The ChaHulk meta

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  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    @Bad said:
    Because is my detailed game experience, perhaps?
    As you can see they released a hard counter because they acknowledge the big damage that the chahulk meta has done to pvp as they know all the data.
    Not like me or you, however I can figure it out based on my experience in play.

    But you didn't figure out anything, you don't even have pre-chasm data points to compare your anecdotal experience to.
    Who knows where the t50 cutoff was before Chasm.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:

    But you didn't figure out anything, you don't even have pre-chasm data points to compare your anecdotal experience to.
    Who knows where the t50 cutoff was before Chasm.

    Oh, I said that before, only it's needed to read.
    Before chasm the cut off was 1350 points to the most.

  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor

    I can chime in about t100 alliance scores cut offs. Those have dropped noticeably lately. Can't say definitively that Chasm iHulk are the cause, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were. Of course, there might be huge differences from event to event and week to week, depending on the boosted characters. Overall, there still is a drop, though.

    Also, from little chat I've seen in our 2 teams (t100 and t50), people are grumbling about Chasm.

    I get a feeling some of the higher placing (and scoring) people on LINE may be in their own little bubble when it comes to mmr, top 10, highest scores and so on... :)

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards

    Out of curiosity, when did the 50 win requirements for PvP progression start? When I was in the Polaris meta I did 75.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    Not long after BCS took over: somewhere in late June to July.

    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/86951/versus-wins-rewards-change#latest

    When win based pvp was introduced, player engagement dropped as well.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Kolence said:
    I can chime in about t100 alliance scores cut offs. Those have dropped noticeably lately. Can't say definitively that Chasm iHulk are the cause, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were. Of course, there might be huge differences from event to event and week to week, depending on the boosted characters. Overall, there still is a drop, though.

    Also, from little chat I've seen in our 2 teams (t100 and t50), people are grumbling about Chasm.

    I get a feeling some of the higher placing (and scoring) people on LINE may be in their own little bubble when it comes to mmr, top 10, highest scores and so on... :)

    You're probably right about that bubble, yeah.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,722 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:
    Weird. I'm definitely still seeing them. Again, not as much as normal but it's not like they aren't there. I skip them still just because they take longer to defeat.

    Yeah, I definitely saw them too. I was generally running Carnage/Shang, but for those teams I ran SW/Shang for the ability to generate purple. It was harder than other teams, but for 50+ points it was worth it.

    Doesn't challenge my general point.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards

    Spider-Man/Shang-Chi both boosted makes for a very easy counter to unboosted chasm-hulk. SMPP really needs a rebalance to be viable unboosted though.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    And his green can hit a total of 6 times. If I'd him champed, I would use him with SC.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    His health is very low unboosted, and he doesn’t hit that hard. So in simulator it isn’t quite what you want it to be. He only has 52,330 health at 450, and that green costs 10ap to randomly do ~5700 up to 5 times. Stick around is cheap at 6ap, but it’s top color so it can be not always easy to fire depending on the board.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    @dianetics said:
    PP Spider-Man is overtuned for what Chasm is doing right now. I’m really surprised I’m not seeing Chasm iHulk PPSpidey in pick 3 right now.

    PP is a 5* that does a 2 turn team stun for 6ap. Probably the strongest stun on the 5* tier.

    SMPP has been in the game in the DOA pile for like 4 years now, I would suggest that it is perhaps Chasm who is overtuned? “Fixing” Spider man because of Chasm would be like that time Danver5 got “fixed” because of (I assume) Polaris and BRB.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    I find SMPP's kits useful and good. He's just unlucky that a lot of his partners are in 4* land because his abilities revolve around web tiles.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards

    Well, unlucky, or you might say he was designed to play-down like Hawkeye seemed to be for such a long time when he was attached at the hip to Coulson.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Spider 5* has 50k health. Nothing to compare with shulk 83k health at same baby champed.
    Also 6 blues is cheap but with chasm and his void tiles 0 AP it could be a lot. And AI will use it when there is no web available. AI can try hard to do it.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,003 Chairperson of the Boards

    Thanos completely smokes Chasm/Hulk. You don't need Thanos at a very high level, either. All you do is kill Hulk over and over.

    There's a weird order of operations thing with Hulk and Court Death...if you kill Chasm, he'll resurrect and stun you before Court Death fires. But if you kill Hulk, he'll immediately resurrect and hurt Chasm, then Court Death will fire, hitting both and stunning both. If Court Death downs them both you win. Otherwise continue killing Hulk until Court Death downs them both.

    It's also (apparently) really hard for Chasm/Hulk to beat Thanos on offense, because Chasm dies a lot on offense and the order of operations is reversed so you'll eat Court Death a bunch.

    Thanos is a way way better counter than that new guy, because Chasm/Hulk will steamroll that guy when he's on defense.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards

    Thanos is pretty great, at baby champ levels his health is way better than most 5 from that vintage. His purple shuts down void tile and web tile production also. Just needs a good partner.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    I'm not sure about that because the meta back then was probably different.

    Emma Frost is pretty good if you can get her blue out before Thanos triggers Court Death: + a minimum of 70% power damage. His getting boosted on December 22 means a level 450->569 Thanos would be dealing ~60k AoE.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,003 Chairperson of the Boards

    Chasm and Hulk both hurt themselves a lot, so Court Death doesn't need to be hitting for 100,000 to end the fight. Even if yours is like 10k it should work.

    Try it! Bring your highest match damage 5* (or a guy with free passive damage) and Thanos. Attack only Hulk. When Hulk dies and resurrects, attack him again until he dies again. Repeat until you win.

    Court Death is balanced for enemies that can only die once -- with infinite resurrections it's infinitely busted.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards

    I was using it for awhile. It was definitely working, but if you go back to the start of this thread you’ll see I was getting some weird timings with Court Death and Chasm that were making it hard to be consistent.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor

    @HoundofShadow said:
    I'm not sure about that because the meta back then was probably different.

    Emma Frost is pretty good if you can get her blue out before Thanos triggers Court Death: + a minimum of 70% power damage. His getting boosted on December 22 means a level 450->569 Thanos would be dealing ~60k AoE.

    Are you sure Emma can boost Court Death? I don't think Okoye boosts that because she gets stunned.

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