The ChaHulk meta

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  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    Boosted Sighclops trivializes this team if you have the black available when both your partners die. His last man standing nuke is doing 53784 + 4712/team up, usually around 95k when I end up in that position. I haven’t gone so far as to pair him with a 1-2-3* to use this strategy on purpose, but half-Thor gets killed often enough that you can use this doomsday weapon fairly regularly.

    Interestingly to me, in pick-3 should both chasm and hulk rebirth around Sighclops, it doesn’t trigger his last man standing power to be available.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,722 Chairperson of the Boards

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    Boosted Sighclops trivializes this team if you have the black available when both your partners die. His last man standing nuke is doing 53784 + 4712/team up, usually around 95k when I end up in that position. I haven’t gone so far as to pair him with a 1-2-3* to use this strategy on purpose, but half-Thor gets killed often enough that you can use this doomsday weapon fairly regularly.

    Interestingly to me, in pick-3 should both chasm and hulk rebirth around Sighclops, it doesn’t trigger his last man standing power to be available.

    You have a funny definition of "trivial." Boosted Cyclops' nuke is 13 black. That's a hard ask even when someone is not draining your AP.

    I'm glad you're enjoying the meta, but I guarantee most of us are not. Chasm is pretty boring to play, and even more boring to play against since he effectively cancels out your average match AP. He brings the "passives rule the game" to an even higher level, since you can only rely on your passives.

    This week is relatively ok since Boosted 5 Thor draws enough AP that you can actually do things, and Knull has some reasonable passives on top of that (as well as deliriously high HP and decent match damage.) I'm seeing a lot less Hulk/Chasm, and so long as my Thor isn't too beat up I can take down that team fairly easily. But I'll tell you right now, unless you have a AP gainer in your pick-two we'll be right back to Hulk/Chasm even if the boosted 5s are amazing otherwise.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards

    It’s easy to hang on to black with Thor/Sighclops because you can match black while Thor accrues colors in the background passively and it doesn’t become a high color till Sighclops is alone on the field. Then he one-shots the whole team. I wouldn’t say I’m enjoying the meta, I’m pretty on record in this thread as not being super stoked about it actually, I was just sharing that in this boost week, we have an option that works.

  • Omegased
    Omegased Posts: 626 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2022

    @GrimSkald said:
    You have a funny definition of "trivial." Boosted Cyclops' nuke is 13 black. That's a hard ask even when someone is not draining your AP.

    He will probably earn black without much issue with half thor as Chasm won't eat black.

    It's the same strategy as i mentioned with your nuke in the back, so his AP won't drain.

  • hothie
    hothie Posts: 210 Tile Toppler

    Something that Sekilicious said early on in this thread is something that I noticed too, as I'm sure you all have as well. Chasm doesn't drain team-up ap. So is there a good team up to bring that can be useful against Chasm?
    I actually stumbled across using Devour (1* Venom black) against him, and I'm really starting to like it.

    Devour, (even at 1 cover) if there are at least 8 web tiles on the board (which, let's face it, there usually are), using Devour destroys ALL web tiles on the board. So, if enemy Chasm is relatively medium to low on health, using Devour removes his healing properties, which means he dies far more quickly. I try to bring one with me whenever i face Chasm, as it helps me to break the cycle of endless matching and healing.

    Disclaimer: I usually always skip chasm+ihulk, so I don't know how well this will work against them, but it could be a tool that will help if you're trying to time your chasm dying right before the enemy chasm does.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    The typical team up recommended is 5* Prof X AoE. 1* Black Widow 5 turn stun might be one of them too. If not, you can filter your roster by green because majority of AoE is green.

    The second colour to consider is red because many multi attacks come from red.

    Lastly, I think 5* Deadpool Penance Flare should be good because it has double attack and Chasm is likely to be one shot by it. On top of that's it only 6 tu plus 3 colour aps of the effect chosen. It's the one that deals damage to other enemy. It's +3 yellow ap.

  • hothie
    hothie Posts: 210 Tile Toppler

    @HoundofShadow said:
    The typical team up recommended is 5* Prof X AoE. 1* Black Widow 5 turn stun might be one of them too. If not, you can filter your roster by green because majority of AoE is green.

    The second colour to consider is red because many multi attacks come from red.

    Lastly, I think 5* Deadpool Penance Flare should be good because it has double attack and Chasm is likely to be one shot by it. On top of that's it only 6 tu plus 3 colour aps of the effect chosen. It's the one that deals damage to other enemy. It's +3 yellow ap.

    True, those are some of the usual suspects when it comes to team up usage, with good reason of course, because they work well in many situations. I was trying to highlight one that many may not have thought of before.

    I had a Devour so I absent-mindedly brought it one time, and when I used it, the effect was eye-opening to me. It made me re-read the team-up to make sure I fully understood it. Like I said, timing is key, but it can be very effective if used well, too.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    @HoundofShadow said:
    It's more of a "when" question. When should a new (hard) counter to meta be created, despite existing working counters being available? Should every meta have a hard counter team a couple of months after its release? If that's the case, is there a point in creating meta since it will be hard countered a couple months later? It takes about 3 months-6 months for someone to champ a batch of 5*. If the timing is right, it can be done immediately.Chasm/iHulk became a problem only in mid-October. During those 2-3 months, players were talking about how it wasn't difficult to beat Chasm. We are only about 1.5 months in into Chasm/iHulk meta.

    Sorry, but no, sorry.
    The chahulk meta was discussed even before chasm entering LL: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/87385/chasm-i-hulk-thought

    About counters to meta, absolutely no gacha game will guarantee that your character will be the top for an x amount of time.
    The meta character will be always strong, but counters to him MUST be released in order to protect balance and diversity.
    Players will get them regardless of them being tops.
    And a soft or a hard counter is always better option than a nerf so players will be grateful.

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,686 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    @HoundofShadow said:
    I wonder what hard counter and soft counter mean in MPQ. I actually googled these two definitions, and looking at the replies from various game forums, it doesn't seem like there is a widely agreed consensus on what these two mean.

    Chasm/iHulk is a revive meta. Silver Surfer kills the revive meta and he's immune to stun. If you throw Electro or Wanda together, Wouldn't they make this a hard counter team? Stun team incapitates Chasm and iHulk, rendering them helpless, wouldn't they be considered hard counter team?

    Stun teams don't incapacitate chasm and Ihulk though. Even if you bring a team that can stun both of them, they shake off the stun each> @hothie said:

    Something that Sekilicious said early on in this thread is something that I noticed too, as I'm sure you all have as well. Chasm doesn't drain team-up ap. So is there a good team up to bring that can be useful against Chasm?
    I actually stumbled across using Devour (1* Venom black) against him, and I'm really starting to like it.

    Devour, (even at 1 cover) if there are at least 8 web tiles on the board (which, let's face it, there usually are), using Devour destroys ALL web tiles on the board. So, if enemy Chasm is relatively medium to low on health, using Devour removes his healing properties, which means he dies far more quickly. I try to bring one with me whenever i face Chasm, as it helps me to break the cycle of endless matching and healing.

    Disclaimer: I usually always skip chasm+ihulk, so I don't know how well this will work against them, but it could be a tool that will help if you're trying to time your chasm dying right before the enemy chasm does.

    You can also use a 3 star deadpool whales team up if you have enough deadpool points to insta win the game. That's the surest counter I've found so far.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    I'm not sure if Oscorp Spidey's red can be sent as a teamup, but he removes all web tiles and then create up to 4(?).

    If 5* Emma's purple can be sent as a teamup, you can use it before Chasm is downed, so that when he revives, his abilities and other enemies' abilities are reduced by 3 levels.

    I think 5* land, as of today, is diverse enough to handle various (future) meta. We got quite a number of defensive characters out this year and last year. If we are talking about a counter that kills the meta immediately, then this is where timing is important. Think Wanda vs iHulkoye. They almost disappear overnight when she was released. However, she came out about 1 year after their existence. I believe there should be a period where players should have sufficient time to play around with new ideas on how to counter new meta, instead of giving up or asking for nerf without trying. If the players don't want to deal with them, they can always skip. However, skipping is merely running away from problem, rather than gaining new insights or ideas. Meta comes and goes and you can only skip this much before players give up.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,708 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Tony_Foot said:
    God boost Shang permanently. Didn’t see a single chasm to 25 wins/1000 points ;)

    Not sure what SCL you play in PVP but I saw plenty of Chasm around win 12 or so in CoverSquirrel in SCL10. Now, definitely not as much as normal but I certainly saw Chasm.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Tony_Foot said:
    God boost Shang permanently. Didn’t see a single chasm to 25 wins/1000 points ;)

    Not sure what SCL you play in PVP but I saw plenty of Chasm around win 12 or so in CoverSquirrel in SCL10. Now, definitely not as much as normal but I certainly saw Chasm.

    SCL has nothing to do with the teams you see.
    That is purely based on your highest characters.

    And yes, zero Chasms in dual 5* MMR

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,708 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Tony_Foot said:
    God boost Shang permanently. Didn’t see a single chasm to 25 wins/1000 points ;)

    Not sure what SCL you play in PVP but I saw plenty of Chasm around win 12 or so in CoverSquirrel in SCL10. Now, definitely not as much as normal but I certainly saw Chasm.

    SCL has nothing to do with the teams you see.
    That is purely based on your highest characters.

    And yes, zero Chasms in dual 5* MMR

    Apologies as I seem to never remember that about PPV. However, I am also using dual 5* (SC/Carnage) and see Chasm in at least every third team once I hit my 12th win.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    Interesting. I'm not seeing them at all.
    Tons of Jane Shang, though.

    Edit:
    OK, i see a couple now, but usually it's 95% Hulkasm, this is like two guys out of 20.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,708 Chairperson of the Boards

    Weird. I'm definitely still seeing them. Again, not as much as normal but it's not like they aren't there. I skip them still just because they take longer to defeat.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    This makes it the fourth (at least) boost week Chasm got scared since start of October. Chasm with much fewer appearances are bold, based on what I remember. However, high mmr might be different, especially 550.

    1. 9/29 - 10/6 
    5-Star: Apocalypse, Electro, Killmonger, Magneto

    1. 10/6 - 10/13 (??)
      5-Star: Doctor Strange, Elektra, Gamora, Storm

    2. 10/13 - 10/20 (Chasm)
      5-Star: Deadpool, Jean Grey, Kingpin, Wolverine (OML)

    3. 10/20 - 10/27 (??)
      5-Star: Daredevil, Iceman, Loki, Professor X

    4. 10/27 - 11/3 (??)
      5-Star: Odin, Onslaught, Star-Lord, Wolverine (Daken)

    6. 11/3 - 11/10 
    5-Star: Black Panther, Colossus, Kamala Khan, Thor (Mighty)

    1. 11/10 - 11/17 (Chasm)
      5-Star: Black Panther, Captain America (First Avenger), Ronan, Sersi

    2. 11/17 - 11/24 (Chasm)
      5-Star: Chasm, Crystal, Gambit, Heimdall

    3. 11/24 - 12/1 (Chasm)
      5-Star: Cable, Hela, Jessica Jones, Yellowjacket

    10. 12/1 - 12/8 
    5-Star: Adam Warlock, Cyclops, Knull, Thor (Gladiator)

    11. 12/8 - 12/15 
    5-Star: Carnage, Hawkeye, Shang Chi, Spider-Man (Peter Parker)

    Out of 10 boost weeks, not including his:
    Much fewer Chasm: 4
    Unsure (??): 3
    At least 50% Chasm: 3

    We have 76 5* and another 9 boost weeks to go. I didn't include the boost week in September because Chasm/iHulk wasn't dominant based on what I remember. Again, high mmr might be different because a lot broke for KK/Thor/Chasm batch, which was in late August.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,708 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:
    Weird. I'm definitely still seeing them. Again, not as much as normal but it's not like they aren't there. I skip them still just because they take longer to defeat.

    OK. Now I am not seeing any Chasm. Almost wall to wall SC/MT with a smattering of SC/Carnage.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    I'm not seeing many chasm too, of course SC is a monster boosted who can win anyone.
    However on my MMR first slice, 1 day 7 hours left, I'm with 466 points and I'm t66.
    Where is the people playing? I can win a few battles more for just 50 points and wait for retails...
    But that never happened with SC boosted. Once you let the balance loose, it won't fix easily.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    I'm not sure why you are fixated with your Tx placement, y points at z1 day z2 hour z3 minutes left and then use it as a benchmark to gauge players' engagements. If all 5 pvp slices are combined into one, I think you could use that as a guide if you've 3 to 6 months worth of data.

    How do you even define "balance" when the meaning of counter is subjective?

    Anyway the new character obviously counter Chasm/iHulk, and hopefully, this marks the end of Chasm/iHulk nerf thread.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Because is my detailed game experience, perhaps?
    As you can see they released a hard counter because they acknowledge the big damage that the chahulk meta has done to pvp as they know all the data.
    Not like me or you, however I can figure it out based on my experience in play.