True Healing Discussion (Live 6/25)

Willis

So what am I supposed to do against the horde of 141s I'm facing that will most likely take off more than half my health in the fight? All I have is a single maxed 141 Punisher. Without OBW heals I'll be burning 2-3 health packs a fight. What do I do after that? Pray that my "roster diversity" of 2* guys can stand up to Patch/CMags teams or watch them struggle to put a dent into LDaken while getting nuked by LThor or Sentry?

Healing needed to be changed but this by far the worst possible choice. On a side note I really just love how enemies can spam their heals with a care about temp healing since it might as well just be true healing for them. What we had before may have had problems but this is just straight up broken.

Mawtful

So wait, they reduced the time it takes characters to heal - and further reduced the time for Spider-Man and Hulk (both have minor regenerative boosts from their powers, so this makes sense).
I hadn't seen that mentioned anywhere previously, but it seems like it might have gone a little ways towards easing the pain if they'd made that clear.

I honestly think I'm ok with the changes now.

OnesOwnGrief

Ben Grimm wrote:

I'm finding that I"m now paranoid about taking damage. Got up to 210 in LRs off seed teams - with Battle Angel still left - and just stopped. Decided the token(s?) just wasn't going to be worth it. There's going to be a new normal eventually, but expect ultra-cautious play to be the norm for a while. Or people wiping out their rosters and fuming.

Something caught my attention during Webslinger and I thought it was a joke team. Decided to fight it and was completely hampered outside of power damage. It was a Spidey/Bullseye combo. Literally, the first purple match killed all match damage just about and that wasn't even a maxed Spidey. Fighting an enemy that is hitting you for 1s completely mitigates having to use health packs frequently. I'm also of the mind that when CMags get "funbalanced," his defense tile will still be highly sought after. I'm expecting Damage mitigation to be the new norm for defense teams since a bad cascade can cause you to retreat or use a health pack.

yogi_

Had a few games.

This temporary heal is poor design.

Heal is heal - there should not be different types of heal. If it's not a heal, change the skill description to make it something more... less ridiculous.

Yes, just because it solves your problem, doesn't mean there wasn't a better way of going about it.

So, you've got the current system which is clear that you have no intention of going back on. Ok, fine. But rejig Spider and OBW to have an ability that is not "temporary heal". Shall we be seeing temporary heal in more future characters?

The other flaw is the enemy temporary heal is essentially a permanent heal, as they come back to full health at the end of the game and no permanent effect is felt. Very frustrating.

Kinda insulting and at the end of the day, once again, rather than geting your outcomes through changing what should change (the character, I guess), you add another broader game dynamic, which adds little to the game (by taking away an obvious but arguably overused thing but replacing it with a poor substitute).

Easy out, but poor longer term design choice.

Mawtful

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

I'm finding that I"m now paranoid about taking damage. Got up to 210 in LRs off seed teams - with Battle Angel still left - and just stopped. Decided the token(s?) just wasn't going to be worth it. There's going to be a new normal eventually, but expect ultra-cautious play to be the norm for a while. Or people wiping out their rosters and fuming.

Something caught my attention during Webslinger and I thought it was a joke team. Decided to fight it and was completely hampered outside of power damage. It was a Spidey/Bullseye combo. Literally, the first purple match killed all match damage just about and that wasn't even a maxed Spidey. Fighting an enemy that is hitting you for 1s completely mitigates having to use health packs frequently. I'm also of the mind that when CMags get "funbalanced," his defense tile will still be highly sought after. I'm expecting Damage mitigation to be the new norm for defense teams since a bad cascade can cause you to retreat or use a health pack.

I used a team in the recent Hotshot tournament that I had encountered during the previous one (from Season 2?).
The team is Human Torch, Spider-Man, Falcon.

It was utterly infuriating to fight against. Much better synergy between Falcon and Spidey than I expected, probably because blue isn't being spammed, and then purple and yellow are just building on each other.
I used this recent tournament to put some ISO into HT, who I now have soft capped at 79. I'll be looking to work on all three over the next little while, as I think it could be a very strong defensive team. I may substitute HT out for Punisher or Hulk until I get some more covers.

tunguska1969

I really can't express myself as well as many others on the board are able to so I'm just going to go with how I feel and try not to
be negative.

I absolutely hate this change. I'm not happy I can't take OBW into prologue to heal my characters. I didn't see this as "wasting my time in the prologue" but a way to heal my characters to continue playing. If I wanted to heal I had to work at it or use my health packs. I had thought this was an ingenious way for the devs to keep us wanting to play.

I think I can see why they made this change for when your actually fighting in PVP but honestly I've never had a problem fighting against OBW.
I usually go after the teams that feature her first. I just found beating teams with her in it easier. Maybe only because she was one of my 1st 2star characters that I maxxed 1st and was confident enough to beat her.

I've spent close (or a little over) $600 in the short while I've been playing. Not because I felt I had to or was forced to but because I wanted to and I was loving the game. I wanted extra spaces to recruit more characters NOW and I bought cover packs because I liked some of the new characters and wanted them NOW.

I stopped purchasing anything in MPQ as soon as they implemented "buy 1, 10 or 40 cover packs" as I noticed the chances of getting a 2+ or higher via standard reward token dropped to just about zero. I use to get one or more gold token a day this way and since they added the option to buy even more packs I've received only 2 gold recruit tokens. I kept playing because I liked the game.

Add to this not even receiving gold/heroic token rewards at all even though the game is showing me I've received that reward. When I go to redeem tokens they were all standard, even though 5 were standard and 2 were gold upon redemption all were standard. I kept playing because I liked it.

This true healing change took the game from something I wanted to spend time playing to ...why bother.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

at least juggs in pvp is bound to 40 unlike in pve right next door...

This early diversity will evaporate soon as people switch to patch/LazyDaken and skips will go the same way.

Daken is already quite overpowered with or without this change, and the only reason you wouldn't be using Daken is likely because you don't have him or you have someone just as broken. It's not like all those level 141 Dakens that popped up immediately after he was released was because all those guys got a secret memo from D3 telling them to stock up on regenerating characters due to impending nerf. If you had HP to spend it was a clear no brainer investement due to how powerful he is in any environment.

Unknown

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Unknown

I'm asked this in the event thread but I'll ask it here too, and hope that IceIX can pass it on to the other devs - With a total of 8 heroes allowed in the current heroic PvE, what do we do when they are all dead, whether due to not enough levels or poor playing or just bad luck? The old option was that we could go heal up in the prologue and keep playing your game. Now the only options are to wait or buy health packs. Didn't you say you wanted people to find an alternative to health packs or something?

mohio

Alternative being go outside? live real life? play a different game? Clearly there's no alternative for MPQ'ing besides paying for health packs, which I can't imagine many people wanting to do. But, this is their intention, cause you some discomfort so you decide to make things easier by paying.

Unknown

this make me want to play the game less no more investing with anymore money for the game with me until healing at least is back in matches. Temp healing is a waste and I would of not purches coins if I knew about this change.

Unknown

mohio wrote:

Alternative being go outside? live real life? play a different game? Clearly there's no alternative for MPQ'ing besides paying for health packs, which I can't imagine many people wanting to do. But, this is their intention, cause you some discomfort so you decide to make things easier by paying.

That's the trite answer, of course. The clever fall-back answer. "Go do real life stuff!" But the thing is, I do. I work a full time job, socialize with family and friends, even work on a nice vegetable patch out in the back yard. I paint, I write, I draw, I read, I watch TV, I do all the normal things that normal people do and then some. Hell, I even have a 6000 piece jigsaw puzzle about 2/3 done. I also like to play games. This one in particular at the moment, and now it's pushing me away like I'm a needy child. Doesn't seem right.

yogi_

Here is part of a solution.

From the daily rewards thread:

* A supply that is listed as "Random" may be one of Standard Pack Token (25%), 50 Hero Points (12.5%), 500 Iso-8 (12.5%), 250 Iso-8 (12.5%), 3x Health Packs (12.5%), 3x All color Damage Boosts (12.5%) or 3x All color AP Boosts (12.5%).

Start by increasing the drop % of health packs, at least double. Reduce (or get rid of) both the boosts, they are annoying given you get them from all sorts of other places already. Maybe add a 12.5% Heroic Token option instead. Say:

* Standard Pack Token (25%), Heroic Pack Token (12.5%), 50 Hero Points (12.5%), 500 Iso-8 (12.5%), 250 Iso-8 (12.5%) or 3x Health Packs (25%).

Have this enacted for a while and see how it goes, particularly the health pack % as this does put significantly more of them into the system.

Bloody Sky

Oh wow. True Healing is already implanted in the game. You guys sure could not wait to roll that out, could you?

[Rant]
If you are going to keep this "True Healing" around, you really, really, really, REALLY need to change the how the AI gets handed everything (along with the steep scaling and MMR). I was fighting the final battle in the Heroic event, which is against Jugg, Ares and Daken, and their very first move they got cascades like crazy, all from tiles dropping from the top of the screen. When their first move was over, they already had; 8 Red, 6 Green, 4 Yellow, 1 Blue, 3 Pink, 0 Black and 12 Environment. So their very next move, Jugg hit me with Headbutt and Ares hit me with Onslaught. BOOM, two moves into the *bleep*ing game and one of my characters is already almost dead. Man, that's a MedPack well spent. NOT.

Also I've noticed that if there is any chance that a 4-of-a-kind can happen, if the right tiles drop from off-screen, 98% of the time the said tile will drop so AI can use that 4 of a kind. But what happens if AI would of matched it? I wouldn't of gotten it. Hell I have seen the AI get a 4 of a kind, only for the whole top row to drop down as ALL the same color. lol I wish I could get easy crit tiles like that.

When AI Jugg uses Unstoppable Crash, he gets crit tiles and 4 of a kind matches. When I use Jugg and use Unstoppable Crash, I get two things... Jack and sh... And Jack left town. Another thing I have noticed is that AI usually gets the colors they need to do powers, where, often times, the board makes it to where you won't get the colors you need, but purposely set it up to where right when you match a useless color for you, it sets up for the AI getting a color it needs.

You let the AI get handed everything, to where they can hit you with 3 or 4 powers before you can even get a single one off, most of the time. I guess it's your way to "balance" it, since AI doesn't usually go for crit tiles, unless the tiles are in a line. But still, it's ****.

I fought only 3 battles in the Heroic event, now I am sitting here either waiting for a MedPack to refill or my team to heal. I only have 3 characters that are high enough in the event to get my points (I only started this game about two months back). So since those 3 are weak, I got nothing to do. I am not going to take a level 45 Torch, with only one power, and a level 48 Black Widow, with only two weak powers, against a level 107 Ares. Sorry, not going to happen. Well, looks like I'm not getting a She-Hulk unless I pay for more medpacks. LOLNOPE!

Well, this is exactly what I was afraid was going to happen. I am sitting here, staring at timers on the screen, before I can play my video game unless I want to shell out money. Man... If only games that didn't have gameplay restrictions existed. Oh wait... there are games like that! Even other free ones, like Path of Exile, Hearthstone, games on Kongregate and even Marvel Heroes. Bye Marvel Puzzle Quest. It was nice knowing you. I guess I'll just go re-play Challenge of the Warlords for the 100th time (WAY better than MPQ anyways) if I need my Puzzle Quest fix.
Have fun staring at timers, everyone. I'm gone. /butthurt or whatever.

"Go do something else or play another game until your heroes heal or until your medpacks come back.". Yes, I realize this is an option, but it shouldn't be one, is what I'm am getting at. I will go play another game, thanks. But it will be another games instead of this one. I won't even bother to come back now, since there is no point. I won't score high enough in events anymore anyways, since I don't have a lot of high level characters. This game is a waste of time now. But then again, I guess the same can be said about all vidya games. Still, I'll "waste my time" in another game from now on.
[/Rant]

Unknown

dearbluey wrote:

I'm asked this in the event thread but I'll ask it here too, and hope that IceIX can pass it on to the other devs - With a total of 8 heroes allowed in the current heroic PvE, what do we do when they are all dead, whether due to not enough levels or poor playing or just bad luck? The old option was that we could go heal up in the prologue and keep playing your game. Now the only options are to wait or buy health packs. Didn't you say you wanted people to find an alternative to health packs or something?

"Insert Coins to Continue, Don't Give Up!" 9.... 8.... 7...

Unknown

I have over 600 hours in game, a broad character pool that is leveled pretty well and I played for a couple of hours with the True Healing change. Between this and the timer on pve points regeneration seems D3 is pushing us away from playing the game as much. In the past I have sometimes jumped to the pve to heal up but not often and it usually took several fights to get healed (it was not a quick and easy thing normally). Either the pve enemy was too low and died to quick or get a lot of lucky cascades and kept my hit points down.

Tonight I played for about over an hour in PVP and rotated through various team configurations to get to just over 300 points in the Grey BW event. I understand that is your intention and I can deal with that part. However, now I pretty much have to sit out the rest of the night until I go to bed (3 hours) and will not be able to play again until tomorrow evening eastern US after work and school work. We all have been in fights against very high damage characters or those crazy chain cascades and extra turns that about wipe us where OBW saved our skins and allowed us to recover enough to fight another round (the majority of the time). We even have to use health packs even after OBW's healing sometimes.

Earlier I was playing the hardest PVE events with the limited roster we are forced with. I only got through 7 or 8 fights before all my characters were too low hit points or dead to continue (this was also rotating through different teams). I was in the top 100 just after noon eastern US but after I came home later I was 15k points down. Figure that out. My characters are leveled up pretty well and only being able to fight 2 rounds with one team before sitting them out is ridiculous! I should have a fair opportunity to keep up with other players that invest the same amount of time in the game and have a similar win-loss record.

I feel the game just shifted to survival grind mode. Just burn up your characters and then go watch TV or play something else. Do you really want us to start playing other games that might draw us away permanently? I have a HUGE Steam backlog that I can go look at. That is how I got here to start with. Further, I really did not have fun playing this game after the update at noon eastern US today. First time since I started playing this game. I am open to change and improvements but I really don't know if the True Healing idea was a good one.

Unknown

Wow, this is a load of utter **** that completely changes the game. Most of the time there was too much content. I could shift gears and play a different pvp or pve for a change of pace. Now...not so much due to having to 'wait' on healing.

Absence won't make the heart grow fonder, D3. You have competition for people's playtime.

mrfssd

So been trying to play this **** after the change. No working.. can't even move up in the ranking no more in the tournament. After every 1/2 match, have to wait at least 1 hour to wait for health pack to heal Thor, since if I just wait for Thor to heal himself, it could take 2 hrs.

This is really freeing up my time...

Unknown

I have some suggestions after the true healing change:
1. As some people have said, call temporary healing something else, say, armor or whatever. Temporary healing sounds confusing.
2. Indicate whether an ability provides true or temporary healing in the skill description, both for present and future characters.
3. Make a separate health bar for "temporary" health. I want to know how much temporary health I have left without memorizing my current health at the time I cast a healing ability such as anti-gravity device. On a related note, this will allow true health + temporary health to go beyond a character's max health.

Abralicious

Seriously, what's the point? I just went into a Simulator match with a full health oBW and ended the match with full health... I go to a new round and she's got 43 minutes until fully repaired? That seems fair!