Theghouse said:If the people involved agreed with your beliefs that CS was doing a stellar job of closing this exploit and removing cheaters using it, given months of having the detailed information about the workings of this particular exploit and numerous reports of suspicious players believed to be using it, the situation would not have reached this point.
HoundofShadow said: I just find it amazing that from September till a few days ago (based on The rockett's timeline), the CS provided zero update to these players who have been filing reports for 6 months. Strangely enough, apart from Dhaunas, they replied to only you and gave you an update on the situation. Those players must be doing something wrong and you are doing something right in order for the CS to give you an update. Wouldn't anyone find this extreme differences amazing?I've reported problems to the CS a few times and the typical flow is an automatic reply, followed by queries from CS within 48 hours (usually 24 hours) to understand more about the situation, and they will reply within 48 hours (usually 24 hours) after I replied them. Whether they are able to solve the problem or not, they'll let me know. Just because you find some players suspicious doesn't mean they have to be boxed. It's like sending anyone suspicious to prison cells without giving them a chance to defend themselves.About 3 years ago in this Q&A thread, this is what one of the dev answered about cheating/exploits:It's hard to be super specific about cheats and exploits without saying something that makes it easier for cheaters to cheat, but:- We've closed a couple of significant exploits over the last six months.- In the past year, we've banned 13,671 accounts for cheating.- Most games have some delay between when they detect a cheater and when they're removed from the game, in order to make it more difficult for cheaters to reverse engineer the cheat detection systems and work around them.- We investigate every report that comes into CS about cheating. We appreciate the reports and they've directly helped us shut down several exploits over the years. A large proportion of reports are mistaken (two common causes of this: 1) some players think they know about all the buy clubs and don't recognize players who use a different set of them; 2) sometimes players bank a whole bunch of currency or tokens over the course of many many months (sometimes years) and spend them all at once). We don't typically respond to the individual reports with specifics, because that could reveal information about how cheat detection works. Put that together and that allows the perception of cheating and its impact to be larger than the reality. I'm not sure how to fix this, and not 100% sure we should - any amount of cheating is a big deal and we're working to get it to zero and keep it there, so I'd rather deal with mistaken cheat reports than not hear about an issue.https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/781200/#Comment_781200This has been their stand about cheating all along and they have already shared how they deal with reports. Let's take it that some players are just forgetful. Maybe we can pin this up or get those players to pin this reply in their LINE chats.
The rockett said: Well at least we now know the exploit that @dhaunas used is now closed. 1 down,1 more to go.
gravel said: The rockett said: Well at least we now know the exploit that @dhaunas used is now closed. 1 down,1 more to go. It is? Is that with the new update today?
ThaRoadWarrior said: Theghouse said:If the people involved agreed with your beliefs that CS was doing a stellar job of closing this exploit and removing cheaters using it, given months of having the detailed information about the workings of this particular exploit and numerous reports of suspicious players believed to be using it, the situation would not have reached this point. It's worth pointing out that in the game industry, Player Support/Customer Service is rarely, if ever, a contributing member of a development team (unless you're dealing with an ultra small indie development team or a startup), so all they would be doing is managing the communication thread with a user and creating a bug/issue/feature ticket for the actual dev team to slot into their schedule. Nobody in Customer Service is going to be closing down exploits at most companies. I don't work for or have any affiliation with the dev team on this product, but I am in industry and speaking from general experience about what these roles usually look like. I would not expect any followup on a ticket I submitted that was about something not directly pertaining to my account beyond "thanks for your submission." In much the same way I wouldn't expect a school system to give me any kind of status update on a complaint I had about someone else's child, unless whatever that child did directly affected my child. "I saw some other kid showing up to school late." "thanks, we'll look into it." is never going to be followed by "hey nosybody parent, here's how we disciplined that other kid you happened to see." And I get it, we are all being affected here in MPQ in that it's pushing placements down, but even so I would expect this to take the form of a Patch Note telling the whole player base an issue was identified and we're looking into it rather than whoever reported it getting a personal followup. Just look back to the "tapping" fix for how it used to be communicated.
HoundofShadow said: I'm not sure if "criticise" is the word to use. I did "criticise" the dev for being "loose" with their choice of words back in the first run of Shardmas that caused misunderstanding. I also said something about the choice of colour used for the new UI Vaults/Stores etc. The exposing of the exploit didn't start off well. I think it started off with BigSoftieFF asking all the players to stop spending and being angry in that thread a couple months back. It''s understandable that he's angry but if this is the tone used against the CS/Dev, then it won't help his cause. Last week, it turned into a coordinated "attack" on both Reddit and here. If those players didn't speak half truth, I would have thrown my support behind them.I find it weird that on one hand they want devs to communicate in the forum, and on the other hand, some of them made up lies about the dev not doing anything about the exploit. How can things improve between the players and the dev when such things happen? It's like there are some sort of deep level feud between them behind the scene. The last time we had a decent and proper Q&A in the forum was about 3 years ago. It lasted for a couple months and it ended abruptly because some players' egos were bruised when the dev described that they have "expert players" testing/playing the game for them. Some players decided to call the dev out for this, and look what we get. Right now, we've virtually zero communication from the dev.
The reason why the Q&A shut was that the higher ups in Demi and D3 told them to stop. They were pulled back and told to stop. It had nothing to do with the "expert player" comment. Not trying to be mean, but do you think that the little bit of blow back on this comment is the real reason they stopped? Some of us just wanted to know what that "expert player" was because the people on the high end of this game do not think the dev team things of them or this player would represent this group.
One thing that would help with this situation is that a forum rule that your forum ID MUST match your IGN. This would prevent people that were sandboxed on the forums to create another account. This will also help keep people more honest instead of hiding behind a fake ID. If non players want a forum ID, that is fine, but could list it where it says your level as non player or something.
Yepyep said: So... are buy-clubs cheating? That seems a severe to me, but I could be convinced otherwise if the reasoning is thoughtful.
DAZ0273 said: Yepyep said: So... are buy-clubs cheating? That seems a severe to me, but I could be convinced otherwise if the reasoning is thoughtful. Whilst the fact that Buy Clubs even exist and come together on a regular basis is mind blowing to me, I don't see how they are cheating as such.There are no rules adout moving and forming new alliances and Demi/D3 definitely do not have rules against spending money! And it is Demi/D3 offering the invitation to treat of CP for your whole Alliance - so you could say they are the ones actively encouraging such activity.
HoundofShadow said: The reactions were showing slight aggression and sarcasm. A new thread was created just for that. I mean, it's pretty obvious that both sides have different meanings of "expert players". The end result of how the dev answer that question would be quite obvious: getting called out of touch and getting scorned.I shall make some amendment, and it's this: As time passes, each interaction from the dev became fewer and more "distant". After that Q&A, we had dev appearing on podcast answering some questions, then some back and forth interactions from IceIX after Brigby left, followed by live Twitch last year and nothing much.Every time the dev answers a question "wrongly", they get called out of touch etc. One good example was on the topic of feeders. Back then, they said that they felt that feeders were released too quickly, and somehow this got translated into feeders are dead. Players got triggered by how they answered. Then, we have players arguing what the meaning of certain words should mean. The saga from discord in 2019 also contributed to even fewer interactions. The last interaction from the dev was a live Twitch and I saw those comments of elite players having "fun" among themselves.When you start to think about all the "interactions" in the forum with the players and how it always end (and it's mostly ended negatively), you will start to weigh whether it's worth continuing interacting or simply post a couple of times and disappear, until the next time.