The ChaHulk meta

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  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    In 5* land, at least 50% of the team is made up of iHulk/Chasm in shield sim once you climb high enough (>~1500). Before them, it was largely Wanda/Colossus/Apocalypse and Kitty/BRB/Polaris.

    In the current Spiderman PvP, it's super easy to play against Chasm/iHulk. The strategy is to have at least 5 blue aps ready before you down Chasm, then let him revive and stun him for 3 turns (thanks to web tiles created by Chasm). 3 turn is usually more than enough time for JJ or Yellowjacket or even Hela to finish him after his revival. If not, concetrate on blue match and then stun him for another 3 turns. Even if you don't have boosted 5*, Colossus/Wanda works as well. If you say it's impossible to get 5 blue aps before he is downed, please read his black power slowly and carefully, and you'll discover this super tip to turn the tide in Spiderman's pvp.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards

    @skittledaddy said:
    Has Chasm not taken over SSIM yet or is it just my favorable 4* MMR skewing things again?
    I climbed straight from zero to 2,000 last night in SSIM and didn't have to face Chasm (with any combination of teammate) at all.
    I didn't get hit a single time, either.

    Must have been your MMR. After 17-1800 I had great difficulty queuing an non immortal team. Granted, I climbed with 3 days left so I could hop to higher than 2000.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Sekilicious said:

    @skittledaddy said:
    Has Chasm not taken over SSIM yet or is it just my favorable 4* MMR skewing things again?
    I climbed straight from zero to 2,000 last night in SSIM and didn't have to face Chasm (with any combination of teammate) at all.
    I didn't get hit a single time, either.

    Must have been your MMR. After 17-1800 I had great difficulty queuing an non immortal team. Granted, I climbed with 3 days left so I could hop to higher than 2000.

    It was like that from day two.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    @killahKlown said:

    You assume a lot. Plenty of people are getting their 50 wins and shielding early. Thats's what ive been doing. Hard to speculate people are missing out on all these rewards just because maybe you are.

    First, to say that plenty of people are getting their 50 wins and shielding is to assume a big time too.
    Second the logic of my statement I think it's obvious: t50 with 850 points makes fairly hard to get all rewards on progression.
    Before the chahulk meta you could easily get all 1200 on progression, and then try to rank t50. Now it's not a so easy option.
    You can try to adapt and fight the 50 wins, or to shield a good amount of extra times now than before, or just get 500 points and don't bother anymore. That's the option I happily choose.
    But me taking that option doesn't deny the fact which I was talking about.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards

    I'm not actually seeing many Chasms in the spider-man pvp - it's shockingly good Cable representation below 500pts. I'm sure things will change when I try to get closer to 1200. I've been using half-thor + Jessica Jones/Cable/Yellowjacket for the most part, it's pretty fast against non-chasm, non-ihulk having teams who can clean your thor out from the back.

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,685 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    @Bad said:

    @killahKlown said:

    You assume a lot. Plenty of people are getting their 50 wins and shielding early. Thats's what ive been doing. Hard to speculate people are missing out on all these rewards just because maybe you are.

    First, to say that plenty of people are getting their 50 wins and shielding is to assume a big time too.
    Second the logic of my statement I think it's obvious: t50 with 850 points makes fairly hard to get all rewards on progression.
    Before the chahulk meta you could easily get all 1200 on progression, and then try to rank t50. Now it's not a so easy option.
    You can try to adapt and fight the 50 wins, or to shield a good amount of extra times now than before, or just get 500 points and don't bother anymore. That's the option I happily choose.
    But me taking that option doesn't deny the fact which I was talking about.

    If you're worried about placement, you may want to try a lower scoring slice of pvp. I play in slice 2 and I used to have to climb to around 1300 points to get into top 10. Lately the scores have been so low that I can score top 10 with just 1000 points and sometimes even less.

    I've just been staying unshielded the whole pvp and getting my 50 wins on non chasm teams as soon as I can and then climbing as high as I can in the last few hours. It's actually been a real HP saver and I'm still getting my 18 cp and top 10 placement more often than not.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards

    As a fun experiment, I figured I'd attempt to find some Chasm/Hulks and try to bring Boosted Cable/Thor up against them. I put Thor on the left, Cable on the right, so that if Spider-Man got stomped by a bad cascade it would shuffle Cable up to the front next. I started with +2 red/yellow and +2 black/green and it works surprisingly well. Spider-man's cheap blue stun can help you hang on to enough green to fire off the big blaster, and if you down chasm with it, it will proc damage on Hulk before his revive kicks in so you can get them both with it.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2022

    I'm having zero problems just using JJ and a weak 450 Wanda. Wanda is there to limit damage and to weaken Chasm's abilities. JJ does the rest, quite quickly actually.

    It's not as dire as many of you are making it sound. You just have to be creative with your teams. Look for characters that have strong second and third abilities because you can expect Chasm to drain your top color AP. The only thing that sucks is the lack of variety in teams out there. But thats not on the developers, it's on the players who choose to roll with that boring lame team.

  • IrisRyu
    IrisRyu Posts: 177 Tile Toppler

    Maybe I’m lucky to have gotten Riri champed early, but I’ve been running her and Jane the past 2 PVP’s and they wipe the floor with Chasm/iHulk. They’re a lot of fun and come out of most matches unscathed (Punisher/Spidey, not so much). Obviously, it’s a bit of a resource drain, since I’m boosting every match, but I’d be doing that with any non-Chasm team anyway.

    To me, Jane/Riri are a HARD counter to both Chasm/iHulk and SW/Col, so I expect them to be all over PVP once Riri enters latest. The next season of PVP will be a little tedious, but I think Chasm/iHulk are going to be kind of irrelevant in another month or so.

    Am I way off the mark or does anybody else think that Chasm’s meta reign will be shorter than most?

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think Chasm will be all over the place because they are a defensive juggernaut. Riri/Thor will be a good counter though

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    @IrisRyu said:

    Am I way off the mark or does anybody else think that Chasm’s meta reign will be shorter than most?

    I don't know if chasm's meta reign will be shorter, but already it has been the earliest and the fastest on being unanimous.
    If riri hard counters him it won't be because she is a counter to chasm, but more because she is a counter to everyone.
    And that's actually the flaw of this meta: what chasm does affects every character, and really few can affect chasm, so actually there is no character countering what he does, preventing AP destroy.

    @GrimSkald said:

    .

    It's a bad meta. Worse, it exacerbates problems the game already has - characters with expensive powers are DOA. When fighting Chasm you'll almost never get off a power that's over 8AP unless you have some kind of passive board shake or AP gain.

    It's actually worse than that: you have to chew out 40k Ihulk health and 75k chasm, and most certainly another 20k Ihulk health and 50k chasm, plus another 20k Ihulk and another 20k Ihulk with just passives help.
    And when you finally have the AP to fire a power it won't matter as there are few powers affecting them and also are situational.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    Riri/Dr Thor is an obvious and effective counter tested by players who've already got her champed or close to champed. As someone else said (I can't remember where I saw it), you think too highly of AI's ability to play Dr Thor/Riri perfectly. The only thing they have against players is luck.

    What the dev could do is to post videos of different counter-teams to Chasm/iHulk for players who have trouble dealing with them. Maybe, it could convince them that they're missing something.

    Based on what I've see in reddit and probably here, I've no idea why some players think that it's compulsory to play mirror match against Chasm/iHulk (availability of counters aside), And then when they play mirror matches, they get themselves stucked in 10 minutes or more matches. I would have beaten two-three 60-70 point worth of Chasm/iHulk teams in 10 minutes with my Dr Thor/Iceman or Colossus/Wanda counter, based on my mmr. And I've already posted video of my baby champed Dr Thor/Iceman beating level 500(?) in 2 min 10 seconds. The counters are already out there. I wanted to post video of Wanda/Colossus defeating iHulk/Chasm easily but I don't see the point because players who want Chasm nerfed will simply ignore all these counters.

    All the above doesn't solve "variety of opponent" problem, which is another set of problem. On the other hand, there are players who are tired of dealing with boosted 5* in pvps, just like how players are tired of dealing with Chasm/iHulk in pvp. I say it Chasm/iHulk is nerfed, take away boosted 5* as well so that more group of players will be happy playing in pvps.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    @HoundofShadow said:
    Riri/Dr Thor is an obvious and effective counter tested by players who've already got her champed or close to champed. As someone else said (I can't remember where I saw it), you think too highly of AI's ability to play Dr Thor/Riri perfectly. The only thing they have against players is luck.

    There was a post in another forum where a player got stunned by Riri for 11 turns and lost in the Spider-Man PvP. I think the problem there was there was no other green outlet for the AI to choose. So I think defensively Thor/Riri will be a step up over Shang-Chi/Chavez (ie not quite trash), where you can get cascaded to an auto-loss. Thor loves her cascades and thrives on chaos (and rng). I still think most boosted characters will eat them alive by matching every charged tile possible.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    Currently, Riri/Dr Thor are still rare in pvp. I would look at consistency of getting stunned by this team. For example, if I play 10 matches against them, and I get stunned more than x turns in 7 or more matches, then it might be tricky. I expect to be stunned at least twice per game against them, depending on what team I bring against them. I do agree that most boosted characters will take them down comfortably.

    The latest dev thought about Chasm/iHulk will be revealed in November Q&A tomorrow because I saw one or two questions related to them. Let's see what the dev says.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards

    There are loads of stun immune good characters now, so a stun lock meta seems unlikely to arise to me.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    There aren't a lot of good ones in the game, based on general perceptions.

    5-star
    Silver Surfer, Moon Knight, Apocalypse (with Mutants), Dr Ock.

    Out of this list, only Apocalypse makes the cut.

    KK can clear stun and go airborne.
    Black Panther benefits from being stunned. If I'm really getting stunned every other turn, I would throw in 5* Emma to boost Black Panther's damage.

    4-star
    Hydra Stomper, Peggy Carter (with Hydra Stomper)

    If you could loosen your requirements, characters who go airborne for 1 turn is considered immune to stun somewhat.

    Then, we would have
    5*: C5rol, Riri, KK
    4*: Vulture, Ikaris, Riri, Throg, Black Knight, Nico's partner (can't remember her name) and probably a few more
    3*: Colossus (throw ally)

    I'm still waiting for my trap meta and waiting for the day where players ask trap meta to be nerfed. >:)

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    Come join me in ushering in the proto trap meta in this spider-man PVP by running Sinister and boosted JJ. This is possible and fun due to the general lack of chasm/hulk teams in rotation.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,722 Chairperson of the Boards

    I'm up to near 500 and have seen two - I expect that I'll see nothing but the team above 800 or so, particularly since Chasm's web tiles help Spider-man's stun, and Chasm tanks everything for Spider-man so those AP pools don't get drained.

    Been running them myself. I'm pretty sure the only time my opponent has gotten a power of any kind off is when I wasn't. Maybe once or twice?

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards

    Because I climbed to 700 or so using a highly beatable team, I’ve mostly been farming retaliations that have overwhelmingly just been boosted pair variations.

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