**** Thor (Goddess of Thunder) **** [PRE 2015-03]

Arondite

Smite

POWER COST 10
The gathering lightning strikes Mjolnir as Thor brings the hammer down onto her enemy. Deals 630 damage to the enemy and an additional 137 damage for each Charged tile on the board, then converts X random Basic Red, Blue or Yellow tiles into Charged tiles.

At Max Level:
Level 3: Deals 2400 damage, plus 425 per Charged tile. Places 1 Charged Tile. Damage caps at 5 Charged tiles.
Level 4: Deals 4350 damage plus 425 per charged tile. Places 1 charged tile. Damage caps at 7 Charged tiles.
Level 5: Deals 4350 damage plus 725 per Charged tile, places 2 Charged tiles. Damage caps at 10 Charged Tiles (Max 11,600 Damage).

Striking Distance
POWER COST 12
Thor flings Mjolnir at an impossible speed towards her enemies, the impact dashing their plan of attack. Deals 356 damage to the enemy team and converts 1 random enemy Strike, Attack, Protect or Countdown tile into Charged tiles


At Max Level:
Level 3: Deals 1443 to the enemy team, then converts 2 random enemy Strike, Attack or Protect tiles into Charged Tiles.
Level 4: Can also convert Countdown tiles.
Level 5: Deals 3750 damage to the target, 2800 to the enemy team, then converts 4 selected enemy Special tiles into charged tiles.

Power Surge
POWER COST 11Thor raises Mjolnir to the sky, summoning a lightning storm to shock and stagger her foes. Stuns the enemy for 1 turns and converts 3 random Red, Blue or Yellow basic tiles into Charged tiles.

Level Upgrades:
Level 3: Creates 3 Charged tiles.
Level 4: Stuns for 3 turns and create 5 Charged tiles.
Level 5: Stuns for 3 turns and create 7 Charged tiles.

Unknown

Thank you for your tips !!!
This game is a money sucking machine.

Unknown

Good job. I agree with all but yellow. I think yellow should do more damage, but I understand that's the balance for destroying special tiles and creating charged tiles. But like the red working with a mechanism similar to KYE for Blade.

Dartmaster01

This would have been more appropriate.

Arondite

Because someone in the office relayed a message incorrectly.

Balance Team Member Number 1: "Hey, we've made some balance changes, Jim. We need you to program this in for us ; reduce Thoress Blue by 5 tiles - from 12 to 7 charged tiles created. Thanks."

Programmer Jim: "Okay, can do."

Programmer Jim: *accidentally inputs the numbers incorrectly, reduces 12 tiles by 7, to 5 tiles.*

Programmer Jim: "Alright, customer relations guys - Balance team had me make a change so you guys need to tell them. I reduces Thoress Blue by 7 tiles, from 12 to 5."


Curse you, Jim.

NorthernPolarity

I dislike the damage cap on red mechanic since it makes the ability more confusing than it needs to be. A smaller nerf to 8 charge tiles would probably have been enough to both keep her balanced enough to not cause the mass hysteria we're seeing now.

GuntherBlobel

Am I the first to suggest that the problem with Thor was actually Ragnarok's blue charged tiles fueling Power Surge, then back to Thunderclap?

IceIX specifically mentioned that Ragnarok was delayed because of how he interacted with another character. That's 4* Thor and Power Surge, no doubt.

Ok, so Ragnarok sucks, but now we can have Gambit!

Mawtful

I've got no doubt that the introduction of another character which creates charged tiles resulted in Thor's nerf. I think the fear was that Smite's damage was just going to start blowing out to huge numbers. Having more charged tiles out on a colour that she isn't going to match away means more for Smite to count. The fact that Ragnarok's charge generation is tied to his Red and it creates only a small number even when maxed, really means that this isn't an issue. Even at 6 AP, you're not going to use Red for 3 extra charged tiles if Thor has the AP for Smite.

However I imagine that this does bode well for an eventual charged tile generating Gambit. In the post, Miles does state that they have readdressed the how they were valuing charged tiles (evidently, they were under valued).

Given the way Smite works, I don't think it should generate Charged Tiles at all. Perhaps if it was a cheap, fast attack, which dealt a smaller base damage but scaled higher based on number of Charge Tiles, then yes. That would essentially make it similar to Psylocke's Red, but gaining strength rather than reducing cost per cast.

I can't think of any good reason for nerfing Yellow. It's already relatively expensive and provided a relatively rare "support" type functionality of being able to remove enemy specials in bulk.

Blue was definitely overpowered/undercosted for Rank 5. The jump to 12 Charged Tiles was a bit much. I think 7 does seem like a reasonable amount, especially considered the reduced stun as well. Actually 9 AP for 3 turn stun and 7 charge tiles seems pretty spot on to me.

So yes, I do feel as though the Thor nerf was done in order to accommodate additional charge generators. Perhaps if characters like Gambit and Electro join the game then there will be a nice "charge team" added to the meta. But who knows how far away that is?

Unknown

Arondite wrote:

Because someone in the office relayed a message incorrectly.

Balance Team Member Number 1: "Hey, we've made some balance changes, Jim. We need you to program this in for us ; reduce Thoress Blue by 5 tiles - from 12 to 7 charged tiles created. Thanks."

Programmer Jim: "Okay, can do."

Programmer Jim: *accidentally inputs the numbers incorrectly, reduces 12 tiles by 7, to 5 tiles.*

Programmer Jim: "Alright, customer relations guys - Balance team had me make a change so you guys need to tell them. I reduces Thoress Blue by 7 tiles, from 12 to 5."


Curse you, Jim.

Ok I had to do this.

Mawtful

Edit: Cropped due to repeating myself.

Here's my take, extrapolated from something I already posted in another thread:

I think it's clear that the concern was that the damage on Smite would just start to blow out exponentially as more Charged Tile (CT) generators are added to the game. As it stands, Striking Distance was strong but expensive, and Power Surge doesn't deal damage anyway. In a way, Thor suffers from a similar problem as Spider-Man - Charged Tiles operate as an extra resource which she needs to manage, just like Spidey needs Webs for all his stuff to be truly effective. Just like webs, CTs don't swear allegiance to their creator and can be used by either team - so you also need to babysit them, or try and make use of them as soon as you add them to the board.

So I wrote up a change, and by the time I got to the end, I came up with additional tweaks which I think make for a much more interesting overall package. My original thoughts are in the spoiler tag, incase you're wondering what led me to my end goal.

Given the way Smite works currently (that is, increased damage per CT), I think there are two options for changing this ability.
1. Cheaper cost, lower base damage, increased damage from CTs, creates up to 4 CTs (Blue and Yellow only).
Essentially a different take on Psylocke's Red - which damage increases per cast, but the cost remains the same.
2. Consumes CTs for the damage increase.
Essentially, leave the ability more or less as is, but take those Charge Tiles off the board to get the extra damage. This stops the Power Surge > Smite > collect more red/blue while enemy stunned > Power Surge > Smite "infinite"* combo.

Personally, I think I prefer the first option.

Striking Distance didn't need any changes at all. It was relatively expensive already - even if you match 3 yellow CTs, you still need at least one more match to use Striking Distance. The functionality to remove multiple special tiles is relatively rare as well, so it would be quite nice to keep that. Still, that's reactionary, so you're not always going to be getting value from it.

Power Surge's only problem was the jump to 12 CTs at rank 5. Where did that number come from? Combined with a 4 turn stun, it was just ludicrous. I think tuning the numbers down to 3 turns and 7 CTs for the 9 AP cost is fine. Given that I'm changing Smite, let's bring Surge to 6 CTs generated, but only red and yellow.

Smite
7 AP, lower damage, no increase based on Charged Tiles, charges up to 6 tiles (Blue and Yellow only)

Power Surge
10 AP, stun caps at 3 tuns, converts up to 4 enemy special tiles into basic red or yellow tiles, charges up to 4 tiles (Red and Yellow only)

Striking Distance
I want to change the mechanics of this ability to something unique, but which mirrors the way in which Thor attacks multiple enemies in the comics so far.

Thor throws Mjolnir and it flies about the battlefield, bouncing from one enemy to the next.
Deals X damage to target enemy and pushes them to the back of their team. Destroy a random Charged Tile (does not generate AP) and attack again.

Additional ranks would increase damage and the number of charged tiles Mjolnir will ricochet off - up to all (?) charged tiles.

This is a unique way to deal "team" damage, by firing off multiple attacks but switching target each time. I think maybe the first hit should be a big hit (maybe ~4k damage) and then each additional hit at a weaker (~1k) damage value.

Smite and Surge power each other (but not themselves) and build towards Striking Distance. I pushed the special tile removal onto Surge, but you'll still likely get the full effect of the charged tiles even if the opponent has no specials. Smite is a lot more spammable, and you want to use it to fuel Yellow and pump charged tiles so you can unleash team damage with a huge Mjolnir ricochet.

I think you'd also need to consider exactly how to build a Thor with those powers. Smite and Surge at rank 5 will help fuel your damage ability faster, but it'll be weaker/richochet less at Rank 3. Pushing striking distance to rank 5 will maximise damage, etc.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I dislike the damage cap on red mechanic since it makes the ability more confusing than it needs to be. A smaller nerf to 8 charge tiles would probably have been enough to both keep her balanced enough to not cause the mass hysteria we're seeing now.

It's not hysteria to point out something is wrong and TBH it's getting a bit old with you repeatedly dismissing valid concerns as emotional excess. The fact so many ppl are pointing it out shows that the changes are bollocks, not that everyone has become hysterical.

If anything this strongly implies your opinions are in the minority and out of touch.

Unknown

Maybe with Ragnarok coming out they were told specifically to find out if there was a problem with Ragnarok and Thor. With so much pressure on them to find a problem they did. And then they overnerfed again.

simonsez

GuntherBlobel wrote:

Am I the first to suggest that the problem with Thor was actually Ragnarok's blue charged tiles fueling Power Surge, then back to Thunderclap?

GT was fine with no help from Rags. With his **** new abilities, no one was going to be using him, regardless of GT interaction.

Unknown

Guys... the charge tiles Ragnarok makes are with blue AP... you can't do it AND power surge.... their interaction was non-existent unless on other teams so it's not a reason to have impacted her at all.

Also the extra 4 (IIRC) charge tiles he might make when on the other team isn't a massive deal for her pre-nerf. It wouldn't particularly matter in practical terms since her own health was the only thing she couldn't one hit and Rag + 4Thor is an anti-combo cause of blue clash. So there would never be an issue where Rags was on the other team and the charge tiles he made mattered.... and no way you would combo him with 4Thor in your own team.

As for the OP... as much as I would like to think it was a mistake and they'll rectify it i'm pretty certain it's intentional and on past form probably won't change.

Also thunderclap is pretty ropey as a skill... average at best. I don't think it's worth building any strat round using it. You would be better off saving those 6 red to use Smite.

Unknown

Isn't Rags charge generation on blue, IE the same color they nerfed 4Thor so badly on?

If he was making charges with AP she couldn't use herself then that might be an issue. I ~hope~ this means there is already another charge tile maker in the release lineup and it is that character that they were worried about things getting too out of hand with.

GrumpySmurf1002

Cryptobrancus wrote:

Isn't Rags charge generation on blue, IE the same color they nerfed 4Thor so badly on?

If he was making charges with AP she couldn't use herself then that might be an issue. I ~hope~ this means there is already another charge tile maker in the release lineup and it is that character that they were worried about things getting too out of hand with.

This has been my other thought as well. It doesn't even have to be another charged tile generator persay, but if someone in the pipeline has an interaction with 4Thor then it's a potential problem.

It also could simply be Rags red generating blue, with 4Thor as she was, generated so many (red/blue) charged tiles that the fact Godlike Power and Smite share a color was irrelevant because of the volume of potential stun-locking.

GuntherBlobel

bonfire01 wrote:

Guys... the charge tiles Ragnarok makes are with blue AP... you can't do it AND power surge.... their interaction was non-existent unless on other teams so it's not a reason to have impacted her at all.

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

Thunderclap - Cost: 6
Thunderclap didn’t change much. Instead of creating Green tiles, Thunderclap now creates Blue tiles to feed into Ragnarok’s new power. Damage numbers and numbers of tiles created are unchanged.

Oops!! Many apologizes to the general forum. I saw "Instead of creating Green tiles, Thunderclap now creates Blue tiles to feed into Ragnarok’s new power" as a reference to his green charged tiles, but I was wrong. Still, if I had a 4* Thor, I'd use Thunderclap to feed the old Power Surge 100% of the time.

Arondite

bonfire01 wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I dislike the damage cap on red mechanic since it makes the ability more confusing than it needs to be. A smaller nerf to 8 charge tiles would probably have been enough to both keep her balanced enough to not cause the mass hysteria we're seeing now.

It's not hysteria to point out something is wrong and TBH it's getting a bit old with you repeatedly dismissing valid concerns as emotional excess. The fact so many ppl are pointing it out shows that the changes are bollocks, not that everyone has become hysterical.

If anything this strongly implies your opinions are in the minority and out of touch.

The reactions are probably closer to hysteria than reasonable logical discourse, lol.

"Thor unusable, I'll never pay another dime!"
"Thor is meh now, not even good! I'm quitting"

The best / second best character in the game was reduced to top 10 definitely, most likely top 5, and this is after she's had time to generate decent value for everyone who's been using her. And she will continue to generate value for those who continue to. Acting like she's unusable is hysteria lol.

If anything, Iron Fist is a better reason to be up in arms. His nerf was reasonable, yes, but the changes coming so quickly after release is a bit unsavory.

Arondite

Could be that we can expect to see more characters who will be generating charged tiles period, ex gambit, Vulcan, Sebastian shaw, etc

If that's the case, it makes sense to reduce the amount of charged tiles each character produces since things could get crazy really fast if you have someone with a blue that drops 12 of the bastards

Unknown

GuntherBlobel wrote:

bonfire01 wrote:

Guys... the charge tiles Ragnarok makes are with blue AP... you can't do it AND power surge.... their interaction was non-existent unless on other teams so it's not a reason to have impacted her at all.

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

Thunderclap - Cost: 6
Thunderclap didn’t change much. Instead of creating Green tiles, Thunderclap now creates Blue tiles to feed into Ragnarok’s new power. Damage numbers and numbers of tiles created are unchanged.

Oops!! Many apologizes to the general forum. I saw "Instead of creating Green tiles, Thunderclap now creates Blue tiles to feed into Ragnarok’s new power" as a reference to his green charged tiles, but I was wrong. Still, if I had a 4* Thor, I'd use Thunderclap to feed the old Power Surge 100% of the time.

I don't have a 4Thor so forgive my ignorance...You would use red to charge blue over using red to smite with?