**** Thor (Goddess of Thunder) **** [PRE 2015-03]

Shadow

To add a bit more perspective to this, charged tiles are a mechanic that works both ways. On a board with lots of blue, deny the red. Let the AI power surge some other character (can be done since you can know when the surge will hit) and then hit with your own smite. I've actually done this so it is not theoretical. After 4 turns, XF recovers from the stun. Suddenly, the odds are in your favor.

Also, people seem to be forgetting that she's a 4*. 9K damage from a 4* by triggering 2 skills is actually on the weak side. The newer 3* are already hitting 7K range on a single skill which is good enough to down any of the 6800 health 3*. 3* Thor does 9K total damage fro 14 green and usually hits 2486 damage from Thunder Strike accelerating into hitting Call the Storm. Total damage of 11522. Her damage output is fine as it is. Power Surge can be worked into your favor as I mentioned above.

As for her health, it's fine as it is as well. 10K on a 4* is meant to be the equivalent of 6800 on a 3*. 16K on a 4* is supposed to be the equivalent of 10K on a 3* as well.

Therefore, the complaint seems to be coming from someone who either doesn't know how to play TGT properly or doesn't have a proper TGT to use.

Also, the XF-TGT pairing in PvP can be defeated quite consistently. I did it many times for several weeks before I had a working TGT of my own. Really, it's not that overpowered a combination as this thread is making it out to be. The secret of course is discovering how to do it but it can be done.

lokiagentofhotness

As I used to regularly beat XF/TGT teams with a 5/4/2 XF + Hulk / LCap, I don't think she's as OP as people say. You can also beat them with Patch/Hulk, so it's not like they're unbeatable without either an XF or a TGT.

People tend to use the same combos partly because it works, partly because they're just used to it. That's always going to be the case no matter what - why keep nerfing characters when new ones are just gonna come along and become the top tier?

I mean, I find Hood unbearable to fight because I don't have a 5 blue Hood and so I tend to skip him when I see him no matter who else is on the board - but I won't be calling for another Hood nerf. It's just the way the character is built and like TGT, you can beat him, it's just hard.

Arondite

Shadow wrote:

To add a bit more perspective to this, charged tiles are a mechanic that works both ways. On a board with lots of blue, deny the red. Let the AI power surge some other character (can be done since you can know when the surge will hit) and then hit with your own smite. I've actually done this so it is not theoretical. After 4 turns, XF recovers from the stun. Suddenly, the odds are in your favor.

Also, people seem to be forgetting that she's a 4*. 9K damage from a 4* by triggering 2 skills is actually on the weak side. The newer 3* are already hitting 7K range on a single skill which is good enough to down any of the 6800 health 3*. 3* Thor does 9K total damage fro 14 green and usually hits 2486 damage from Thunder Strike accelerating into hitting Call the Storm. Total damage of 11522. Her damage output is fine as it is. Power Surge can be worked into your favor as I mentioned above.

As for her health, it's fine as it is as well. 10K on a 4* is meant to be the equivalent of 6800 on a 3*. 16K on a 4* is supposed to be the equivalent of 10K on a 3* as well.

Therefore, the complaint seems to be coming from someone who either doesn't know how to play TGT properly or doesn't have a proper TGT to use.

Also, the XF-TGT pairing in PvP can be defeated quite consistently. I did it many times for several weeks before I had a working TGT of my own. Really, it's not that overpowered a combination as this thread is making it out to be. The secret of course is discovering how to do it but it can be done.

Lol. The complaint is clearly not one being levied against Thor on defense. On defense, she's a 16k puppet that can hurt if you goof up. Not to mention, we're discussing the problem of a 19 AP 2 person instant K-O. The AI can't even theoretically accomplish that due to color-order. We're clearly discussing how she's too potent on offense, rendering any defensive team helpless. And that's not theory, that's fact.

You've even detailed, in your post, the problem. She's so powerful on offense she renders opposing TGT trivial.

Unknown

Again, please call for fair refund/compensation options in parallel with calls to nerf Thoress and/or X-force.

The refund and compensation options need to be FAIR, and they currently are NOT. Many players rightfully get nervous hearing this nerf talk after they paid hard earned money for covers, and have been burned again and again by the previous nerfs. I bought Sentry and Mags covers in good faith only to watch these chars become virtual toilet seats in my current roster -- they remain nearly completely unused. Were the nerfs good for the game? Yes. Did some players get **** out of a hundred or more hard earned dollars from the nerfs without any meaningful compensation/refund? Yes.

A Thor/XF nerf without fair compensation will cause a big loss of credibility for the game. It will rightfully be viewed as a cash grab: Release a powerful char to sell covers short term, nerf later, and repeat the process.

Thank you for pushing for fair, responsible compensation along with responsible character balancing.

atomzed

camichan wrote:

Again, please call for fair refund/compensation options in parallel with calls to nerf Thoress and/or X-force.

Thank you for pushing for fair, responsible compensation along with responsible character balancing.

What would be considered fair if there's a rebalance now? It's good to hear your opinion on this matter.

Shadow

Arondite wrote:

Lol. The complaint is clearly not one being levied against Thor on defense. On defense, she's a 16k puppet that can hurt if you goof up. Not to mention, we're discussing the problem of a 19 AP 2 person instant K-O. The AI can't even theoretically accomplish that due to color-order. We're clearly discussing how she's too potent on offense, rendering any defensive team helpless. And that's not theory, that's fact.

You've even detailed, in your post, the problem. She's so powerful on offense she renders opposing TGT trivial.

Really? The reason why I run XF-TGT is because people tend to skip it more. I can think of at least 2 combinations that I'd rather use as my offense team if people were to leave them alone as much as they do XF-TGT. One of those combination is purely 3*.

Dauthi

Arondite wrote:

Shadow wrote:

To add a bit more perspective to this, charged tiles are a mechanic that works both ways. On a board with lots of blue, deny the red. Let the AI power surge some other character (can be done since you can know when the surge will hit) and then hit with your own smite. I've actually done this so it is not theoretical. After 4 turns, XF recovers from the stun. Suddenly, the odds are in your favor.

Also, people seem to be forgetting that she's a 4*. 9K damage from a 4* by triggering 2 skills is actually on the weak side. The newer 3* are already hitting 7K range on a single skill which is good enough to down any of the 6800 health 3*. 3* Thor does 9K total damage fro 14 green and usually hits 2486 damage from Thunder Strike accelerating into hitting Call the Storm. Total damage of 11522. Her damage output is fine as it is. Power Surge can be worked into your favor as I mentioned above.

As for her health, it's fine as it is as well. 10K on a 4* is meant to be the equivalent of 6800 on a 3*. 16K on a 4* is supposed to be the equivalent of 10K on a 3* as well.

Therefore, the complaint seems to be coming from someone who either doesn't know how to play TGT properly or doesn't have a proper TGT to use.

Also, the XF-TGT pairing in PvP can be defeated quite consistently. I did it many times for several weeks before I had a working TGT of my own. Really, it's not that overpowered a combination as this thread is making it out to be. The secret of course is discovering how to do it but it can be done.

Lol. The complaint is clearly not one being levied against Thor on defense. On defense, she's a 16k puppet that can hurt if you goof up. Not to mention, we're discussing the problem of a 19 AP 2 person instant K-O. The AI can't even theoretically accomplish that due to color-order. We're clearly discussing how she's too potent on offense, rendering any defensive team helpless. And that's not theory, that's fact.

You've even detailed, in your post, the problem. She's so powerful on offense she renders opposing TGT trivial.

When is the last time you played 3* thor? He was just buffed as a featured character and his green scaled was insane. When his combo starts its game over too, should he be nerfed?

To top it off 3* Thor is beast on defense too, while TGT flops terribly. The double edged nature of her charged tiles can backfire, though I would imagine this should be infrequent on the offensive.

Whenever I fight X-Force/TGT i always target XForce because he is by far the threat with his extremely low cost green that hurts and cascades, and his black single-handedly wrecking your game, no combos needed here folks. Even doing this I have only ever been hit by TGT's combo once, her costs are just too high, thus the power her combo should unleash should be high when it gets going.

lokiagentofhotness

Shadow wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Lol. The complaint is clearly not one being levied against Thor on defense. On defense, she's a 16k puppet that can hurt if you goof up. Not to mention, we're discussing the problem of a 19 AP 2 person instant K-O. The AI can't even theoretically accomplish that due to color-order. We're clearly discussing how she's too potent on offense, rendering any defensive team helpless. And that's not theory, that's fact.

You've even detailed, in your post, the problem. She's so powerful on offense she renders opposing TGT trivial.

Really? The reason why I run XF-TGT is because people tend to skip it more. I can think of at least 2 combinations that I'd rather use as my offense team if people were to leave them alone as much as they do XF-TGT. One of those combination is purely 3*.

I would take on an XF-TGT over an XF/Hood any day, with or without my own TGT. But yeah I think XF-TGT have a bit of a scarecrow effect that's not actually warranted.

Raffoon

camichan wrote:

Again, please call for fair refund/compensation options in parallel with calls to nerf Thoress and/or X-force.

The refund and compensation options need to be FAIR, and they currently are NOT. Many players rightfully get nervous hearing this nerf talk after they paid hard earned money for covers, and have been burned again and again by the previous nerfs. I bought Sentry and Mags covers in good faith only to watch these chars become virtual toilet seats in my current roster -- they remain nearly completely unused. Were the nerfs good for the game? Yes. Did some players get **** out of a hundred or more hard earned dollars from the nerfs without any meaningful compensation/refund? Yes.

A Thor/XF nerf without fair compensation will cause a big loss of credibility for the game. It will rightfully be viewed as a cash grab: Release a powerful char to sell covers short term, nerf later, and repeat the process.

Thank you for pushing for fair, responsible compensation along with responsible character balancing.

I agree with you on this. I also think it wouldn't be as big of a deal if the covers weren't so expensive. Getting **** out of 30-50 dollars doesn't feel good, but it feels a lot better than getting **** out of 100+ dollars.

Unknown

atomzed wrote:

camichan wrote:

Again, please call for fair refund/compensation options in parallel with calls to nerf Thoress and/or X-force.

Thank you for pushing for fair, responsible compensation along with responsible character balancing.

What would be considered fair if there's a rebalance now? It's good to hear your opinion on this matter.

Good question, thank you for asking. In another 4hor/XF nerf thread I suggested I imagine I'd feel I could live with, say, if I got to keep the rebalanced characters and got back half my HP. Someone else (Trisul, I think) in the thread suggested something called the Hearthstone model. Other possibilities would be to lose the char and get refunded all HP and ISO you invested, or on the more extreme end, to lose the char and all the covers and ISO you won with that character and get back the cash you invested (debatably fair, but likely not feasible).

Buying 9 covers for C Mags with 11,250HP for ~$50, spending a couple weeks to invest 172k ISO (I think it is) to max that character, then after the nerf being offered 86,000 ISO, 1500HP, the loss of the character, and all the time you spent maxing them is being asked to take a a huge loss stacked upon a huge loss stacked upon a huge loss: The loss of the character, partial loss of the ISO spent investing in them, and a complete loss of all the time you spent investing in them.

The current refund doesn't adequately compensate for the loss of the character, only partially compensates for the ISO and HP lost, and offers no compensation for time lost.

Players who invest cash in this game do so to support the game. We want the game to be fun, balanced, and great. It's a process, to be sure. But, we don't want to feel burned out of hundreds of dollars in that process regretting every purchase made.

Arondite

camichan wrote:

Again, please call for fair refund/compensation options in parallel with calls to nerf Thoress and/or X-force.

The refund and compensation options need to be FAIR, and they currently are NOT. Many players rightfully get nervous hearing this nerf talk after they paid hard earned money for covers, and have been burned again and again by the previous nerfs. I bought Sentry and Mags covers in good faith only to watch these chars become virtual toilet seats in my current roster -- they remain nearly completely unused. Were the nerfs good for the game? Yes. Did some players get **** out of a hundred or more hard earned dollars from the nerfs without any meaningful compensation/refund? Yes.

A Thor/XF nerf without fair compensation will cause a big loss of credibility for the game. It will rightfully be viewed as a cash grab: Release a powerful char to sell covers short term, nerf later, and repeat the process.

Thank you for pushing for fair, responsible compensation along with responsible character balancing.

I agree that this is a fair request, but also needs to be meted appropriately.

Should you get the full, 100% HP value of all 13 covers? Nah. At minimum, 3 Must've been earned before purchasing could've even been possible, and it's hard to weigh how much value actually using her would've generated in additional covers acquired during her use.

I'd probably say you should get ~60-66% of the HP cost of 10 Covers IF you choose to refund her (which, with NP's proposed changes, you'd have to be a lunatic to want to do). This would require that you won ~3 covers for a 4 star character while you were using 4Hor.

This conservative number would result in 15,000 HP. That's a ton of HP to just get dropped back on your lap.

Unknown

On offense the game is over when the other side loses their X Force. The typical 'guaranteed win' combo for a Thor/X Force team probably looks like X Force on the featured, Power Surge on the guy who isn't X Force, Smite on X Force. You're using 2X3 match and a 4 match move and when X Force is involved that is also always enough to kill X Force as well which also ends the game. With just X Force alone you can do something like X Force -> Surgical Strike (4 match black) + a 3 match move of your choice. Maybe there's some speed consideration but that'd only matter if the last person remaining isn't Thor because Thor literally can't do anything to win a fight by herself.

Psychology should not be considered as part of the balance. If you can convince everyone that attacking Bagman causes you to automatically lose and easily win every PvP event this way with your own Bagman, it doesn't mean Bagman is somehow overpowered. I wouldn't mind if the game forces blind matches that you can't back out of and then people might actually see that Thor isn't really that hard to beat, but it's still not her fault that people are unreasonably scared of a character who is of no threat on defense and not even all that good on offense. The only reason she works is that X Force can usually knock out a low level featured by himself with one move and allow you to save up for a Smite on the second guy. If there was no X Force, the next strongest 3 match move I can think of would be a Fireball which is not quite 4000 damage (versus X Force that's usually close to 5K before counting the value of the AP collected), which is not quite enough to knock out most featured heroes, and this is also not even considering you give up way more total offense/defense with this substitution to begin with, and yet if you can't get rid of the first guy you'd never get a chance to do your combo. You can't use Smite on the first guy because then you won't have your combo for the second guy.

Unknown

Arondite: I agree that this is a fair request, but also needs to be meted appropriately.

Should you get the full, 100% HP value of all 13 covers? Nah. At minimum, 3 Must've been earned before purchasing could've even been possible, and it's hard to weigh how much value actually using her would've generated in additional covers acquired during her use.

I'd probably say you should get ~60-66% of the HP cost of 10 Covers IF you choose to refund her (which, with NP's proposed changes, you'd have to be a lunatic to want to do). This would require that you won ~3 covers for a 4 star character while you were using 4Hor.

This conservative number would result in 15,000 HP. That's a ton of HP to just get dropped back on your lap.

So as an example in my case: For 4hor and XF combined, I spent I believe 25,000HP (bought with cash) for 10 covers. Four XF black, one green, four 4hor blue, and 1 red. If there were rebalanced, I got to keep the chars, and I got back 12,500 HP, I'd feel that's fair. If the re-balance is decently done, I might even feel I made out on the deal -- and that wouldn't be a bad thing necessarily. A good compensation/refund scheme would leave most players feeling either it's a square deal, or even making off on the deal a little bit. Customers support the game because they feel they get some value more than their paying for. With Sentry and Mags, I would totally give up the chars, ISO and HP I earned with those chars (i.e. very little) for my HP/ISO back, or even cash back.

In your suggestion, I'd get 50-66% of my HP back and lose the chars. I don't feel that's fair. A problem here, is I lose the (in my case 5) covers that I earned fair and square before my purchase in addition to the ones I paid for. If they can return my XF and 4hor to the cover levels that I earned before I bought the rest of the covers, I'd accept that deal, but only if I get back 100% of my HP. I would feel burned only getting back 60% of the HP (because I lost a ton of ISO and time!).

With the recent change to reward tiering in PVP, if that had existed prior to my covers purchase, I may not have bought the 4hor covers. I probably would have bought the Xforce covers and gone for 1k prog 4hor covers over time, so in a way I can look back and regret the 4hor cover purchases. But, I'm willing to put that aside since the reward tiering change seemed reasonable and its obviously not short term cash grab -- seemingly the opposite. (though the argument for shield cool-down is still questionable in my mind...).

lokiagentofhotness

Phantron wrote:

On offense the game is over when the other side loses their X Force. The typical 'guaranteed win' combo for a Thor/X Force team probably looks like X Force on the featured, Power Surge on the guy who isn't X Force, Smite on X Force. You're using 2X3 match and a 4 match move and when X Force is involved that is also always enough to kill X Force as well which also ends the game. With just X Force alone you can do something like X Force -> Surgical Strike (4 match black) + a 3 match move of your choice. Maybe there's some speed consideration but that'd only matter if the last person remaining isn't Thor because Thor literally can't do anything to win a fight by herself.

Psychology should not be considered as part of the balance. If you can convince everyone that attacking Bagman causes you to automatically lose and easily win every PvP event this way with your own Bagman, it doesn't mean Bagman is somehow overpowered. I wouldn't mind if the game forces blind matches that you can't back out of and then people might actually see that Thor isn't really that hard to beat, but it's still not her fault that people are unreasonably scared of a character who is of no threat on defense and not even all that good on offense. The only reason she works is that X Force can usually knock out a low level featured by himself with one move and allow you to save up for a Smite on the second guy. If there was no X Force, the next strongest 3 match move I can think of would be a Fireball which is not quite 4000 damage (versus X Force that's usually close to 5K before counting the value of the AP collected), which is not quite enough to knock out most featured heroes, and this is also not even considering you give up way more total offense/defense with this substitution to begin with, and yet if you can't get rid of the first guy you'd never get a chance to do your combo. You can't use Smite on the first guy because then you won't have your combo for the second guy.

I regularly play TGT/Loki/featured though, so that's not even correct. Neither character is particularly OP for their weight class. They're both good offensive characters that go well with each other because of color combos and also go well with support characters like XF/Hood or TGT/Loki. And I ALWAYS kill TGT first when I fight TGT/XF.

Oh and if the enemy team gets a good cascade you can lose the game or limp to the finish after 5min of play. That's not quite the same as destroying an opposing team in 5 moves.

tanis3303

I only recently got Thoress to a useful level, but I've been using a 5/5/3 270 xforce since right around the anniversary week. My $.02 is this: Xforce is much, much better. Thor is a powerhouse, no question. But for her to be her best, you need a lot of stuff to go exactly right. I've had power surge backfire on me HARD before, those charged tiles are double edged swords. Getting 9 blue AND 10 red is a far different requirement that getting 8 green OR 11 black. The and/or comparison cannot be overlooked here. Power surge/smite have to be used in unison to be truly effective, and that requires everything to go perfectly. Xforce doesn't share this problem. With xforce and a +2 green/black boost, not too much has to go right for an easy win. Match a couple green, someone's probably dead. God forbid you hit 11 black, because the fight is over.

That said, neither of these characters should be nerfed in my opinion. As I said, I JUST got Thoress, but I've been living in the Thorverine universe for some time now. Is that combo everywhere in pvp? Sure it is, and those players either earned or paid for the right to be at the top tiers with the top characters. You also aren't required to fight against it. That skip button exists, and after learning my lesson by wiping to Thorverine several times, I just stopped fighting it. Heck, even with my own Thorverine team, I still skip around until I find other teams to fight. I agree that the transition to this tier of play should be softened for players, covering/leveling 4* characters is a huge uphill battle. But the people that have them deserve to get to play them, they earned it. This is also only considering the PvP environment. Do you have any idea what enemy scaling looks like for veterans with huge rosters? My Hood/Muscle/Don node in the first Rocket & Groot sub STARTED at lvl 235. Take away my Xforce's ability to nuke Hoods yellow mana or Thor's ability to stunlock the Muscle who's tommy gun does 12k+ aoe damage and I'm scaled out of that battle from the word go. Even with max 4* characters that are considered overpowered, I wiped on this node as offen as I won it. Thorverine players may have an advantage in pvp, but it is offset by our redonkulous scaling in pve.

Tl;dr - Yes these 2 characters are very strong. It's the end game, 4* players have fought their battles and earned the right to them. Just Skip them in pvp until you get your very own OP team, it'll happen with time, patience and perseverance

Dauthi

tanis3303 wrote:

I only recently got Thoress to a useful level, but I've been using a 5/5/3 270 xforce since right around the anniversary week. My $.02 is this: Xforce is much, much better. Thor is a powerhouse, no question. But for her to be her best, you need a lot of stuff to go exactly right. I've had power surge backfire on me HARD before, those charged tiles are double edged swords. Getting 9 blue AND 10 red is a far different requirement that getting 8 green OR 11 black. The and/or comparison cannot be overlooked here. Power surge/smite have to be used in unison to be truly effective, and that requires everything to go perfectly. Xforce doesn't share this problem. With xforce and a +2 green/black boost, not too much has to go right for an easy win. Match a couple green, someone's probably dead. God forbid you hit 11 black, because the fight is over.

That said, neither of these characters should be nerfed in my opinion. As I said, I JUST got Thoress, but I've been living in the Thorverine universe for some time now. Is that combo everywhere in pvp? Sure it is, and those players either earned or paid for the right to be at the top tiers with the top characters. You also aren't required to fight against it. That skip button exists, and after learning my lesson by wiping to Thorverine several times, I just stopped fighting it. Heck, even with my own Thorverine team, I still skip around until I find other teams to fight. I agree that the transition to this tier of play should be softened for players, covering/leveling 4* characters is a huge uphill battle. But the people that have them deserve to get to play them, they earned it. This is also only considering the PvP environment. Do you have any idea what enemy scaling looks like for veterans with huge rosters? My Hood/Muscle/Don node in the first Rocket & Groot sub STARTED at lvl 235. Take away my Xforce's ability to nuke Hoods yellow mana or Thor's ability to stunlock the Muscle who's tommy gun does 12k+ aoe damage and I'm scaled out of that battle from the word go. Even with max 4* characters that are considered overpowered, I wiped on this node as offen as I won it. Thorverine players may have an advantage in pvp, but it is offset by our redonkulous scaling in pve.

Tl;dr - Yes these 2 characters are very strong. It's the end game, 4* players have fought their battles and earned the right to them. Just Skip them in pvp until you get your very own OP team, it'll happen with time, patience and perseverance

I agree with you 100%, except I do believe that X-Force should be nerfed, and that is coming from somone's only 4* being X-Force. His black is just too much for 11:

* It removes an entire color off the board and does great damage for each one destroyed. (owww)
* It gives you all of the AP that got destroyed (this is absolutely crazy).
* It removes 10 of the opposing team's best color from them. (this is insult to injury)
*It then proceeds to cascade, which is highly likely to chain thanks to there being an entire color removed from the board, giving you more AP and more damage! (the fun never ends)

Just counting the amount of things this ability does is mind boggling, let alone all of them being amazing.

I might accept this ability if his green wasn't also very good, and his yellow wasn't nice (characters with stamina are always valuable). He's like hood, if hood had 2 good abilities with his blue and decent HP.

Unknown

Both xforce and thour need nerfs, but for different reasons. Xforce needs a NERF because he is so much faster than everyone else in the game. Thour needs a NERF because her massive health allows her to have the time to collect the ap to use her op powers. I do feel like 4* should be better than 3*, but i think they should be closer to nick fury power (but not too close) than god-like power

Unknown

Mattfal wrote:

Both xforce and thour need nerfs, but for different reasons. Xforce needs a NERF because he is so much faster than everyone else in the game. Thour needs a NERF because her massive health allows her to have the time to collect the ap to use her op powers. I do feel like 4* should be better than 3*, but i think they should be closer to nick fury power (but not too close) than god-like power

How many Nick Fury covers did you buy?

I bought zero.

(There's a reason why.)

Unknown

I think this is so funny.

1. My solution is different. I'd just cap the number of charged tiles that cause extra damage, similar to blade ' s kyec. This would solve excess damage problem. Maybe make where caps out at 8000 damage (or some appropriate amount) for smite at level 270 and 5 covers.

2. I'm not worried about the stun, if not done by 4or, you can bring fury, c storm , etc. To still do the same thing.

3. Any character that has a mechanic that can one shot dino, 4or, 395 jugs, etc. Needs a slight tweak.

4. Warned you are. 4or is not the same as sentry bombing with low health total hood or laken. Your scaling will go through the roof if 4or every node. Despite rumors to contrary, character level is not the necessary part of the scaling equation.

5. I would also make ps 10 ap and smite 9 because ps is the better of the two abilities imo. Smite not bad without ps.

P.s. xforce does not need a nerf. If anything can just remove ap gain from black, but that's in a worse case scenario. He is good, but he's 4* good. If he was 3*, then he'd be op.

Unknown

camichan wrote:

Mattfal wrote:

Both xforce and thour need nerfs, but for different reasons. Xforce needs a NERF because he is so much faster than everyone else in the game. Thour needs a NERF because her massive health allows her to have the time to collect the ap to use her op powers. I do feel like 4* should be better than 3*, but i think they should be closer to nick fury power (but not too close) than god-like power

How many Nick Fury covers did you buy?

I bought zero.

(There's a reason why.)

0 as well. I was using fury as an example of a balanced character. I still want xforce and tgt to be at the top, just not so far away from high tier 3*