The ChaHulk meta

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  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    Players want meta counters that are also good on defense. Every players who play optimally started using that counter. Shield SIM or pvps are filled with those counters. Players complain about how all those meta counters are causing increased healthpack usage and increased playtime due to them slowing down matches. Also, shield sim are boring because they see only those meta counters most of the time. Players want a counter to that meta counter, and that counter to that meta counters must be good on defense. Players started using counter to that meta counters, which is also good on defense. Matches were slow because that counter to meta counters is good on defense.

    My question is, will players ever get out of this loop? No. Never. As long as you expect counter to be good on defense, you'll be stuck in this loop forever. For the rest of your MPQ life, you'll be complaining about how matches are slow, how you are using healthpacks and how you are forced to use counter that is also good on defense.

  • Nibby
    Nibby Posts: 36 Just Dropped In

    @Bowgentle said:
    Yeah, no.
    This would completely murder every revive character, because you could kill them all with a MBW team-up.
    Easy fix, sure, but one of those nerfs that make those characters unusable.

    Why would it murder those characters? They still have all their powers without restrictions, but people get a chance to defeat them more easily, if they manage to stun them in the right moment. Thus we will see more variety in the meta.

    But maybe there are better solutions. What would be a better option that does not create a new annoying meta, we need a fix for in a few weeks?

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:
    Nobody is "losing out", there's still 25 people getting t25 rewards.
    Maybe YOU are missing out because you can't snipe A teams on hops anymore, but it's still 25 people in t25.
    It's the same number of brackets.

    To get 20 shards for a old 5* and a 4* cover is nothing compared with 18 cps a 4* cover and shards
    People playing pvp are missing.
    Variety on pvp is missing.
    Just because this meta benefits you I think no one objectively can say that it benefits the game.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    So I think things are still at the respectful disagreement stage but let’s not escalate.

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,287 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Nibby said:
    I really don't want nerfs, but in this case I think that an easy fix might be to make stunned characters unable to be revived.
    If a stunned character gets downed,it should stay dead.
    This way the revivable characters don't lose any powers and those fighting against them get an opening to defeat them.

    I had the same idea. Other mobile games I play with characters that revive or do something else when they die don't have those effects happen if you stun them. It's not a guarantee as you have to have a character that can stun on your team, stun the right character when they are close to death and without them having another character taunting and eating the stun instead, but it is at least a possibility to get around it.

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,287 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:
    Yeah, no.
    This would completely murder every revive character, because you could kill them all with a MBW team-up.
    Easy fix, sure, but one of those nerfs that make those characters unusable.

    How would it make them unusable? The AI wouldn't be smart enough to stun chasm right before a kill and they aren't likely to have a mbw team up with them. Absolutely nothing would change for you to be able to play chasm, it would just give people a possibility to take him down.

    It wouldn't make him "unusable", it would make him and ihulk no longer a free shield in pvp like he is now or as bishop once was.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 583 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2022

    @Bad said:
    The threshold to t50 was 850 points.
    Before the chahulk meta never was lower than 1350.
    That means that, exactly like me, there are thousands of players who don't even try to get all rewards and are losing a lot of resources because this meta is repetitive, boring, and exclusive.
    It's needed a character hard countering chasm in the same way that SW hard countered Ihulk, and it must be a character good who could do something on defense (not some ridiculous 4* or a ridiculously old 5* losing more points that the ones which could be earned trying to beat chahulk teams).
    And this hard counter character is needed since 2 months ago. Each day passing without him pvp gets worse.

    You assume a lot. Plenty of people are getting their 50 wins and shielding early. Thats's what ive been doing. Hard to speculate people are missing out on all these rewards just because maybe you are.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    This is a video of the opponents I get during Riri's pvp in slice 1. In it, you'll also see that I got 1210 points in 22 wins.

    https://streamable.com/14qxdt

    About 50% are iHulk/Chasm, which is not out of a norm for my mmr. Before this meta, I see largely Wanda/Colossus in my queue when they were the meta.

    It's not that I can't sympathise. It's because my experience seems so different from others in slice 1. People talk about having a target on your back if you don't use iHulk/Chasm to climb but I didn't use them and still hit 1200 points in 22 wins. I'm not in any Line group and I didn't shield hop.

  • skittledaddy
    skittledaddy Posts: 999 Critical Contributor

    Has Chasm not taken over SSIM yet or is it just my favorable 4* MMR skewing things again?
    I climbed straight from zero to 2,000 last night in SSIM and didn't have to face Chasm (with any combination of teammate) at all.
    I didn't get hit a single time, either.
    I just used Jane/PolGrocket most of the time. A couple of times I used my own Chasm/IHulk/Jane to pick on some BRB teams, but those were rare deviations.
    I think I saw maybe 10-12 Chasm/IHulk teams in my queues the entire time. That's it. And I definitely skipped those myself because there were plenty of other options to hit instead.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 583 Critical Contributor

    I agree with Hound. I've never used Chasm and I'm climbing to top5 with relative ease. Not getting hit any more than before Chasm was around. It's possible I'm being hit even less than before.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    In 5* land, at least 50% of the team is made up of iHulk/Chasm in shield sim once you climb high enough (>~1500). Before them, it was largely Wanda/Colossus/Apocalypse and Kitty/BRB/Polaris.

    In the current Spiderman PvP, it's super easy to play against Chasm/iHulk. The strategy is to have at least 5 blue aps ready before you down Chasm, then let him revive and stun him for 3 turns (thanks to web tiles created by Chasm). 3 turn is usually more than enough time for JJ or Yellowjacket or even Hela to finish him after his revival. If not, concetrate on blue match and then stun him for another 3 turns. Even if you don't have boosted 5*, Colossus/Wanda works as well. If you say it's impossible to get 5 blue aps before he is downed, please read his black power slowly and carefully, and you'll discover this super tip to turn the tide in Spiderman's pvp.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards

    @skittledaddy said:
    Has Chasm not taken over SSIM yet or is it just my favorable 4* MMR skewing things again?
    I climbed straight from zero to 2,000 last night in SSIM and didn't have to face Chasm (with any combination of teammate) at all.
    I didn't get hit a single time, either.

    Must have been your MMR. After 17-1800 I had great difficulty queuing an non immortal team. Granted, I climbed with 3 days left so I could hop to higher than 2000.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Sekilicious said:

    @skittledaddy said:
    Has Chasm not taken over SSIM yet or is it just my favorable 4* MMR skewing things again?
    I climbed straight from zero to 2,000 last night in SSIM and didn't have to face Chasm (with any combination of teammate) at all.
    I didn't get hit a single time, either.

    Must have been your MMR. After 17-1800 I had great difficulty queuing an non immortal team. Granted, I climbed with 3 days left so I could hop to higher than 2000.

    It was like that from day two.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    @killahKlown said:

    You assume a lot. Plenty of people are getting their 50 wins and shielding early. Thats's what ive been doing. Hard to speculate people are missing out on all these rewards just because maybe you are.

    First, to say that plenty of people are getting their 50 wins and shielding is to assume a big time too.
    Second the logic of my statement I think it's obvious: t50 with 850 points makes fairly hard to get all rewards on progression.
    Before the chahulk meta you could easily get all 1200 on progression, and then try to rank t50. Now it's not a so easy option.
    You can try to adapt and fight the 50 wins, or to shield a good amount of extra times now than before, or just get 500 points and don't bother anymore. That's the option I happily choose.
    But me taking that option doesn't deny the fact which I was talking about.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,454 Chairperson of the Boards

    I'm not actually seeing many Chasms in the spider-man pvp - it's shockingly good Cable representation below 500pts. I'm sure things will change when I try to get closer to 1200. I've been using half-thor + Jessica Jones/Cable/Yellowjacket for the most part, it's pretty fast against non-chasm, non-ihulk having teams who can clean your thor out from the back.

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,287 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    @Bad said:

    @killahKlown said:

    You assume a lot. Plenty of people are getting their 50 wins and shielding early. Thats's what ive been doing. Hard to speculate people are missing out on all these rewards just because maybe you are.

    First, to say that plenty of people are getting their 50 wins and shielding is to assume a big time too.
    Second the logic of my statement I think it's obvious: t50 with 850 points makes fairly hard to get all rewards on progression.
    Before the chahulk meta you could easily get all 1200 on progression, and then try to rank t50. Now it's not a so easy option.
    You can try to adapt and fight the 50 wins, or to shield a good amount of extra times now than before, or just get 500 points and don't bother anymore. That's the option I happily choose.
    But me taking that option doesn't deny the fact which I was talking about.

    If you're worried about placement, you may want to try a lower scoring slice of pvp. I play in slice 2 and I used to have to climb to around 1300 points to get into top 10. Lately the scores have been so low that I can score top 10 with just 1000 points and sometimes even less.

    I've just been staying unshielded the whole pvp and getting my 50 wins on non chasm teams as soon as I can and then climbing as high as I can in the last few hours. It's actually been a real HP saver and I'm still getting my 18 cp and top 10 placement more often than not.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,454 Chairperson of the Boards

    As a fun experiment, I figured I'd attempt to find some Chasm/Hulks and try to bring Boosted Cable/Thor up against them. I put Thor on the left, Cable on the right, so that if Spider-Man got stomped by a bad cascade it would shuffle Cable up to the front next. I started with +2 red/yellow and +2 black/green and it works surprisingly well. Spider-man's cheap blue stun can help you hang on to enough green to fire off the big blaster, and if you down chasm with it, it will proc damage on Hulk before his revive kicks in so you can get them both with it.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 583 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2022

    I'm having zero problems just using JJ and a weak 450 Wanda. Wanda is there to limit damage and to weaken Chasm's abilities. JJ does the rest, quite quickly actually.

    It's not as dire as many of you are making it sound. You just have to be creative with your teams. Look for characters that have strong second and third abilities because you can expect Chasm to drain your top color AP. The only thing that sucks is the lack of variety in teams out there. But thats not on the developers, it's on the players who choose to roll with that boring lame team.

  • IrisRyu
    IrisRyu Posts: 174 Tile Toppler

    Maybe I’m lucky to have gotten Riri champed early, but I’ve been running her and Jane the past 2 PVP’s and they wipe the floor with Chasm/iHulk. They’re a lot of fun and come out of most matches unscathed (Punisher/Spidey, not so much). Obviously, it’s a bit of a resource drain, since I’m boosting every match, but I’d be doing that with any non-Chasm team anyway.

    To me, Jane/Riri are a HARD counter to both Chasm/iHulk and SW/Col, so I expect them to be all over PVP once Riri enters latest. The next season of PVP will be a little tedious, but I think Chasm/iHulk are going to be kind of irrelevant in another month or so.

    Am I way off the mark or does anybody else think that Chasm’s meta reign will be shorter than most?

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