**** Thor (Goddess of Thunder) **** [PRE 2015-03]

NorthernPolarity

Been thinking about the nerf, and I think starting with Surge level 5 reduced to 3 turn stun and 9 charge tiles would be a great start. The devs should try to do more incremental balance changes as opposed to these wild overnerfs we've been seeing on OP characters.

Unknown

She needs 29 AP to obliterate 2 characters I think? She is not super unbalanced on the face of it, she is a top 4* tank character. Kinda like if 3* thor were given 16k HP and no other changes. With 12 yellow and about 16 green or so he can do something like 3700 damage to one target, then 4400 to one target and 2200 to 2 other targets twice in a row. That's basically a 1v3 character right there. Where dual color chain characters break down is boosts. If you can bring 12 of your 29 AP to the game, that's only 17 you need to pretty much devastate the other side. It's why sentry was broken, it's why 3* Thor is pretty good still, and it's why TGT is broken-ish. I say -ish because I don't feel she is that broken, she's just top of the cards at the 4* range. Someone has to be.

Arondite

Lerysh wrote:

She needs 29 AP to obliterate 2 characters I think? She is not super unbalanced on the face of it, she is a top 4* tank character. Kinda like if 3* thor were given 16k HP and no other changes. With 12 yellow and about 16 green or so he can do something like 3700 damage to one target, then 4400 to one target and 2200 to 2 other targets twice in a row. That's basically a 1v3 character right there. Where dual color chain characters break down is boosts. If you can bring 12 of your 29 AP to the game, that's only 17 you need to pretty much devastate the other side. It's why sentry was broken, it's why 3* Thor is pretty good still, and it's why TGT is broken-ish. I say -ish because I don't feel she is that broken, she's just top of the cards at the 4* range. Someone has to be.

She needs 19 AP, not 29, and after the initial 19 investment you are guaranteed to down 2 characters thanks to the charge tiles generated. In a desperate situation (lol when is 4Hor desperate), you can even fire off the stun (9) without the smite in the effort of generating enough red ap off the newly charged tiles.

sinnerjfl

Her AP costs shouldnt really be a big factor since she creates charged tiles. She really only needs 9 blue AP
and she can get going.

I would nerf her health, 16,000 HP is just too much and eventually she'll get to use a power. Blue creates too many charged tiles
as well. I don't really understand why she gets one of the best stuns in the game and creates that many charged tiles. One
aspect of her blue needs to be tweaked, shorter stun or less charged tiles.

Unknown

Arondite wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

She needs 29 AP to obliterate 2 characters I think? She is not super unbalanced on the face of it, she is a top 4* tank character. Kinda like if 3* thor were given 16k HP and no other changes. With 12 yellow and about 16 green or so he can do something like 3700 damage to one target, then 4400 to one target and 2200 to 2 other targets twice in a row. That's basically a 1v3 character right there. Where dual color chain characters break down is boosts. If you can bring 12 of your 29 AP to the game, that's only 17 you need to pretty much devastate the other side. It's why sentry was broken, it's why 3* Thor is pretty good still, and it's why TGT is broken-ish. I say -ish because I don't feel she is that broken, she's just top of the cards at the 4* range. Someone has to be.

She needs 19 AP, not 29, and after the initial 19 investment you are guaranteed to down 2 characters thanks to the charge tiles generated. In a desperate situation (lol when is 4Hor desperate), you can even fire off the stun (9) without the smite in the effort of generating enough red ap off the newly charged tiles.

That is not the same as needing 19 AP.

Arondite

If I were testing nerfs for her, here's what I would test.

Red - consumes charged status of tiles for the bonus damage, no ap generated
Yellow - creates more charged tiles and creates the same number of charged tiles whether the enemy has special tiles or not. Slightly reduced damage, damage now scales slightly with charged tiles on board
Blue - creates fewer charged tiles (shifted these from blue to yellow), stuns target for 2 turns, at max level stuns each other enemy for 1 turn

Is it a knee jerk? I think she'd still be top tier and pretty strong without overpowering the whole game. The most important thing is she'd no longer be able to easily 1v2 any members of the cast.

NorthernPolarity

Lerysh wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

She needs 29 AP to obliterate 2 characters I think? She is not super unbalanced on the face of it, she is a top 4* tank character. Kinda like if 3* thor were given 16k HP and no other changes. With 12 yellow and about 16 green or so he can do something like 3700 damage to one target, then 4400 to one target and 2200 to 2 other targets twice in a row. That's basically a 1v3 character right there. Where dual color chain characters break down is boosts. If you can bring 12 of your 29 AP to the game, that's only 17 you need to pretty much devastate the other side. It's why sentry was broken, it's why 3* Thor is pretty good still, and it's why TGT is broken-ish. I say -ish because I don't feel she is that broken, she's just top of the cards at the 4* range. Someone has to be.

She needs 19 AP, not 29, and after the initial 19 investment you are guaranteed to down 2 characters thanks to the charge tiles generated. In a desperate situation (lol when is 4Hor desperate), you can even fire off the stun (9) without the smite in the effort of generating enough red ap off the newly charged tiles.

That is not the same as needing 19 AP.

4or is essentially: 19AP - If one team member is dead, kill the other 2 guys on their team. Her weakness is that she needs the other two characters to kill the first guy. If you do that, you're rewarded with a 10AP 12k damage nuke, and a 9 AP blue stun on the last guy. Now the stun on the last guy wouldn't even be that bad, except that her abilities accelerate her into more AP, effectively stunlocking / nuking down the last guy at arbitrary amounts of HP. This is miles better than anyone comparable can do.

Arondite

Lerysh wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

She needs 29 AP to obliterate 2 characters I think? She is not super unbalanced on the face of it, she is a top 4* tank character. Kinda like if 3* thor were given 16k HP and no other changes. With 12 yellow and about 16 green or so he can do something like 3700 damage to one target, then 4400 to one target and 2200 to 2 other targets twice in a row. That's basically a 1v3 character right there. Where dual color chain characters break down is boosts. If you can bring 12 of your 29 AP to the game, that's only 17 you need to pretty much devastate the other side. It's why sentry was broken, it's why 3* Thor is pretty good still, and it's why TGT is broken-ish. I say -ish because I don't feel she is that broken, she's just top of the cards at the 4* range. Someone has to be.

She needs 19 AP, not 29, and after the initial 19 investment you are guaranteed to down 2 characters thanks to the charge tiles generated. In a desperate situation (lol when is 4Hor desperate), you can even fire off the stun (9) without the smite in the effort of generating enough red ap off the newly charged tiles.

That is not the same as needing 19 AP.

It is precisely the same. For 19 AP, she stuns one character for 4 turns and downs another. That's literally the end of the fight if your first hero was already downed. You ever come back from having only 1 guy on your team who doesn't get to take his next 4 turns?

No, I didn't thinks o.

NorthernPolarity

Arondite wrote:

If I were testing nerfs for her, here's what I would test.

Red - consumes charged status of tiles for the bonus damage, no ap generated
Yellow - creates more charged tiles and creates the same number of charged tiles whether the enemy has special tiles or not. Slightly reduced damage, damage now scales slightly with charged tiles on board
Blue - creates fewer charged tiles (shifted these from blue to yellow), stuns target for 2 turns, at max level stuns each other enemy for 1 turn

Is it a knee jerk? I think she'd still be top tier and pretty strong without overpowering the whole game. The most important thing is she'd no longer be able to easily 1v2 any members of the cast.

The nerf that would be the fairest and cause the least amount of concern is to keep all of the mechanics as is, but reduce the numbers. A huge part of why she is so good is the perpetual stunlock on the last guy and being able to one shot the second to last guy. A nerf like a reduction for blue to a 3 turn stun and 8 charge tiles, along with a damage reduction on red to 9000 damage right after a surge would attack these problems directly (less charge tiles means more inconsistent AP generation, reduction on stun makes stunlock more unreliable, less damage means you can't 1 shot an X-Force in PvP) without shaking the boat. You'd look like an idiot if you were to complain about these nerfs, whereas complaining about nerfs that drastically change the character is much less stupid.

Arondite

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Arondite wrote:

If I were testing nerfs for her, here's what I would test.

Red - consumes charged status of tiles for the bonus damage, no ap generated
Yellow - creates more charged tiles and creates the same number of charged tiles whether the enemy has special tiles or not. Slightly reduced damage, damage now scales slightly with charged tiles on board
Blue - creates fewer charged tiles (shifted these from blue to yellow), stuns target for 2 turns, at max level stuns each other enemy for 1 turn

Is it a knee jerk? I think she'd still be top tier and pretty strong without overpowering the whole game. The most important thing is she'd no longer be able to easily 1v2 any members of the cast.

The nerf that would be the fairest and cause the least amount of concern is to keep all of the mechanics as is, but reduce the numbers. A huge part of why she is so good is the perpetual stunlock on the last guy and being able to one shot the second to last guy. A nerf like a reduction for blue to a 3 turn stun and 8 charge tiles, along with a damage reduction on red to 9000 damage right after a surge would attack these problems directly (less charge tiles means more inconsistent AP generation, reduction on stun makes stunlock more unreliable, less damage means you can't 1 shot an X-Force in PvP) without shaking the boat. You'd look like an idiot if you were to complain about these nerfs, whereas complaining about nerfs that drastically change the character is much less stupid.

I could get behind that. You couldn't really be mad about it - 9K is a tremendous blast and a 3 turn stun is still crazy strong.

NorthernPolarity

Arondite wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Arondite wrote:

If I were testing nerfs for her, here's what I would test.

Red - consumes charged status of tiles for the bonus damage, no ap generated
Yellow - creates more charged tiles and creates the same number of charged tiles whether the enemy has special tiles or not. Slightly reduced damage, damage now scales slightly with charged tiles on board
Blue - creates fewer charged tiles (shifted these from blue to yellow), stuns target for 2 turns, at max level stuns each other enemy for 1 turn

Is it a knee jerk? I think she'd still be top tier and pretty strong without overpowering the whole game. The most important thing is she'd no longer be able to easily 1v2 any members of the cast.

The nerf that would be the fairest and cause the least amount of concern is to keep all of the mechanics as is, but reduce the numbers. A huge part of why she is so good is the perpetual stunlock on the last guy and being able to one shot the second to last guy. A nerf like a reduction for blue to a 3 turn stun and 8 charge tiles, along with a damage reduction on red to 9000 damage right after a surge would attack these problems directly (less charge tiles means more inconsistent AP generation, reduction on stun makes stunlock more unreliable, less damage means you can't 1 shot an X-Force in PvP) without shaking the boat. You'd look like an idiot if you were to complain about these nerfs, whereas complaining about nerfs that drastically change the character is much less stupid.

I could get behind that. You couldn't really be mad about it - 9K is a tremendous blast and a 3 turn stun is still crazy strong.

Yup, not to mention that it takes 0 extra development effort. I personally like it because I can chastise forumites who complain about 4or being nerfed: as if that version of 4or wouldn't be automatically run on every PvP team still: it's hard to complain about that compared to something like drastically changing cmags. At least this gives a more reasonable baseline upon which to balance the other 4*s.

simonsez

NorthernPolarity wrote:

as if that version of 4or wouldn't be automatically run on every PvP team still

Why does every nerf discussion always exclude PvE? I couldn't care less if she'd still be queen of PvP. The problem is when you have 90k health on the opposite side of a PvE node you have to kill off, you need her the way she is now.

I already said this in one of the other 17 "nerf" threads recently... stop offering to unilaterally disarm us. Let me see PvE stop with the b.s. nodes that would otherwise hammer the **** out of us, and then we can talk about nerfs.

Unknown

Are we talking about PvP or PvE here? Because in PvE most of the time the game is decided by the time the first person is downed against very high level opponents, and you can't just try to down Yelena or Bullseye first because the other two guys might have 20K a piece which is well out of the range of a Smite combo and they obviously can easily dismantle any combo you have if the game goes on long enough for them to use their good moves.

In PvP there's no way to make Thor manageable without making her way underpowered because the trend of the game is toward ever decreasing power of the featured 3*. As the pool of 4* expands, it is increasingly impossible for anyone to keep their featured character at even a halfway respectable level because the rate of new characters, especially expensive 4* character, far exceed your iso 8 income, and when people are running at best a base level 90 3* even for very strong players who gets downed in one move of course it's trivial to turn it into a 2on2 situation. That said I'm not really sure what's the problem because in PvP the game is over when the other side loses their X Force unless you did something incredibly stupid, and if you have some combination of 8g + 10r + 9blue in different color that's also always enough to down X Force.

Arondite

simonsez wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

as if that version of 4or wouldn't be automatically run on every PvP team still

Why does every nerf discussion always exclude PvE? I couldn't care less if she'd still be queen of PvP. The problem is when you have 90k health on the opposite side of a PvE node you have to kill off, you need her the way she is now.

I already said this in one of the other 17 "nerf" threads recently... stop offering to unilaterally disarm us. Let me see PvE stop with the b.s. nodes that would otherwise hammer the **** out of us, and then we can talk about nerfs.

You could always keep her at a low level so that the nodes dont' scale crazily as you complete them.

I guess PvE and PvP are two separate entities, and as you progress in one you're not meant to dominate the other

Unknown

Arondite wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

She needs 29 AP to obliterate 2 characters I think? She is not super unbalanced on the face of it, she is a top 4* tank character. Kinda like if 3* thor were given 16k HP and no other changes. With 12 yellow and about 16 green or so he can do something like 3700 damage to one target, then 4400 to one target and 2200 to 2 other targets twice in a row. That's basically a 1v3 character right there. Where dual color chain characters break down is boosts. If you can bring 12 of your 29 AP to the game, that's only 17 you need to pretty much devastate the other side. It's why sentry was broken, it's why 3* Thor is pretty good still, and it's why TGT is broken-ish. I say -ish because I don't feel she is that broken, she's just top of the cards at the 4* range. Someone has to be.

She needs 19 AP, not 29, and after the initial 19 investment you are guaranteed to down 2 characters thanks to the charge tiles generated. In a desperate situation (lol when is 4Hor desperate), you can even fire off the stun (9) without the smite in the effort of generating enough red ap off the newly charged tiles.

That is not the same as needing 19 AP.

It is precisely the same. For 19 AP, she stuns one character for 4 turns and downs another. That's literally the end of the fight if your first hero was already downed. You ever come back from having only 1 guy on your team who doesn't get to take his next 4 turns?

No, I didn't thinks o.

And THAT is not the same as " safely obliterate any 2 characters in the game without repercussion."

Arondite

Lerysh wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

Arondite wrote:

She needs 19 AP, not 29, and after the initial 19 investment you are guaranteed to down 2 characters thanks to the charge tiles generated. In a desperate situation (lol when is 4Hor desperate), you can even fire off the stun (9) without the smite in the effort of generating enough red ap off the newly charged tiles.

That is not the same as needing 19 AP.

It is precisely the same. For 19 AP, she stuns one character for 4 turns and downs another. That's literally the end of the fight if your first hero was already downed. You ever come back from having only 1 guy on your team who doesn't get to take his next 4 turns?

No, I didn't thinks o.

And THAT is not the same as " safely obliterate any 2 characters in the game without repercussion."

Well, except for the fact that it is. For 19 AP, you safely remove the last 2 characters from the game. It's literally that simple.

Unknown

Damn, you guys are genius!

Unknown

So sick of people calling for nerfs...That's why we can't have nice things.... Why not call for others to get buffed instead?

NorthernPolarity

WilliamK99 wrote:

So sick of people calling for nerfs...That's why we can't have nice things.... Why not call for others to get buffed instead?

Because problems don't go away when you buff characters to Ragnarok tier where they can end the game in a turn.

Arondite

WilliamK99 wrote:

So sick of people calling for nerfs...That's why we can't have nice things.... Why not call for others to get buffed instead?

Because the game doesn't need a bunch of 4Hor-tier characters running around. The gap between 3* would go from being "really hard" to "positively insurmountable", and if there's multiple behemoths that can 1v2 with no input from the 2 being relevant, it won't take long for us to turn this game into a literal solitaire equivalent from perfect pairings that can't be touched.

I'd rather have a bunch of really strong characters than a bunch of all-doing offensive tanks with loads of crowd control and infinite health.