True Healing Discussion (Live 6/25)

MisanOne

Having worked for a few game publishers myself i'm not surprised at the lack of pub/dev presence on the forum at the moment.

darkmagearcanis

Now with this change implemented. Be warned that health pack costs will double in the next month. Reasoning: people are buying too many health packs and this will slow this down.

You have been warned.

Unknown

SangFroid wrote:

The forums are a great way to voice the community's feelings but can be hidden/marginalized.

If everyone who posted on this thread wrote a negative review in their respective app/game store THIS WOULD GET NOTICED!

Probably everyone did. Probably months ago. IceIX stated very explicitly early this year D3 don't give a flying kitty about reviews as they think people not care about them either.

(He may be right there too, how many times did I read complaining combined with paying through the nose and keep doing it?)

Unknown

I just checked steam reviews for the game and it's funny how many negative (Not recommended) appeared today. The players with only a brief experience from the game still post positive reviews, but it's the players with 300+ hours in the game that make the negative. I always found far more informative the reviews from old players then reviews in sites since they usually base their opinion on a 5-6 hour gaming experience. A game like MPQ can't be properly reviewed by someone with less than 100 hours because he will still be playing with 1* heroes at the time.

I also made one today (Nor recommended), mostly because I want to get the Pillar of Community badge, but it wasn't overly aggressive. It was basically an explanation of how the game works and I mentioned the shift to a P2W model.

Unknown

killemall576 wrote:

This decision is nothing more than a money grab for you guys and considering I've already spent hundreds of dollars on this game it's a disgrace that you would make this change.

They already have your money, so now just sucks being you.

(can you tell a reason why they should think differently?)

Abralicious

I would have so much more respect for the devs if were honest about what's really happening here-- Moneygrubbing. All this **** about prologue healing not being fun.... pfffft. You know what isn't fun? What isn't enjoyable? Having to beat a team of 141s with my transitioning 2* team. Prologue healing is something that you made available and now you're mad that people are using it.

I have 31 characters in my roster and am trying my best to 'diversify' them but I can't be expected to put my lowly lvl 15 cMags that I can't get covers for against the 141 Laken they think I can take on. Nope.

This SUCKS.
Also Hollowpoint is hell on earth. That is all.

mrfssd

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

mrfssd wrote:

BTW who really cares that your roster heal 2x as fast.. As fast as what? If you have the cover maxed out, it still takes hours before they will heal from dead.. so chance is user will just use a heal pack on them.. so what the heck is the point of them healing a bit faster.. it don't even make any sense.

It goes with the (misguided) idea of diversifying your roster. The strategy is to not wait til guys are ground to zero any more.

Come out of a match with your A team at 60% (which you wouldn't/shouldn't use health packs on), switch to your 100% B team, A-team heals faster than it used to, so you recover some points during that time. Then B comes out, and you switch to the C team while A is still healing, as is B now. Then keep cycling, using health packs only when crippled.

Of course, at the 2* level, you only have a reliable A/B team for PVP (Ares/OBW and then Thorverine w/ or w/o Daken, the C team of CStorm and Mags gets murdered), so your cycle is much shorter than teams at the 3* level that can kill quicker, have more health, and have considerably more options for reliable teams. (not to mention Patch/LDaken who can heal themselves to 100%, something only lvl 69 Daken can do at 2* level)

Which is why the loudest complaints are coming from guys who have 2* rosters (plus the vets that have dumped time effort and money into a game that's chopping out its own legs)

Diversify.. Diversify.. yes that is the idea.. however is not like 3* covers comes so often that I could build up a team in 3* that could replace my 2*..
I have 9 -3 star, 8 - 2* and 5 - 1*
My 3 stars have been stuck on the same level at least 1 months without the possibility to upgrade because the card don't come around.
So what is it that I could do to build up a team? Really just go spend hundreds of dollar just to play this game? A game that the dev will just make changes and mess things up? I don't think so.

Also to get enough space for the roster also got messed up with the last change. so I needed to wait for 600 coins to get 2 slot instead of 300 for one slot.. so while waiting to get the full 600 coins.. I could lost out of covers because I can't get a single slot.

BTW people go to my sign petition in the feedback forum viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10421

_RiO_

There we go, getting the word out.
Suggest other Steam players do the same, if they're not already doing so.

If D3 wants to have a 'discussion' on upcoming features, then we get to have 'reviews'.

GrumpySmurf1002

SnowcaTT wrote:

I've only won 4-5 matchups in Hollowpoint, and three of those were the initial weak nodes. So I've been sitting outside of the top 100, and haven't hit 150 points yet (since I have to wait for hours to try another matchup).

In between, I've skipped nodes to try to find easier matchups. What have I seen? Those A-B-C teams you mentioned (and only one copy of that C team), with the exception that it's a widow event so you can't use OBW. What I see is Thor/Ares/Wolvy matched together over and over, occasionally with a Daken or thrown in. Haven't seen one Hawkeye. Haven't seen one Bullseye. Haven't seen one Bagman. Haven't seen one Cap. Have only seen one Moonstone, one Magneto, and two Storm.

This IS NOT giving diversity in matchups! This is just showing the 2*'s that your only chance is pay-to-win.

Yup, I said that in another post. With OBW there's like 10 useful combos. Without her, this is about what is left, and people are going to make sure that their defense team doesn't have any of the useless guys. Moonstone/Cap and maybe even Hawk I'd expect in some retaliation nodes eventually, as people learn to adjust their strategies. Won't be surprised if Jugg finds his way in there to be annoying defensively. (pretty sure that's how I'll end sessions, Ares/Jugg is already tilting people in the PvE)

I haven't actually tried the new system yet (hooray Steam users!) but the more I read, think and talk through it, the more I think there are survivable strategies for us 2* people, but it requires a lot of team planning (when to use which team, when to switch teams, etc) and roster development (need all the 2*s capped, likely some duplicates, and even Bag for PvE use).

Once I try it, then I'll comeback and kick cans over it I'm sure, but trying to talk myself off the ledge right now.

Unknown

This is a terrible game mechanic and the first time Ive ever registered an account on a forum just to provide negative feedback and say I wont be playing anymore. Ill also be asking for a refund for what I spent during the juggernaut heroic event since this game got crippled while it was still going on and I dont see why I should have to lose money on the (now) false assumption that I'd be able to play long enough to stay competitively ranked.

I started this and got other people involved because this game was recommended to me by word-of-mouth from friends whose gaming judgment and suggestions I trust. It's advertising you can't buy. Now my referrer, myself, and the other two who got into it because I told them about it are on our way out, and will burn the reputation of this game hard to others instead. It's advertising you can't buy back.

Abralicious

-dahl- wrote:

Dear IceX,

Long time listener, first time caller.

I've been reading the comments, eating my popcorn, and wanted to say a few brief things that I'm sure will resonate with others.

Before I had a maxed OBW, I played sporadically. Since then, yes, I've used her as a crutch and have had her in almost every team (both PvP and PvE) because her healing ability allowed me to play for much longer. But that is how I have been able to obtain so many covers and begin my transition from 2* to 3*. If it were not for her, I would still be stuck in the 2* phase. And these days with so many new 3* covers coming out, the time it takes to max out a 3* takes much longer. This, and the inability to continue play for prolonged periods of time, means my daily play will be reduced.

I agree with your statements about wanting players to spread out their rosters, and I see your vision as a sound goal. But the method it will take to get there seems to give an advantage to players who already have an established team of maxed 3* characters. 3* covers are obtained through winning tournaments and helped by belonging to a top alliance that has already reaped the benefits of prolonged play. At least prolonged play through healing gives players who have not yet reached this level a sense of achievement.

Many players have a core team that they play with, but this is mainly due to cover availability. 3* covers don't reach the playability of their maxed-out 2* counterparts until over level 100, and 10 covers are needed to reach that level. I've been playing since almost day 1 and I have ZERO 3* characters with more than 10 covers. My core team is OBW/Ares/Thor and I don't change it up too much because the 3* characters I do have don't help me win faster. If I HAD more 3* covers to build up to be competitive, sure I'd switch it around from time to time to make things interesting. I have a feeling all "true healing" will do is make me less competitive, which will slow down the rate of 3* covers I get and in turn make me not play as often.

Just my 2c

This is way back on page 7 but it is so accurate that I had to quote it!

Unknown

CNash wrote:

A couple of thoughts... and yes, I have read through this entire 35-page thread...

- It's still possible to exit a match with almost max HP. You just have to heal constantly. Every time you have enough blue for AGD, use it right there and then. Don't wait! The more you wait, the more your real HP gets eroded by enemy attacks!

When I played OBW in the past the game started with her taking 1k damage ASAP, maybe 2k even. As she collected 3 colors (2 with Frank) and got exposed. By end of game she healed up but the dip was needed.

With current system similar play results KO in 2 games -- really you need to use health pack right after the game as starting her under 2k means she dies before doing her job.

Guess you could adapt somewhat but fundamentally I don't see an escape route for reams without mags/LD (or other strong blue user).

GrimSkald

I'm going to give this a little time before I make any firm decision to stop playing, but my initial impression is bad - I resisted the call to play OBW for a very long time - I wanted a viable CStorm MNMags team but just wasn't getting those purple covers for Magneto. I'll tell you - it was a much tougher game and a lot less fun. I could play for 1-2 hours then had to stop for a few hours.

Incidentally, I have a very sold 2* team now (I have full covers in all the 2*s in my Roster, and a maxed out CStorm, Ares, MNThor, and AWolvie. MNMags is where I left him at 71.) I *don't* have any 3* worth spending ISO on - the most covers I have in any of them is Hulk with 7. I've leveled up some for the PVEs, but nothing above 50. I was planning on playing this game less (I tried doing some full lightning rounds last week and found it ridiculous in terms of time,) and this will definitely help.

I honestly think they made this change for balance reasons, rather than trying to milk the health packs, but I do think it's a poor decision. There are so many 2* characters that are just not even worth your time, and the 3* transition takes so long. It doesn't even affect OBWs viability *in* combat, it just means you can't keep playing for extended periods of time.

I was seriously addicted to Puzzle Quest 2 on my cell phone. But that game you didn't need to heal at all - you got full health after every battle.

simonsez

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Come out of a match with your A team at 60% (which you wouldn't/shouldn't use health packs on), switch to your 100% B team, A-team heals faster than it used to, so you recover some points during that time. Then B comes out, and you switch to the C team while A is still healing, as is B now. Then keep cycling, using health packs only when crippled.

My favorite part of this whole fiasco is how they roll with it during a PvE where at best, most players only have 4 or 5 playable characters that are worth a damn

Unknown

mrfssd wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

Narkon wrote:

pve just became more frustrating. Lost my team trying to fight 90 level enemies and now have to wait a couple hours for them to heal. That the pve ends 7am makes the experience even worse. So even if I manage to crawl my way to top 20, by the time it ends I will be left in the 50s+. Ans since I can't grind the missions until they are worth 50-100 because I don't have the heroes to do so, this is another ruined pve for me. I guess you can count on the devs to release a patch hours before an event ends.

Yep. Just tried the highest point node in hopes of climbing back into the rankings. Used the PVE buff to get it done more quickly. All going well, have enough for windstorm...and the enemy cascades like mad, three extra turns, and now I'm waiting for hours before Storm will be back to healthy so I can try again. Horray!

Thats the whole point.. I think now instead of people playing like mad on the game.. it will actually give them more time to get off the game and do something else.. . So we should all thanks for D3 for this change which create such a time saving opportunity for all players, so everyone could diversify on what they do in life instead of playing this stupid game.

The problem is that I didn't want to do anything else right now. I wanted to play the game and I can't do it unless I buy healing packs. So much for playing when we want. The arguments IceIX used to justify the change crumbled in that same day, but only now I notice just how broken is the new system. P2W is bad, but P2P is much, much worse and this change takes it to a level I have not witnessed before. I hope the numbers change in the next few days to show the devs just how unreasonable this change was, but I have lost my faith to humanity.

All I have left to say is, if you are willing to spend hundreds of $ in this game to buy tokens or health packs, then I hope you are equally generous with those in the world who do not have food to eat or water to drink. If you are not, then you are just a burden to this world.

GrumpySmurf1002

mrfssd wrote:

Diversify.. Diversify.. yes that is the idea.. however is not like 3* covers comes so often that I could build up a team in 3* that could replace my 2*..
I have 9 -3 star, 8 - 2* and 5 - 1*
My 3 stars have been stuck on the same level at least 1 months without the possibility to upgrade because the card don't come around.
So what is it that I could do to build up a team? Really just go spend hundreds of dollar just to play this game? A game that the dev will just make changes and mess things up? I don't think so.

Also to get enough space for the roster also got messed up with the last change. so I needed to wait for 600 coins to get 2 slot instead of 300 for one slot.. so while waiting to get the full 600 coins.. I could lost out of covers because I can't get a single slot.

BTW people go to my sign petition in the feedback forum viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10421

MIght need money, but for roster slots, not 3* covers. I put money in for roster slots during the recent sale and some time before, so I'm at 34 and counting, with every 2* except Bag fully covered, most fully leveled. That's the solution, need to max out the 2s and collect 3s until you're ready for a one day switch.

PvE you're going to need to use everyone now, Bag included.
PvP is a lot tougher. Likely need multiple of the heavy hitters to be viable, else spend on shielding more.

Ain't easy any more, especially if you wait to earn the HP needed (as most will now). But there is a path, eventually, I think.

Unknown

The trouble is, the game simply isn't worth the increased effort. People won't double up on characters and use **** characters, they'll just quit.

orionpeace

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

mrfssd wrote:

Diversify.. Diversify.. yes that is the idea.. however is not like 3* covers comes so often that I could build up a team in 3* that could replace my 2*..
I have 9 -3 star, 8 - 2* and 5 - 1*
My 3 stars have been stuck on the same level at least 1 months without the possibility to upgrade because the card don't come around.
So what is it that I could do to build up a team? Really just go spend hundreds of dollar just to play this game? A game that the dev will just make changes and mess things up? I don't think so.

Also to get enough space for the roster also got messed up with the last change. so I needed to wait for 600 coins to get 2 slot instead of 300 for one slot.. so while waiting to get the full 600 coins.. I could lost out of covers because I can't get a single slot.

BTW people go to my sign petition in the feedback forum viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10421

MIght need money, but for roster slots, not 3* covers. I put money in for roster slots during the recent sale and some time before, so I'm at 34 and counting, with every 2* except Bag fully covered, most fully leveled. That's the solution, need to max out the 2s and collect 3s until you're ready for a one day switch.

PvE you're going to need to use everyone now, Bag included.
PvP is a lot tougher. Likely need multiple of the heavy hitters to be viable, else spend on shielding more.

Ain't easy any more, especially if you wait to earn the HP needed (as most will now). But there is a path, eventually, I think.

This path you speak of is predicated on already having enough 2* and a foundation of 3* to build on. What if you only have a couple of 2* at max or near max level and a scattering of 3*? In PvP you are bracketed with people who have much better rosters. How do you effectively advance then? You can't win the 3* covers on offer. And most of the tokens result in 2* characters.

So, yeah, I guess if you are willing to commit to a 3 to 4 month grind, you might eventually have a couple of 3* characters. But, now the cycle isn't any better. You only have ONE 3* team. And when that team is hurt, you got nothing and your PvP score is quickly being drained by all of the attacks.

The impact of this change is inversely proportional to the size and quality of your roster right now.

killerkoala

GrimSkald wrote:

I honestly think they made this change for balance reasons, rather than trying to milk the health packs, but I do think it's a poor decision.

you are kidding yourself. this is all about having to buy health packs. not "pay to win" cause there is no guarantee you will win. this is about "pay to compete/play".

GrumpySmurf1002

simonsez wrote:

My favorite part of this whole fiasco is how they roll with it during a PvE where at best, most players only have 4 or 5 playable characters that are worth a damn

Well, there was no healing in this thing anyway. I've gone to bed in top3 each of the last two nights w/o prologue healing, clearing most of the nodes, and that's without a viable Torch or GSBW.

IM40's lvl2 recharge plus MHawk + CStorm does about 2300-2400 AoE each, which knocks out basically every node. Even when IM40 dies out, swapping in IM35 or Thor as the Tank (put him in center, Hawk on the left so Avoid always kicks to the tank), and you can survive for a while.