**** Thor (Goddess of Thunder) **** [PRE 2015-03]

Unknown

The_Valeyard wrote:

daibar wrote:

I still think that an appropriate nerf to Thoress would be to change the value of charged tiles: Make them 2X AP, 4X Damage as opposed to 3X AP & 3X Damage. It'd greatly reduce the effectiveness of Power Surge, slightly increase the chance that the opponent can escape from perma-stun, and make damage easier to understand.

Match 3:
1 charged tile -> damage 167% -> 200% normal match 3
2 charged tiles -> damage 233% -> 300% normal match 3
3 charged tiles -> damage 300% -> 400% normal match 3

I disagree. 4or is slow to get started. This the new spin on the old build up of thor red, then yellow, then green. Instead, it's match until you can cast PS; then, try and build up AP. However, unlike the 2* and 3* versions, these tiles are open to either side to match. A player can cast PS, but the AI can match tiles, and let's face it, of the two, the AI is more likely to get a cascade and really clean up.

The problem seems to not be with the AP, but either the PS followed by Smite move. So even if the chargers were worth less AP, the move is still as potent as before. Lessening the AP from the chargers would soften the drawback of creating charge tiles.

I'm not sure at this point after reading the thread how the balance should go. Clearly, 4or is 4* and should remain top tier after the changes (sorry detractors, but it's true). However, her combo needs to be reeled in some as well (sorry other detractors, but it's true). In the TAT PVE, I beat the 395 C Mags/Hood time after time like it was nothing using 4or/IM40/OBW. That should not happen. So hopefully the balance either makes both sides happy, or both sides unhappy.

Several points:
"The AI is more likely to get a cascade and really clean up." Although the AI likes to save and use multiple powers at once, and the Dark Avengers have lots of cheap cascade moves (Unstoppable Crash, Godlike Power), in regular PVP where those guys aren't there a decent player is much more likely to produce cascades through better moves. Further, the player has first shot at the tiles, and why would you cast it early if you don't have at least one opportunity of matching some right away?

If you seriously think more AP in your colors for charged tiles is a drawback, ...

PS followed by Smite is not necessarily a problem on it's own. It takes 19 AP to pull off, quite a huge amount. That would normally be 8-10 turns into a match. However, with charged tiles, you can make another red match or two, and have powered Smite off within 6-8 turns, less if you boost, keeping the other 2 mostly stunned. With lesser AP per charged tile, Power Surge wouldn't be able to chain into another power surge so easily.

Dauthi

Arondite wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

I find it funny how the OP still hasn't replied to the 3* Thor vs 4* Thor argument when scaled equivalently.

When 3* is boosted close to, but still under 4*s maximum level his yellow did 3.7k(ish) damage, and green did 3.6k ish damage (x2 to the main target). This equaled out to around 18k damage across the team, why is this damage ignored just because it isn't targeted on one character? 3* Thor can do this without having a double edged sword at his throat like 4* with charged tiles to boot. Nine green dropping on the board is also more likely to create cascades of alternate colors creating more AP generation and damage, vs 4*s random charge tile drops and wasted turns having to match these.

Their HP is also similarly equivalent when 3* is scaled.

I can understand OP's feelings towards how strong she is offensively, I don't think he understands how useless she is defensively and underestimates this downfall. When more 4*s come out that are competent in both defense and offense like X-Force, she may be replaced for the same reason characters like 3* cap and 2* mags are replaced in PVP.

I can see maybe a slight nerf in how many charge tiles she drops with her blue, but that is about all I can get on board with. She is a character that has risk/reward and deserves to get boosted damage due to this.

I haven't addressed this argument because its a non argument. If this character you're arguing existed, we could see whether or not it was too strong for the game in practice and make a decision then. But this character doesnt even exist. Why would I go around with you about something that's not even real? Of course you'd like to do this, since arguing about a character that doesn't exist distracts from the actual, existing hero that's a bit too powerful in the weak-featured-character metagame. But id rather focus on real problems lmao.

Nice attempt to dodge, but it does exist in the 3* and 2* realm, therefor can easily be considered when balancing characters. If you wanted to you could break down the percentages, but it was easier to show you the power of a 3* Thor close to the level of 4*. I'm not sure why you think you can overlook this.

There will be great characters in any * level, and the best ones will come to the top like Thor does in 3*. The main problem some people are having is there isn't enough 4*s to compare the good 4*s to, so they will think someone like Lady Thor is OP. She is definitely top tier, but I don't know about OP.

Again, I wouldn't mind a nerf, but only slightly. Blue going from 5 to 12 charged tiles is a bit much. I definitely don't think she breaks the game like X-Forces black though, which is by far better than any skill in the game. Nerfing should be prioritized on that.

Trisul

"D3 should not nerf GT, but instead buff everyone else" <---- This is functionally similar to just nerfing GT, except a million times more work.

If we are working on everyone, I'd actually rather they nerf EVERYONE. I think the pace of the game is too fast right now and offense is too good overall.

Unknown

Trisul wrote:

"D3 should not nerf GT, but instead buff everyone else" <---- This is functionally similar to just nerfing GT, except a million times more work.

If we are working on everyone, I'd actually rather they nerf EVERYONE. I think the pace of the game is too fast right now and offense is too good overall.

Even before factoring boosts that are only available to offense, offense is indeed too good right now. The only way to slow down the offense involves fairly broken characters like The Hood or Loki but offense is broken enough that even these broken characters don't always do enough to slow it down. However if offense is toned down this will usually decrease the number of games you can play (great offense beats each other and tends to require very little health packs when you're mutually annihilating each other with ease) and that has to be addressed. While I don't particularly mind the health pack system, the rate it regenerates is probably too slow for most people to deal with if they do not have a broken offense to count on and they need to do something about that if they ever fixed offense being overwhelmingly advantaged, because then you'd start losing a lot more games and the health packs can't possibly hold up for an enjoyable experience.

kensterr

The old XF was lame so people were complaining that he's too lame. He got buffed. Now he works so well with TGT that people complain TGT is too OP. People complain that Baglady is too lame for a 4* and she is being reworked. If she comes out having super great buffs then people might complain that Baglady is too OP when she works with XF and TGT. Complain complain complain.

First world problems.

Arondite

kensterr wrote:

The old XF was lame so people were complaining that he's too lame. He got buffed. Now he works so well with TGT that people complain TGT is too OP. People complain that Baglady is too lame for a 4* and she is being reworked. If she comes out having super great buffs then people might complain that Baglady is too OP when she works with XF and TGT. Complain complain complain.

First world problems.

Pretty much.

I mean, I know a balanced game is a lot to ask for and all, but still.

Unknown

You are absolutely worthless on defense. I never lose to you and you net me 0 defensive wins. I miss putting Lazy Thor and OBW on defense and going positive 60-90.

P.S.
You just got crushed 3 times by MMags and XF. You make me sick...

Let's talk about good defensive teams

Unknown

There will never be good defensive teams as long as boosts can be used...

atomzed

3uphoria wrote:

You are absolutely worthless on defense. I never lose to you and you net me 0 defensive wins. I miss putting Lazy Thor and OBW on defense and going positive 60-90.

P.S.
You just got crushed 3 times by MMags and XF. You make me sick...

Let's talk about good defensive teams

I actually have lost my fair share of games against Xforce and GT. I will deal with Xforce first, but sometimes cascades will give GT enough AP for power surge. Then the red ap and blue roll more, and eventually I lose to a smite and sometimes striking distance.

The truth is that regardless the defensive team, as long as people go in with full boosts, they should win 90% of the time.

Pylgrim

atomzed wrote:

3uphoria wrote:

You are absolutely worthless on defense. I never lose to you and you net me 0 defensive wins. I miss putting Lazy Thor and OBW on defense and going positive 60-90.

P.S.
You just got crushed 3 times by MMags and XF. You make me sick...

Let's talk about good defensive teams

I actually have lost my fair share of games against Xforce and GT. I will deal with Xforce first, but sometimes cascades will give GT enough AP for power surge. Then the red ap and blue roll more, and eventually I lose to a smite and sometimes striking distance.

The truth is that regardless the defensive team, as long as people go in with full boosts, they should win 90% of the time.

Ad that is entirely fine. It's already bad that after each victory past 700 points I'm greeted with the noticed that I was attacked for almost as much as I just gained. When I get that notice after losing points in a defeat, it's just too crippling.

Unknown

3uphoria wrote:

You are absolutely worthless on defense. I never lose to you and you net me 0 defensive wins. I miss putting Lazy Thor and OBW on defense and going positive 60-90.

P.S.
You just got crushed 3 times by MMags and XF. You make me sick...

Let's talk about good defensive teams

The "best" defensive team is the bit you don't get to pick. If the featured hero is an impactful one and youhave them maxed it will get you some skips and/or defensive wins off ppl with loaners or lower level, undercovered versions.

That's about it really.

Unknown

The best defensive win is the defensive match you never had to fight because people get scared of Thor for no reason. In that respect she's an excellent defender even though I have no idea why people are scared of her, but it works.

It's exceedingly difficult to lose to Thor once you realized that the AI cannot do a Smite after a Power Surge in the same turn under any circumstance. Before a Power Surge, just match any available red matches on the board and you'll be fine. Sure, I have some really bizarre cases where the AI Power Surge into a triple blue charged tile twice and stunned my team for 2 turns but that's probably on par with a miracle cascade level of luck, and I think I actually won that game fairly easily since the there was something like 25 charged tiles on the board but the AI obviously doesn't even try to get them and let me collect them just fine.

Unknown

The irony is because of 4Thor, defense in MPQ is a moot concept.

No team is a defensive team whenever everyone can get Instakilled quickly with boosts. Only defense is shields. Props to OBW for at least making it somewhat challenging with her 3k health.

Unknown

The most wins I've had recently is leaving Loki in with Xforce, some people must just find it impossible to leave a 4 or 5 match.

Unknown

Dear Thoress, disregard the hate on your defensive worthiness, I see what you are able to bring to the table. I only attack you because I have no other choice in order to get more points you are impossible to avoid. Your greatest strengths on defense is not only your abilities to swing the probabilities heavily in your favor, it's also your hit points and the time it takes to put you down. Much like everyone has pointed out, there are no strong defensive teams, however, there are strong defensive deterrents because they impede the offensive players ability to shield hop quickly. For the haves versus have nots, this is a strong advantage on defense which probably goes overlooked.

I have lost to you on several occasions even boosted because 9 Blue just isn't that hard to get and they really complain a lot about surgical strike but power surge swings the probabilities of victory almost as equally and it takes several surge strikes and xforces just to bring you down.

I can't wait to attain all your covers so I only have to worry about the top 1-5% actually attacking me as opposed to the other 95% that really have no fear of my thoress missing roster.

Regards,
Beast mode, epic kind

Unknown

A defensive team has risen:

IF + Xforce.

I've been on the forums so far today for 5 minutes and this is all I can come up with to say.

There is no appropriate offensive approach to that team.

Unknown

onimus wrote:

A defensive team has risen:

IF + Xforce.

I've been on the forums so far today for 5 minutes and this is all I can come up with to say.

There is no appropriate offensive approach to that team.

I think the game favors offense too much in general but a team like IF + X Force is definitely too hard to attack for the game to be enjoyable, and is certainly not workable in the current health pack system. I understand they want PvP to be more back and forth instead of just rolling over teams as fast as you can with some broken combo but if every team is X Force + IF, you'd have a hard time winning 5 of those games without using up 5 health packs just from the guaranteed damage done by his black and that is too few games in the time frame PvP takes places in.

Unknown

You thought there is such thing as good defensive teams?

Unknown

Hey All

Miles from Demiurge here to let you know about some new character updates that are coming soon to Marvel Puzzle Quest.

Thor (Goddess of Thunder) - Coming 3/23/15

Working on Ragnarok gave us an opportunity to rethink how we were valuing Charged tiles. It’s clear that we’ve been undercosting them, and we felt it was important to go back and update Thor (Goddess of Thunder) using the new thinking.

Smite - Old - 10 AP
The gathering lightning strikes Mjolnir as Thor brings the hammer down onto her enemy. Deals 630 damage to the enemy and an additional 137 damage for each Charged tile on the board.
Level 2 - Deals 886 damage plus 183 per charged tile.
Level 3 - Deals 968 damage plus 219 per charged tile. Make 2 charged tiles.
Level 4 - Deals 1388 damage plus 320 per charged tile. Make 3 charged tiles.
Level 5 - Deals 1717 damage plus 365 per charged tile. Make 4 charged tiles.
MAX Level 5: Deals 3409 damage plus 725 per charged tile. Makes 4 charged tiles.

Smite - New - 10 AP
The gathering lightning strikes Mjolnir as Thor brings the hammer down onto her enemy. Deals 630 damage to the enemy and an additional 137 damage for each Charged tile on the board.
Level 2 - Deals 886 damage plus 183 per charged tile.
Level 3 - Deals 1023 damage plus 219 per charged tile. Makes 1 charged tile.
Level 4 - Deals 1324 damage plus 292 per charged tile. Makes 2 charged tiles.
Level 5 - Deals 2027 damage plus 365 per charged tile. Makes 3 charged tiles.
MAX Level 5: Deals 4025 damage plus 725 per charged tile. Makes 3 charged tiles.

Striking Distance - Old - 12 AP
Thor flings Mjolnir at an impossible speed towards her enemies, the impact dashing their plan of attack. Deals 356 damage to the enemy team and converts 1 enemy Strike, Protect, or Attack tile into a charged tile.
Level 2 - Deals 356 team damage. Turns 2 enemy Strike, Protect, or Attack tiles into charged tiles.
Level 3 - Deals 593 team damage. Turns 3 enemy Strike, Protect, or Attack tiles into charged tiles.
Level 4 - Deals 593 team damage. Turns 3 enemy Strike, Protect, Attack, or Countdown tiles into charged tiles.
Level 5 - Deal 1150 team damage. Turns 5 enemy Strike, Protect, Attack, or Countdown tiles into charged tiles.
MAX Level 5: Deals 2284 team damage. Turns 5 Strike, Protect, Attack, or Countdown tiles into charged tiles.

Striking Distance - New - 12 AP
Thor flings Mjolnir at an impossible speed towards her enemies, the impact dashing their plan of attack. Deals 356 damage to the enemy team and converts 1 enemy Strike, Protect, or Attack tile into a charged tile.
Level 2 - Deals 402 team damage. Turns 2 enemy Strike, Protect, or Attack tiles into charged tiles
Level 3 - Deals 402 team damage. Turns 3 enemy Strike, Protect, or Attack tiles into charged tiles
Level 4 - Deals 739 team damage. Turns 3 enemy Strike, Protect, or Attack tiles into charged tiles
Level 5 - Deals 1086 team damage. Turns 3 Strike, Protect, Attack, or Countdown tiles into charged tiles.
MAX Level 5: Deals 2157 team damage. Turns 3 Strike, Protect, Attack, or Countdown tiles into charged tiles.


Power Surge - Old - 9 AP
Thor raises Mjolnir to the sky, summoning a lightning storm to shock and stagger her foes. Stuns the enemy for 1 turn and converts 3 random Red, Blue, or Yellow basic tiles into Charged tiles.
Level 2 - Stuns for 2 turns. Makes 3 charged tiles.
Level 3 - Stuns for 2 turns. Makes 4 charged tiles.
Level 4 - Stuns for 3 turns. Makes 5 charged tiles.
Level 5 - Stuns for 4 turns. Makes 12 charged tiles.

Power Surge - New - 9 AP
Thor raises Mjolnir to the sky, summoning a lightning storm to shock and stagger her foes. Stuns the enemy for 1 turn and converts 2 random Red, Blue, or Yellow basic tiles into Charged tiles.
Level 2 - Stuns for 1 turn. Makes 3 charged tiles.
Level 3 - Stuns for 1 turn. Makes 4 charged tiles.
Level 4 - Stuns for 2 turns. Makes 4 charged tiles.
Level 5 - Stuns for 3 turns. Makes 5 charged tiles.

[Extracted from original post. It and further discussion on the change can be found here].

***
Original post:

First up congrats to the ppl complaining about 4Thor... she got the nerf you wanted but did she get the nerf she deserved?

I'll start by saying... to the ppl claiming you can't use the fact that they screw up SO MANY attempts to balance heroes as a reason not to let them loose on another one after vociferous complaints (from the same 3 ppl) AND said we all had PTSD from other nerfs and needed to stop being so touchy... it appears we were right and you were wrong.... who knew that an obvious, repeated pattern made it more likely they would keep doing the same thing they had been doing? Oh right... it was **** obvious.

So... the nerf

Why change yellow? ****? What moron thought her yellow was OP? The fact it is a pile of **** (the damage is terrible and the conditional nature of gaining any charge tiles is of VERY limited value) was presumably the reason, but equally.... it's irrelevant. Her yellow is bad, so making it a bit worse has little impact.

Change to red? Not much of a change at all. Still not enough base damage for 10 AP, makes one less charge tile... basically a **** ability without power surging first

So... blue.

Her blue is what makes her tick. Without making charge tiles for her red she has basically no purpose... so from 12 to 5... that's a BIG nerf.... so is it reasonable...

Happily.. her blue isn't really an ability on it's own, it's part of the chain of blue into red which gives a stun and damage. It costs 19 AP in 2 colours... if only we had a good comparison of another hero who is 4*, is useful and has 2 abilities that add up to 19... EUREKA!

4Thor, 19 AP 3 turn stun, charge tiles that ANYONE can match and 7650 damage.

Xforce, 19 AP, about 9k damage, reduces enemy colour by up to 10, generates on average 8AP of that colour for you which is immediately availible, can destroy enemy special tiles (and your own admittedly) AND cascades on average more than 6 tiles between the 2 abilties

Which is better? Which is a LOT better? Any ideas?

It's like the devs can't even do **** maths. Someone even sent them a book to help but apparently they didn't **** read it... ANOTHER stupid over nerf. Another example of a blatant pattern. Another hero that ppl spent money on being functionally busted open after they got their greedy hands on your cash.... what a **** surprise.

And one last time... to the ppl saying we can't act like we have PTSD every time a nerf is mentioned... seems you were totally wrong (again with ANOTHER hero) so next time you want to champion a nerf at least be honest and admit you're asking for a hero to be broken.

Unknown

It does suck and we just have to adapt. But I've certainly lost motivation to play.