The ChaHulk meta

ThaRoadWarrior

What is the 4* player experience facing Chasm? I assume he is around partially covered but I’m curious if he is a big problem like that or not. There are so many more 4* powers that can help against him compared to the 5* tier (assuming level parity) that I wonder if he is even an issue.

Sekilicious

There is a thread on Reddit complaining about lack of variety in PvP and more than a few of the posts are about Polaris. I’m not sure how many of the forum members here are real 4* players (KGB and Skittledaddy don’t qualify anymore, lol).

Bad

@killahKlown said:

You know, there are 4* players in this game. They are entitled to post about 4* teams. Not everything has to be about you. The title of this thread is not "Help BAD defeat Chasm". You are not a moderator, you don't get to tell us what we can't discuss.

As a 5* player, I'm just saying 4* characters countering don't work for me. Can I say it? Or are you a moderator and you won't let me?
As it's mentioned, almost all forumers are 5* players, or at least they say it, so it's another reason for my argument.
Now you can discuss anything, you have my permission lol.
Oh, and I don't need your help to defeat chasm, by the way, but if you feel better you can give me hints

KGB

@Sekilicious said:
There is a thread on Reddit complaining about lack of variety in PvP and more than a few of the posts are about Polaris. I’m not sure how many of the forum members here are real 4* players (KGB and Skittledaddy don’t qualify anymore, lol).

Hey Now!

I'm still a 4* player as long as continue to see 4* MRR opponents.

4* MMR (at least mine in the L350 range) consists of the following:
1) Polaris
2) JThor
3) Chasm
4) Weekly Boosted 5*

Roughly 9/10 teams fall into that category and often you see them combined (ie JThor + Polaris or Chasm + Polaris or boosted 5* + Chasm and so on). The final 1/10 team is something other than those 4 above. Less than 1/20 teams is dual 4* boosted.

The 5* I do see are rarely fully covered (until I hit 600+ points) but typically have 6-10 covers to they are useful. And yes, I see ChaHulk teams once I hit 800ish points and get close to breaking MMR.

I can still reach 25 wins but it takes a LOT of skips to get there now plus a lot of health pack it never used to require.

KGB

Mr_F

@HoundofShadow said:

Oscorp Spidey and 4* Emma can disable entire targeted enemy's abilities.

Are we really 100% living in Times when SOMEBODY is suggesging using 4* Emma Frost and is not riddiculled, lol-ed or rotfl-ed to death? Beatifull Times. Waiting for Talos and my waifu.

helix72

For those of you that have stated Chasm/iHulk is easy to beat in pick 2, people have figured it out, you just need to know how, etc, etc, if you really want to help out how about posting videos of you beating them to help the rest of us apparently less skilled players?

revskip

@Bowgentle said:
I dunno, I'm seeing a lot of Knull, Adam and even Thor this PVP.
And they're a pain.
So maybe not broken, after all?

Boosted Knull shuts it down hard. Tried to retal a Knull/Kitty team with my iHulk/Chasm and got absolutely rocked. Then took it out for a spin against a couple of iHulk/Chasm teams and it is real effective.

As usual when Chasm isn't boosted Switch/Colossus, & Electro/Apoc (especially this event where you have a mutant along as a third) both work really well too. You'll eat some healthpacks but it is quicker than mirror matching.

HoundofShadow

It's not easy to find Chasm/iHulk team. They got buried by a sea of Thor/Knull and Knull/AW.

Sekilicious

@KGB said:
Hey Now!

I'm still a 4* player as long as continue to see 4* MRR opponents.

4* MMR (at least mine in the L350 range) consists of the following:
1) Polaris
2) JThor
3) Chasm
4) Weekly Boosted 5*

Roughly 9/10 teams fall into that category and often you see them combined (ie JThor + Polaris or Chasm + Polaris or boosted 5* + Chasm and so on). The final 1/10 team is something other than those 4 above. Less than 1/20 teams is dual 4* boosted.

Ok you win, though I was 100% teasing. Your MMR is much different than mine. I do have to say the idea to drop the wins to reach rewards by 25 is a huge quantity of life improvement. 75 wins wasn’t that big of deal when I was in the Polaris MMR but it would have definitely been more annoying in the Chasm MMR.

Bad

This week it's expected half chahulk team and half AW/knull, as they are unfriendly to face on. And after 500 points that's what I saw. Chahulk team will wait until next week, they are not in hurry.
By the way the first pvp in season first slice ended. I was told in off season pvp there were less points. Indeed! 47 points less.
The points for t50 on my slice has been 897.
Shall I continue marking it? Or can we already say that the chahulk team has eliminated the points option for a great amount of players?

ThaRoadWarrior

I don’t know what it is, but none of these pick-2 teams are really working for me. I have my Jane at 4/4/5, Electro is 5/5/3 (more yellow doesn’t change the AP generation), is this not the right build?

Bowgentle

@Bad said:
This week it's expected half chahulk team and half AW/knull, as they are unfriendly to face on. And after 500 points that's what I saw. Chahulk team will wait until next week, they are not in hurry.
By the way the first pvp in season first slice ended. I was told in off season pvp there were less points. Indeed! 47 points less.
The points for t50 on my slice has been 897.
Shall I continue marking it? Or can we already say that the chahulk team has eliminated the points option for a great amount of players?

Who cares, these players can go for wins.

HoundofShadow

A lot of players were skeptical about Silver Surfer's Black Hole countering Chasm because it costs 12 black aps and it's almost impossible to fire it against them.

First, we need to understand how Chasm's black power work. Chasm will reduce up to 3 aps (1 Abyss tile = 1 ap deduction) of the front character's 6 strongest colours in a specific order: from the highest value to the lowest value.

Why is this important to know? Because it allows you to predict exactly when Chasm will reduce your black aps. Black Hole costs 12 aps, which means it will take at least 4 turns to fire the power and another 3 turns to down him.

Here's the set up:
+1 all ap , +2 blue/purple, + 2 black/green.
Now, Silver Surfer's Black Hole cost 9 aps.

If Chasm's build is 5/X/X, the fastest number of turn to take him to eat your black aps is the 3rd turn because he reduces up to 3 ap a turn. If you +2 all ap, it will increase by 1 turn.

If Chasm's build is 4/XX, the fastest number of turn to take him to eat your black aps is the 4th because he reduces up to 2 aps per turn.

Since SS can't be stunned, the first match will always be black/blue/red, and Chasm will always reduce your blue ap first.
On your second turn, Wanda can use her purple on black to create more black tiles.

After this, it's down to board reading. If you are so unlucky that you can't get any black matches, then use Wanda to tank to delay Chasm reaching your black aps, while she's creating black tiles.

Based on my experience with this particular team, it takes me an average of 5 turns to gather 12 or more black aps, and I would fire it on the 6th turn and Chasm would be downed on your 10th turn. The average time taken to hit 'Victory' is ~2 minutes, which is slightly faster than my Dr Thor/Iceman team. I'm not sure how fast players want a counter team to beat Chasm/iHulk. 1 minute?

As for placement of Black Hole, if you want to play it safe, you can put it at the top right or top left corner. Here's three videos of Wanda/Silver Surfer against Chasm/iHulk. It took me a lot of skips to find them in Cyclops pvps:

Against baby champed Chasm
https://streamable.com/kywo02

Against high level Chasm
https://streamable.com/8nayd4
https://streamable.com/xyrkzq

ThaRoadWarrior

Just a reminder that Electra is really good against Knull, who feeds her free strikes every turn.

Sekilicious

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
I don’t know what it is, but none of these pick-2 teams are really working for me. I have my Jane at 4/4/5, Electro is 5/5/3 (more yellow doesn’t change the AP generation), is this not the right build?

I keep my Thor at 5/3/5. That red gets nasty the longer the match goes. I once had it hit for 70k unboosted, though most often it is around 25k. The extra charged tile for blue is irrelevant in most cases. I haven’t seen Thor/Electro recommended anywhere as a counter though so I expect it doesn’t work consistently. I just wanted to try them.

Bowgentle

@HoundofShadow said:
A lot of players were skeptical about Silver Surfer's Black Hole countering Chasm because it costs 12 black aps and it's almost impossible to fire it against them.

First, we need to understand how Chasm's black power work. Chasm will reduce up to 3 aps (1 Abyss tile = 1 ap deduction) of the front character's 6 strongest colours in a specific order: from the highest value to the lowest value.

Why is this important to know? Because it allows you to predict exactly when Chasm will reduce your black aps. Black Hole costs 12 aps, which means it will take at least 4 turns to fire the power and another 3 turns to down him.

Here's the set up:
+1 all ap , +2 blue/purple, + 2 black/green.
Now, Silver Surfer's Black Hole cost 9 aps.

If Chasm's build is 5/X/X, the fastest number of turn to take him to eat your black aps is the 3rd turn because he reduces up to 3 ap a turn. If you +2 all ap, it will increase by 1 turn.

If Chasm's build is 4/XX, the fastest number of turn to take him to eat your black aps is the 4th because he reduces up to 2 aps per turn.

Since SS can't be stunned, the first match will always be black/blue/red, and Chasm will always reduce your blue ap first.
On your second turn, Wanda can use her purple on black to create more black tiles.

After this, it's down to board reading. If you are so unlucky that you can't get any black matches, then use Wanda to tank to delay Chasm reaching your black aps, while she's creating black tiles.

Based on my experience with this particular team, it takes me an average of 5 turns to gather 12 or more black aps, and I would fire it on the 6th turn and Chasm would be downed on your 10th turn. The average time taken to hit 'Victory' is ~2 minutes, which is slightly faster than my Dr Thor/Iceman team. I'm not sure how fast players want a counter team to beat Chasm/iHulk. 1 minute?

As for placement of Black Hole, if you want to play it safe, you can put it at the top right or top left corner. Here's three videos of Wanda/Silver Surfer against Chasm/iHulk. It took me a lot of skips to find them in Cyclops pvps:

Against baby champed Chasm
https://streamable.com/kywo02

Against high level Chasm
https://streamable.com/8nayd4
https://streamable.com/xyrkzq

Thing is, you can't do that above 800, you'll come out to a -250.
It's like putting out a grill.
Also, your Surfer should have died in the first video 🤣

Bad

@Bowgentle said:

Who cares, these players can go for wins.

So you nonchalantly said that.
I'd never say who cares about a situation when players could win all the rewards on progression on ~26 wins and now they need to do it on double the wins, that's it, a QoL reduction (and look how bad I am, perhaps we should change names).
Also these players can go for wins, or not, that fact only devs will know. If not is the case, I'd never say who cares if the game is played in less amount by a lot of players (yeah, I know, to that you will answer who cares too).
@HoundofShadow your great counter has some flaws. You need to use +1 All which is a HP resource and a lot of +2 (can't you see you are meaning here that the chahulk team is so superior that needs all that?)
Also you need SS who is a classic character and a huge amount of players don't have him and it will be really hard to champ him. Count me as one of them.
The counter should be a new character, and also appealing like chasm.
If not it won't serve to me.

Bad

@HoundofShadow said:

Here's the set up:
+1 all ap , +2 blue/purple, + 2 black/green.
Now, Silver Surfer's Black Hole cost 9 aps.

Oh, I really love this phrase. Worthy if the best salesmen.
9 AP is a whole world! If you are only counting on SW's help, not, it isn't so easy that now Black Hole costs 9 AP.

ThaRoadWarrior

I’d like to see some more videos of Jane/Iceman. That team seems like it should work, but for me one or the other gets wiped out super fast. Iceman is one of my best characters at 463 and it doesn’t seem to matter. I just always end up with dry boards or CDs that are miles away from the tiles getting destroyed by Jane.

HoundofShadow

@Bad I don't see anything wrong with using ap boost. I believe that when the dev created this, the original intention was to help players deal with difficult battle. Some players would rather skip Chasm/iHulk than deal with them and pay 10 iso-8 per skip. Sure, they can close and reopen the app to mitigate this cost but they are trading 30-45 seconds for this savings. Each match against Chasm cost only 10 HP and 160 iso-8. In my ~20 wins to reach 1200 or so, Chasm/iHulk team contributes to about 4-5 wins per pvp. The total cost is ~50 HP and ~900 iso-8. If you're so hard up for HP, you can always pull from Spicy Vault to get +2 ap.

If Silver Surfer's Black Hole is too cheap, people will probably have a hard time climbing and snipers would probably love using Black Hole. If it's 6-7aps, you'll down a character as fast as the 5th turn. If it's 8-10ap, it would be as fast as the 7th turn. Black Hole can down any character, and not just Chasm. How many baby champed 5* can down a 672 character on your 5th turn without using Whales? What about the 7th turn? Maybe? What about 10th turn? Probably?

That's the problem: You want a counter that is new and appealing as Chasm: great on defense and drag out matches. Then, chances are you are going to complain when this new counter slows down your matches and makes you eat healthpacks every match. Why? Because players who play optimally will start using this counter. If you are choosy about all the 5* counters there are available out there, then I think it's a problem you created for yourself. You were also complaining about Riri/Dr Thor as a counter to Chasm.

@Bowgentle My Silver Surfer is at only ~40k HP. If he's champed, he wouldn't have died. What's important is that Wanda/Silver Surfer is the most predictable counter you can put against Chasm. Based on my experiences putting out "grills" that are counters to Chasm/iHulk, I do get hit sometimes, but not -250. It's usually -40 to -50 but since I mostly hit characters with 60-75 points, I usually end up positive. I do come out of battle with negative ~150 or so but it happens infrequently. Coming out of pvp with -40 to -150 has happened to me before the existence of Chasm. Personally, I find that it's a norm to get hit once every few battles. I'm still hitting my 1200 in 18-22 wins. If you're playing competitively, then you'd already have good counter to Chasm/iHulk. I saw that AoE teamups like 5* Prof X is good and seems to be popular.

@ThaRoadWarrior I'll try to make more videos of Dr Thor/Iceman. If dry board is an issue, then it's likely RNG. Bad matches do happen regardless of who you use.