a free pull

Unknown

When I first saw it, I was like so I just don't get Anniversary tokens now? But then I saw the 20-player brackets.

The biggest risk for myself and many others is missing the lightning round altogether. I'm not a 18/7 player like some of you. The people who really get screwed are non-NA players. I really hope that the implementation works out, and hopefully vets are swimming in tokens.

Colognoisseur

If it is Anniversary Tokens you prize above ISO there is a really good way for you to likely put yourself in an easy bracket that will let you get t5.
1.) Be there to open the LR the moment it goes up. That will load seed teams into your nodes. If you have any kind of roster you can beat those.
2.) Set an alarm for 10-15 minutes before the end.
3.) When the alarm goes off start playing.
4.) Crush the seed teams and go as far as they will take you.
5.) Assess your position in your bracket and see what you can shoot for over the last few minutes.

The result of this is you are likely to be in a bracket without players like me because the LR is more an iso farm for me and I plan on entering in the first few seconds and race out to a a lead and see where that puts me in my bracket.

By starting late you will be worth so few points it is more time/reward better for me to take on a higher valued target. So at least in my case you will be skipped.

By starting late the make up of those 20-player brackets should be great for those who usually stop at 50-100 to make much better rewards than they are used to.

I have used likely a lot because this is how I expect the event to go based on what ICE IX has said. If it does I think there are going to be many people who will get more tokens than they thought.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

When I first saw it, I was like so I just don't get Anniversary tokens now? But then I saw the 20-player brackets.

The biggest risk for myself and many others is missing the lightning round altogether. I'm not a 18/7 player like some of you. The people who really get screwed are non-NA players. I really hope that the implementation works out, and hopefully vets are swimming in tokens.

There will be 24 LRs, run every 2 hours. Everyone can play on their own schedule. There shouldn't be any disadvantage to non-NA players; they won't have as much of an advantage as usual LRs (due to being able to play in off-times), but they shouldn't have a disadvantage either. LRs are one of the few events that aren't biased particularly strongly for or against a particular time zone.

simonsez

Ben Grimm wrote:

All you need is one easy bracket - and you'll probably get at least one - and you might get 2-3 tokens in a single round. Sharding is likely to be incredibly inconsistent in this, and possibly non-existent, since LRs aren't usually sharded.

We've never seen 20 person LR brackets before, so anything they've done usually doesn't necessarily apply. And it's concerning that Ice has posted a dozen times in this thread, but the question about whether or not these brackets will be random, wasn't addressed. Maybe he thought it was a rhetorical question. Or maybe they do plan to shard the **** out of this. We'll see soon enough.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

When I first saw it, I was like so I just don't get Anniversary tokens now? But then I saw the 20-player brackets.

The biggest risk for myself and many others is missing the lightning round altogether. I'm not a 18/7 player like some of you. The people who really get screwed are non-NA players. I really hope that the implementation works out, and hopefully vets are swimming in tokens.

If it runs for 48 hours straight there is plenty of rounds to hit while NA sleeps. This should be the most Global Friendly event ever run.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

All you need is one easy bracket - and you'll probably get at least one - and you might get 2-3 tokens in a single round. Sharding is likely to be incredibly inconsistent in this, and possibly non-existent, since LRs aren't usually sharded.

We've never seen 20 person LR brackets before, so anything they've done usually doesn't necessarily apply. And it's concerning that Ice has posted a dozen times in this thread, but the question about whether or not these brackets will be random, wasn't addressed. Maybe he thought it was a rhetorical question. Or maybe they do plan to shard the **** out of this. We'll see soon enough.

But for a transitioning player, like orionpeace characterized himself, either they're sharded a lot, in which case he'll be stuck with a bunch of people at his own level, or not a lot, in which case he's no more likely to be stuck with high-level than low-level. There's no sharding pattern that should stick you with people way above you in level multiple times. A few? Sure, and then he could go light those rounds.

In any case, you're not going the be playing in matches against the people in your bracket, so worrying about them attacking you over and over if you're in a bracket with them shouldn't be a concern.

Unknown

Cryptobrancus wrote:

daibar wrote:

When I first saw it, I was like so I just don't get Anniversary tokens now? But then I saw the 20-player brackets.

The biggest risk for myself and many others is missing the lightning round altogether. I'm not a 18/7 player like some of you. The people who really get screwed are non-NA players. I really hope that the implementation works out, and hopefully vets are swimming in tokens.

If it runs for 48 hours straight there is plenty of rounds to hit while NA sleeps. This should be the most Global Friendly event ever run.

Who told you you could sleep while the LRs will be running ?

over_clocked

Pardon me, my estimate of 16-17k ISO for hardcores is a bit off since I included sold covers in last week's profit, and covers don't sell for double ISO during this anniversary. Still, getting at least 9-10k in a single round (all the seeds + sold covers) makes my mouth water.

simonsez

Ben Grimm wrote:

There's no sharding pattern that should stick you with people way above you in level multiple times.

Sure there is. If all they did was group people via fixed MMR buckets, your MMR could be at the bottom of a bucket.

In a typical LR, it really doesn't take much work to finish in the top 50. I'm just saying I'm not going into these assuming that finishing top 5 will be anywhere close to being that easy. I'm going to assume it'll be just like PvPs, where there are always going to be a handful of people who score like crazy, leaving only second-tier awards available.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

All you need is one easy bracket - and you'll probably get at least one - and you might get 2-3 tokens in a single round. Sharding is likely to be incredibly inconsistent in this, and possibly non-existent, since LRs aren't usually sharded.

We've never seen 20 person LR brackets before, so anything they've done usually doesn't necessarily apply. And it's concerning that Ice has posted a dozen times in this thread, but the question about whether or not these brackets will be random, wasn't addressed. Maybe he thought it was a rhetorical question. Or maybe they do plan to shard the **** out of this. We'll see soon enough.

It's still LR. The only change is that they are 20 person brackets. So, there should be sharding. However, since it's a 20 person bracket, you should not get many (if any) death brackets). PVP is usually 500 ppl, so imagine if only one of every 25 ppl were there.

I'm thinking a lot of the anxiety over this will go away after the first couple of LR's. A lot of people seem to be equating their current LR or PVP experience with what the LR's will be like. I do not think these will be anything like that. Also, if you don't have the best roster, you should have a better GT loaner than accustomed to in PVP as well.

Unknown

Does anyone remember this?

No Holds Barred lightning edition

150 HP buy in with 50 man brackets. 3* token + some iso HP as a top 1-2 reward.

This was back in July but I remember it pretty well. My roster was MUCH worse back then but I bought in and fought my way to winning a shiny 3* token (It was a daredevil) I think I did end up buying one or two 2 shields but that was because I was doing well and wanted it to stay that way.

So to recap someone with a mediocre roster went into a 50 man bracket, 12 hour tournament and without too much hardship came out in the top 2 (4%).

So this will be shorter will smaller brackets and 25% chance at one or more Anniversary tokens with no buy in. And if one goes poorly there will be a total of 12 you can try to compete in.

Guys have more faith in your abilities, go out and actually try at this and I bet you will be pleasantly surprised how many tokens you will be able to grab. If you go and actually try in at least two rounds and aren't able to get any tokens I will literally sell my 2* daken. (To be fair I have been thinking about ditching him anyways so this is a terrible bet, but I'll do it, I will!)

Unknown

stephen43084 wrote:

It's still LR. The only change is that they are 20 person brackets. So, there should be sharding.

LRs don't normally have brackets, so they don't normally have sharding. Very, very full ones might get a second bracket, but for the most part everyone's in a single, giant bracket.

Pylgrim

Ben Grimm wrote:

orionpeace wrote:

If I join an LR and 12 of the 20 are fully leveled 3* players, I don't have a shot at getting an Anniversary Token.

If they consistently pool transitioning players into brackets with fully leveled players, then I will be nothing more than a pinata for those players to use on their way up while I win nothing more than Standard Tokens.

There is no connection between who is in your bracket and who you are matched against. NONE. In this event, it is very unlikely you'll have a single match against anyone any in your bracket even if you play every single round, because each bracket only has 20 people, while 5000-20,000 people are playing in lightning rounds normally (probably more, here). That means your bracket is somewhere between 1/250 and 1/1000 of the entire pool.

Moreover, Lightning rounds usually match you against people in your general point range, rarely way below. I play them a lot, and I'm usually aiming for top 50, but not top 25. That means frequently, at the end, I'm searching for a 10-15 point match, and I can pretty much NEVER find one. I couldn't beat on people in the low range even if I wanted to.

While the situation you proposed means you'll do lousy in that round, you're just as likely - and probably actually much more likely - to be in a bracket with 15 newbies and people who get up to 50 or 100 and stop. You're focusing on the worst-case scenario, and you might not have it happen at all, and probably won't have it happen more than a couple times. Your brackets will probably vary wildly, from some where you're fighting not to be 20th and others where top 5 is a breeze.

Man, I sure hope that you are right, but I cannot help be sceptical. After almost a whole year in which I haven't EVER participated in a LR where I wasn't completely walled out by unbeatable opponents the moment I stepped out of the seeds teams, I find hard to believe that it will suddenly happen just because the brackets are smaller.