**** Thor (Goddess of Thunder) **** [PRE 2015-03]

kensterr

Why ask for a nerf instead of asking for new characters to counterbalance XF/TGT?

Unknown

Mattfal wrote:

camichan wrote:

Mattfal wrote:

Both xforce and thour need nerfs, but for different reasons. Xforce needs a NERF because he is so much faster than everyone else in the game. Thour needs a NERF because her massive health allows her to have the time to collect the ap to use her op powers. I do feel like 4* should be better than 3*, but i think they should be closer to nick fury power (but not too close) than god-like power

How many Nick Fury covers did you buy?

I bought zero.

(There's a reason why.)

0 as well. I was using fury as an example of a balanced character. I still want xforce and tgt to be at the top, just not so far away from high tier 3*

Fury is not a good example. It's like comparing loki to Lt. One is the main battle person, damage is their thing. The other is a support character.

Unknown

kensterr wrote:

Why ask for a nerf instead of asking for new characters to counterbalance XF/TGT?

I like this idea. I also understand why many will say it's not a good solution to OP characters. And their reasoning is logical.

Having said that, I'd love to see MPQ arrive at some sort of rock, paper, scissors type of balance (apart and separate from discussion of character balancing). Each character would have a nemesis/foil character that is particularly effective at countering them. This kind of balance would be quite difficult to achieve, maybe impossible, but it would be awesome if it did. I suggested in a previous thread that bag lady should be buffed in a way that can counter 4hor. Some power that messes with charged tiles, or stun immunity during invisibility, etc...

To counter X-force, who's primary asset is fast damage, would be a challenge -- you'd probably need a foil character to have some sort of passive that trips up Xforce -- perhaps something in the style of Hood.

Unknown

Unless you have something like passive: "Extra effective against a guy who has green, yellow, and black as his primary colors", whoever can counter X Force will be the next imbalance.

Unknown

She's a top tier 4*. She's supposed to be overpowered. It gives you something to work towards. If she sucked then why would anyone struggle or pay to get her? If she's gonna have 3* health and 3* damage you might as well make her a 3* and give her away like candy. That way everyone on earth has her maxed and PvP is the same across the board. No reason to overachieve or even try if Thoress is as easy to get as a 2*. Hell, might as well just quit altogether because getting 3*'s is just too easy, PvE is a joke/waste of time and what fun would PvP be if getting to number 1 yielded a 4* character that could barely take down Lazy Thor? My roster ins't even close to being top tier and even when all I had was Thor/OBW I never cried nerf once. I wanted those characters strong so when I got them I could do work. Not get trashed by the next random player with developed 3*'s.

Unknown

camichan wrote:

kensterr wrote:

Why ask for a nerf instead of asking for new characters to counterbalance XF/TGT?

I like this idea. I also understand why many will say it's not a good solution to OP characters. And their reasoning is logical.

Having said that, I'd love to see MPQ arrive at some sort of rock, paper, scissors type of balance (apart and separate from discussion of character balancing). Each character would have a nemesis/foil character that is particularly effective at countering them. This kind of balance would be quite difficult to achieve, maybe impossible, but it would be awesome if it did. I suggested in a previous thread that bag lady should be buffed in a way that can counter 4hor. Some power that messes with charged tiles, or stun immunity during invisibility, etc...

To counter X-force, who's primary asset is fast damage, would be a challenge -- you'd probably need a foil character to have some sort of passive that trips up Xforce -- perhaps something in the style of Hood.

Almost a good suggestion but then everyone would be using counter characters 24/7. I use thoress/xf (for sake of argument I'm just gonna throw out random chars) then you have to use IW/Blade (xf/thoress counter characters) Then I have to counter IW/Blade with Daken/Thor and that chain would never end until every PvP you've used every counter character available. You'd have to have an entirely maxed roster to achieve any success with that kind of system in place.

kensterr

How's this for some far-fetched ideas?

Absorbing Man - Absorbs damage from XF something like Colossus and Elektra. Powersurge doesn't work on him
Quicksilver - Runs too fast and direct brute force doesn't quite work on him. Strike tiles and trap tiles is the answer etc

There are so many Marvel characters for Demiurge to play with to counter XF/TGT powers. Demiurge can even start introducing some telepaths (Omega level, not Psylocke) who can stun or use XF/TGT powers against themselves via mind-control etc - Jean Grey Summers (Phoenix), Emma Frost, Franklin Richards, Quintavius Quire, Cable, Legion. Even Iceman is considered Omega level mutant! Or introduce some proper villains like Onslaught. Apocalypse and Thanos.

Do we still need nerfing after the what they have done to Ragnarok, 2* Thor, 2* Wolverine, OBW, Spider-man, Magneto and Sentry?

Arondite

Phantron wrote:

Unless you have something like passive: "Extra effective against a guy who has green, yellow, and black as his primary colors", whoever can counter X Force will be the next imbalance.

Pretty much.

Unknown

3uphoria wrote:

Almost a good suggestion but then everyone would be using counter characters 24/7. I use thoress/xf (for sake of argument I'm just gonna throw out random chars) then you have to use IW/Blade (xf/thoress counter characters) Then I have to counter IW/Blade with Daken/Thor and that chain would never end until every PvP you've used every counter character available. You'd have to have an entirely maxed roster to achieve any success with that kind of system in place.

I disagree. I think it would be fine. Yes, you would have a never ending chain of character/foil combos that can counter any other set of characters. What's wrong with this? It would be a situation where no two characters is always the best combo against all other combos. [It also potentially offers possibilities for "yomi layer 3" type stuff, as described by David Sirlin.]

In real life fighting, it often turns out strangely like this. I'm out of date with the current mixed martial arts (MMA) scene, so to use an inaccurate but illustrative example, you'd often see something like Matt Hughes consistently beats Royce Gracie, but Royce Gracie beats the guy who Matt Hughes could never beat and consistently lost to. Oddly, it sometimes turned out this way leaving one to draw the conclusion that there isn't any single fighter who's the best against all other fighters.

Arondite

3uphoria wrote:

She's a top tier 4*. She's supposed to be overpowered. It gives you something to work towards. If she sucked then why would anyone struggle or pay to get her? If she's gonna have 3* health and 3* damage you might as well make her a 3* and give her away like candy. That way everyone on earth has her maxed and PvP is the same across the board. No reason to overachieve or even try if Thoress is as easy to get as a 2*. Hell, might as well just quit altogether because getting 3*'s is just too easy, PvE is a joke/waste of time and what fun would PvP be if getting to number 1 yielded a 4* character that could barely take down Lazy Thor? My roster ins't even close to being top tier and even when all I had was Thor/OBW I never cried nerf once. I wanted those characters strong so when I got them I could do work. Not get trashed by the next random player with developed 3*'s.

No one is asking for her to be nerfed to 3* level, they're calling for her to drop down to the same level as other 4*'s. Are you honestly contesting that 9k damage would be underpowered, or that a 3 turn stun with all those tiles would lack oomph and can be topped by a 3*?

And literally no one has called for her health to be reduced, so idk where that came from lol

Unknown

First off, OP, what does your roster look like? have you ever actually played with a max Lady Thor? The way you are talking makes it seem not. It is not only 19 ap needed to kill two guys. It is also not a perfect board where you get all your red / blue needed right away. Thoress can be verrry slow going with a bad board or with a hood on the enemy team. There are many times where you will have enough blue or red but not the other. Assuming you have enough for the stun. Sometimes there aren't any red matches or even red tiles out there so you use it and then you may not ever get the red you need to cast smite. O maybe if you do, most of your charged tiles are gone and you then have to collect enough blue again before you can use the red.

Let's just say you get lucky. and have enough to do the combo. 10 red and 9 blue. That kills one guy and stuns one guy. Why is nobody talking about the third guy matching all your charged tiles with you? They are getting super charged up for their powers all the while stealing them from you so you either don't get enough red or blue to do anything. Or if you do, all the charge tiles have been matched away so you then have to get 9 blue again before you can smite again effectively. There is a lot that can go wrong / is random. In a perfect world you would do your combo and have it line up a match 3 blue all charged and get another stun which then charges all the red on the board but that mostly never happens. The way you are looking at it is on paper, with a perfect board / perfect power surge. If you have actually played her extensively you will know it hardly ever goes perfect like that. She is a very powerful character but does not need a nerf. Hood can really screw her day up and I was constantly taking her down with hood deadpool xf before I got my own.

Arondite

sms4002 wrote:

First off, OP, what does your roster look like? have you ever actually played with a max Lady Thor? The way you are talking makes it seem not. It is not only 19 ap needed to kill two guys. It is also not a perfect board where you get all your red / blue needed right away. Thoress can be verrry slow going with a bad board or with a hood on the enemy team. There are many times where you will have enough blue or red but not the other. Assuming you have enough for the stun. Sometimes there aren't any red matches or even red tiles out there so you use it and then you may not ever get the red you need to cast smite. O maybe if you do, most of your charged tiles are gone and you then have to collect enough blue again before you can use the red.

Let's just say you get lucky. and have enough to do the combo. 10 red and 9 blue. That kills one guy and stuns one guy. Why is nobody talking about the third guy matching all your charged tiles with you? They are getting super charged up for their powers all the while stealing them from you so you either don't get enough red or blue to do anything. Or if you do, all the charge tiles have been matched away so you then have to get 9 blue again before you can smite again effectively. There is a lot that can go wrong / is random. In a perfect world you would do your combo and have it line up a match 3 blue all charged and get another stun which then charges all the red on the board but that mostly never happens. The way you are looking at it is on paper, with a perfect board / perfect power surge. If you have actually played her extensively you will know it hardly ever goes perfect like that. She is a very powerful character but does not need a nerf. Hood can really screw her day up and I was constantly taking her down with hood deadpool xf before I got my own.

They're not talking about the third guy because you don't do the combo against 3 guys, you do it after one has been downed.

Have you ever used a maxed Thoress?

Shadow

Mattfal wrote:

Both xforce and thour need nerfs, but for different reasons. Xforce needs a NERF because he is so much faster than everyone else in the game. Thour needs a NERF because her massive health allows her to have the time to collect the ap to use her op powers. I do feel like 4* should be better than 3*, but i think they should be closer to nick fury power (but not too close) than god-like power

Seriously, stop saying TGT has too much health. A tank has generally 1.5x health the baseline health for any particular star rating. Why should 4* be any different.

Generally, tanks of a particular star rating are comparable in health to the glass of the star rating above it.

IM35 2700 health comparable to C Storm 2940 health.
Ares 5880 health comparable to Human Torch 5950 health.
3* tanks have around 10k health and Nick Fury has 9590 health.

And tanks of a particular star rating are about 1.5x the standard health rating for that star level.

2* standard health is around 4k and tanks in 2* land have around 6k health.
3* standard health is 6800 and tanks in the 3* range have around 10k health.

For 4*, if we take XF or even StarLord as being the standard health characters, then TGT at 16k health simply follows the same pattern as the lower tier stars.

Saying that TGT has too much health is the same as a 2* player complaining that a 3* tank at 10k has too much health.

Unknown

Arondite wrote:

sms4002 wrote:

First off, OP, what does your roster look like? have you ever actually played with a max Lady Thor? The way you are talking makes it seem not. It is not only 19 ap needed to kill two guys. It is also not a perfect board where you get all your red / blue needed right away. Thoress can be verrry slow going with a bad board or with a hood on the enemy team. There are many times where you will have enough blue or red but not the other. Assuming you have enough for the stun. Sometimes there aren't any red matches or even red tiles out there so you use it and then you may not ever get the red you need to cast smite. O maybe if you do, most of your charged tiles are gone and you then have to collect enough blue again before you can use the red.

Let's just say you get lucky. and have enough to do the combo. 10 red and 9 blue. That kills one guy and stuns one guy. Why is nobody talking about the third guy matching all your charged tiles with you? They are getting super charged up for their powers all the while stealing them from you so you either don't get enough red or blue to do anything. Or if you do, all the charge tiles have been matched away so you then have to get 9 blue again before you can smite again effectively. There is a lot that can go wrong / is random. In a perfect world you would do your combo and have it line up a match 3 blue all charged and get another stun which then charges all the red on the board but that mostly never happens. The way you are looking at it is on paper, with a perfect board / perfect power surge. If you have actually played her extensively you will know it hardly ever goes perfect like that. She is a very powerful character but does not need a nerf. Hood can really screw her day up and I was constantly taking her down with hood deadpool xf before I got my own.

They're not talking about the third guy because you don't do the combo against 3 guys, you do it after one has been downed.

Have you ever used a maxed Thoress?

good luck trying to hold onto all that ap while hood steals it. Like I said. It's clear you have never used lady thor at high level. Do you even have 3 stars? she is easily taken down in pvp. Stop complaining about nothing.

Arondite

sms4002 wrote:

Arondite wrote:

sms4002 wrote:

First off, OP, what does your roster look like? have you ever actually played with a max Lady Thor? The way you are talking makes it seem not. It is not only 19 ap needed to kill two guys. It is also not a perfect board where you get all your red / blue needed right away. Thoress can be verrry slow going with a bad board or with a hood on the enemy team. There are many times where you will have enough blue or red but not the other. Assuming you have enough for the stun. Sometimes there aren't any red matches or even red tiles out there so you use it and then you may not ever get the red you need to cast smite. O maybe if you do, most of your charged tiles are gone and you then have to collect enough blue again before you can use the red.

Let's just say you get lucky. and have enough to do the combo. 10 red and 9 blue. That kills one guy and stuns one guy. Why is nobody talking about the third guy matching all your charged tiles with you? They are getting super charged up for their powers all the while stealing them from you so you either don't get enough red or blue to do anything. Or if you do, all the charge tiles have been matched away so you then have to get 9 blue again before you can smite again effectively. There is a lot that can go wrong / is random. In a perfect world you would do your combo and have it line up a match 3 blue all charged and get another stun which then charges all the red on the board but that mostly never happens. The way you are looking at it is on paper, with a perfect board / perfect power surge. If you have actually played her extensively you will know it hardly ever goes perfect like that. She is a very powerful character but does not need a nerf. Hood can really screw her day up and I was constantly taking her down with hood deadpool xf before I got my own.

They're not talking about the third guy because you don't do the combo against 3 guys, you do it after one has been downed.

Have you ever used a maxed Thoress?

good luck trying to hold onto all that ap while hood steals it. Like I said. It's clear you have never used lady thor at high level. Do you even have 3 stars? she is easily taken down in pvp. Stop complaining about nothing.

I have a f2p account that's mid transition and a paying account with 2 270 thors, 270 wolv, 166 hood, 166 Loki, etc. Yes, I do play. It's true Thor doesn't like hood, but it's a damn good thing hood only sees 2 turns at high level play, huh? It's clear you've never touched the all-boost all-fours meta, or you'd know that.

Unknown

Arondite wrote:

sms4002 wrote:

good luck trying to hold onto all that ap while hood steals it. Like I said. It's clear you have never used lady thor at high level. Do you even have 3 stars? she is easily taken down in pvp. Stop complaining about nothing.

It's clear you've never touched the all-boost all-fours meta, or you'd know that.

Well that gave me a good chuckle this morning.

Unknown

Do we really need to have ALL characters "ok-ish" to average or bad so that transitioners be happy ?

Just because one loses against GThor or doesn't have her in his roster, he asks for a nerf ?

GThor is powerful when you boost her, but you can kill her even if you don't play her.

In a mirror match, if she stunned for 4 turns, and your GT is not stunned, provided you have your red AP ready, it's even easier to kill her back.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Unless you have something like passive: "Extra effective against a guy who has green, yellow, and black as his primary colors", whoever can counter X Force will be the next imbalance.

I just beat 3 max cover 200+ Xforces in a row in the gamorra LR using a lvl 102 Gamorra, max Daken, Max Blade using zero health packs and zero boosts (and 1 widows sting TU). Looks like I found a counter..... not being bad at MPQ

Unknown

Show a little more respect for our fine goddess of thunder, lest you be smote'en!

She's great, she's supposed to be great. And so is XF, what part of The Best There Is do people keep missing?

kensterr

Go have a read at current Thor #4. Mjolnir clearly loves her more than Odinson at the moment.