The ChaHulk meta

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  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    Once you get her blue cd out, she won't be stunned for 3 turn. It costs only 5 blue aps and it's her second colour.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,567 Chairperson of the Boards

    If you can prevent the stun, CD is boostable for sure. I was running Apocalypse/Thano5/Onslaught in pick-3 for several seasons.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think we’ve circled back to the problem of can you climb with a counter without a huge target on your back. I think Thanos/Emma might be considered a viable grill team. I don’t know if something like Thanos/Wanda would be better or worse than Wanda/Hit Monkey. But that brings us to Thanos other problem is he is an old character and so is difficult to acquire.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Yeah it's only needed to fire emma's blue, to timing everything right, and to get a lot of red (strongest emma color) for to boost courth death.
    Easy thing! Why did they release hit monkey? :D
    Oh, and a paper for helping to write all the people who hit you meanwhile.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    As far as putting out grills in pvps is concerned, I've been putting out "grills" out in pvps for the past ~2 years unknowningly. However, it rarely affects my average number of wins to hit 1200: 18-22 wins. The most common number of wins I see in my record is 19. In case no one has calculated, 16 wins is the minimum number of wins needed to hit 1200, and this is assuming every win is worth 75 points. Unless you are in Line, it's impossible to hit 75 point target for every win.

    Based on my experience and mmr, it's more about playing strategically in pvps, rather than being concerned about putting a big target on your back. I get hit about 3-4 times on average during my climb. This is totally normal.

    Here's the logic for boosted Thanos + Emma against Chasm/iHulk:

    Non boosted iHulk+Chasm+Essential is likely to have the following hp: 45k/90k/40k, whereas boosted Thanos+Emma+Essential has : 160k+72k+40k. Sure, I may have put out a "grills" when I beat Chasm/iHulk for 75 points but as long as I can down Chasm/iHulk faster than other players can down my boosted Thanos + Emma, I'm still going to hit 1200 in 18-22 wins.

    I find it's really difficult to convince players not to worry about "putting a target" on their back as long as they could and know how to play strategically in slice 1 pvp. This is akin to the "concern" of those players who got scared by champed 5* mmr. In reddit, there are quite a number of players who have fully covered the typical meta recommended but they were afraid of champing them due to hearing negative experiences in 5* mmr pvps. That's why they have beem softcapping their 5* for months or years.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor

    @Sekilicious said:
    I think we’ve circled back to the problem of can you climb with a counter without a huge target on your back. I think Thanos/Emma might be considered a viable grill team. I don’t know if something like Thanos/Wanda would be better or worse than Wanda/Hit Monkey. But that brings us to Thanos other problem is he is an old character and so is difficult to acquire.

    It's only a problem if you value climbing without being hit. Some of us don't really care about taking hits. Biggest concern is quick matches, no wiping.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    @dianetics said:
    I don’t think Thanos is viable. He does so much team damage you may as well just keep hitting skip and save those health packs.

    I think Monkey Wanda is going to work a lot better and more reliably.

    Run Thanos with your best boosted 5 of the week.
    Unless you have a really gigantic Thanos, he shouldn't do more than 5k damage to your team, your boosted 5 won't care much about taking 25k damage per match.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    You guys don’t have to convince me there are viable counters and some of you can time getting to 1200 pts without shield hopping. It is very difficult with most rosters though and that is my only point in this part of the discussion. The closest I have ever gotten without hopping is 1150 with boosted SC this week. At that point I started bleeding points. If we are talking boosted Thanos that is a different story.

    As an aside, my ‘best’ defensive team is Chasm (4/4/5 lvl453) and iHulk (2/1/1 lvl280). That is a prime candidate to be Thanosed to oblivion, and anyone with Thanos should do it repeatedly. IHulk only has 10k hp after all. It can float at 700+ pts while my meta team for the week SC (3/5/5 lvl458 boosted to 578) and mThor (5/3/5 lvl453) gets hammered at 400 pts (as does Chasm/mThor actually). The only place I have trouble floating with iHulk is lightning rounds.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,019 Chairperson of the Boards

    The matchmaking algorithm is responsible for that. Players who can queue the underleveled chasm/hulk team at 700pts won't have the tools to beat it. It'll be invisible to well-developed 5* rosters until you hit a certain point threshold.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    My MMR is well within the 5* range. If it calculated on top-3 it is at 460, and top 5 at 457. Maybe no one in that range has Thanos at a viable level. Also, I don’t climb with that team. Normally I climb with Chasm/mThor with SC and mThor the last couple of days. SC/Chavez for hops., since even unboosted that is my fastest team though vulnerable to being picked on. If anything I shouldn’t be able to leave iHulk on a defense team.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,019 Chairperson of the Boards

    Your roster controls who you see.

    The team you use controls who sees you.

    If I use a 1* team, I will fight 5* opponents, but only 1* teams will be able to fight me.

    Except for retaliations from people you attack, your underleveled Hulk is only visible to players using 4* or underleveled 5* (until you cross a certain point threshold).

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards

    If you say so. I get hammered by all sorts of 5* MMR jerks if I use BRB/Polaris so I’m skeptical.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,019 Chairperson of the Boards

    I assume Polaris is championed...champion 4* are likely handled quite differently than near-base-level 5*. Lots of new players use their one-cover 5*, so I'd imagine there's a carve-out in matchmaking for them, and this situation seems to confirm that.

    Of course, most near-base-level 5* aren't capable of beating champion 5*, so perhaps the carve-out is something the devs should look into.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    My mmr is similar to Sekilicious. Mine might be slightly higher. I used SC + mThor / AC to climb this week and I hit 1200 in slice 1. For your case, it's likely a timing or playstyle problem.

    What kind of opponents are you hitting, point-wise?

    Timing-wise, there isn't a specific timing to play. Just climb anytime 24 hours before the pvps ends, and don't climb a few hours (~5 hours) before pvps end.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    You can always draw healthpacks from vaults. I don't know why some players can be healthpack conscious. Some of them have over 1000 Sweet or whatever Taco tokens and they can't bear to use it. :D At worst, you use 20 healthpacks, and the game will refill your healthpacks every 36 minutes as long as you have fewer than 10.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor

    Health pack usage is not something I've ever thought about in this game

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    If you're above 9 health Packs at any time, you're doing something wrong.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    To use a big amount of healthpacks, to have to draw resources from other side, to wait for healthpacks refilling, is not something players desire, specially when pvp was more fun and more diverse before chasm.
    For that reason hit monkey has been released, in order to make pvp reasonable again.
    A few minutes ago I fought a chasm Mthor big wheel team with my chasm, SW Crystal team. When his chasm was alone I spend 5 minutes matching with him until I won.
    That's not reasonable, nor fun. Just set his regeneration at 5 and the enemy will struggle to down him.
    A match mirror is crazy and not choosing chasm is a target in the back.
    Hit monkey indeed will help to down that character with his increased 35% damage, so I'm waiting that monkey like if was the new messiah.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    @entrailbucket said:
    I assume Polaris is championed...champion 4* are likely handled quite differently than near-base-level 5*. Lots of new players use their one-cover 5*, so I'd imagine there's a carve-out in matchmaking for them, and this situation seems to confirm that.

    Of course, most near-base-level 5* aren't capable of beating champion 5*, so perhaps the carve-out is something the devs should look into.

    I firmly believe that only being able to leave championed characters on defense would solve a few problems people have with 2 or 3* PvP. If no one in my MMR can see me because I left a 2/1/1 lvl280 iHulk out but my lvl280 Polaris (as she was when I used her) is visible that is a problem.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Well they're reworking MMR anyway.
    Maybe the magical invisible climbs will be over then.
    Or someone will just invent a new spell.

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