Feedback Wanted: Character Balance

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  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2020
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    @Daredevil217

    Admittedly the calls for nerfing Okoye are probably few. Thor gets called out by some, partly because he is so good that he sort of makes newer people just look worse in comparison. 

    Kitty definitely gets called out a lot, especially in the people who are in the 3-4 transition and 4 tier. Gritty is a great combo even with low covers on Kitty and really is everywhere at that level. I suspect a lot of 5 players hate her too, people whose single champed 5 is not a meta have to be hating on Gritty hard in PvP. Of course, they probably want Kitty too. 

    Anyway there have definitely been calls and requests for her nerf. 

    Maybe my broader point is the game will continue to favor the same characters it has for a very long time, barring newer characters that can truly build offense faster.  This could make SCL10 more manageable but would have unknown impacts on pvp as they would also speed up play there.
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Bishop is useless in SCL 10. Match damage wipes him too fast. Maybe if he was boosted. If anything he should seem less in need of nerfing....with the exception of course being when he is boosted to 650 as mentioned above. I’ll sit that one out.
  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    To me, the "balance" however it is (should be better, imo), is about PvP. 
    PvE CL 10 is unbalanced with huge levels (brute force) on purpose. If necessary, we can get a few more moderately boosted 5's or 4's (or 3's) for ourselves. Please, Sir? Mr. Dev? Or slightly more boosted in higher CLs. Whatever.
    I'm liking the increased difficulty still, after one and a half events :D , but i'm guessing I'll get bored quickly if I need to use all the cheesiest teams and strategies all the time. Even with half a 5* cover in there for lazy clears throughout the day. It's a LOT of time (for my roster and sensibilities...)
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2020
    Balance is fine right now
    Yeah clearing scl10 is for people who loves the game. There couldnt be another definition.
    Or at least its the most positive definition posible lol
  • ivanguardist
    ivanguardist Posts: 3 Just Dropped In
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    I agree with the view that balancing should be with the purpose of PVP and not PVE. There are way too many Kitty & GRocket teams in PVP. Even if you were to find a way to get around these teams, it just makes the game a lot less fun than it could have been. It's just GRITTY again and again. Of course I wouldn't mind if they decided to buff all other characters instead, but that is unlikely, therefore, my vote is to nerf Kitty.
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Any update on when to expect changes or is this something that's just gonna be thrown out there and never acted on? Kinda like the autoplay/idle mode from forever ago. 
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2020
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    Is it too late to ask for no excessive buffs to people we’ll see in Challenge Nodes?  Ex:  Don’t make Goblin’s Glider cost 6AP. 
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    bluewolf said:
    Is it too late to ask for no excessive buffs to people we’ll see in Challenge Nodes?  Ex:  Don’t make Goblin’s Glider cost 6AP. 
    How about 6 black to rebuild his glider if it gets destroyed during the match? He has to have a backup glider somewhere right?
  • WiDoW0042
    WiDoW0042 Posts: 26 Just Dropped In
    This has probably been said 100 times already so here’s 101.  Kitty by herself isn’t the problem.  It’s the pairing with Grocket that is difficult to deal with.  It would make more sense to perhaps drop the 7 strikes to 5 and boost Grocket’s green to compensate and not make that character useless.  That said, I attacked a Hawkeye/C4p team with Gritty/ Bishop and that was the only turn I had.  1 turn and my who team down.  There is no scenario I can think of where Gritty could take down a whole decent team where they get one move.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    WiDoW0042 said:
    This has probably been said 100 times already so here’s 101.  Kitty by herself isn’t the problem.  It’s the pairing with Grocket that is difficult to deal with.  It would make more sense to perhaps drop the 7 strikes to 5 and boost Grocket’s green to compensate and not make that character useless.  That said, I attacked a Hawkeye/C4p team with Gritty/ Bishop and that was the only turn I had.  1 turn and my who team down.  There is no scenario I can think of where Gritty could take down a whole decent team where they get one move.
    When facing worthyeye trade out grocket for gamora and do not match blue or black your first 2 turns. Use gamoras stun not bishops. Free win.
  • WiDoW0042
    WiDoW0042 Posts: 26 Just Dropped In
    Thanks for the tip.  Vulture, C4p, Bishop works as well but not nearly as efficiently.
  • ROY84
    ROY84 Posts: 30 Just Dropped In
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    I think it is the prevailing thought that nerfing is not the way. As I stated earlier: All it does is upset people.

    There are FAR too many worthless characters you can boost up. 

    Reduce their AP requirements. Make some of their passives more powerful / less of a requirement. Change some characters movesets entirely. 

    You have some characters with 10-15 ap requirements doing half the damage against people with passives. So unless you want to get rid of passives entirely than just lower the ap requirements, up the damage.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum

    I fight CapHawk with Vulture/Sandman/G4mora, that way I can stun on 2 colors Vulture feeds. It's 100% dependent on getting vulture up quickly, and it's not overly fast, but it's reliable and those teams are generally worth good points.

  • turbomoose
    turbomoose Posts: 806 Critical Contributor
    Some characters could use super soldier serum

    I have A suggested buff or a power for a new character,

    how about a passive power that gives you an extra turn or ability to stun a random opponent on your first attack

    this could help to remedy the worthy cap problem,

    that would have been a great power for someone speedy like quicksilver, or perhaps Loki who deceives his opponent

  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/914347#Comment_914347

    So you make 2 moves every turn? So a 5* character would give worthy a guaranteed 8 countdowns on his first turn. Or bishop a guaranteed 10 ap.

    When you say stun randomly on your first attack, would that be active power or a match 3? And how would a random stun help with worthy? You would have a 1/3 chance it would not hit who you wanted (worthy or hawkeye). Vs bishop you would have a 2/3 chance of not hitting bishop.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder

    Spoiler alert:

    Trying to work around Worthy and/or Bishop's passives with another passive is, one would think, fertile design ground if that was a way the devs wanted to go about it.

    They have not, despite Bishop being in the game for 15 months. Longer by far than the time before Gambit's final nerf, and probably just about anyone's nerf who was somehow OP or otherwise ubiquitous on defensive teams.

    This is because an effective counter-passive would be even more broken really. Or maybe just hard to code/make work. Imagine that counter character.....would probably be just as OP on defense and lead to calls for "NERF OMEGA RED!' (or whoever) in short order.

    There are only two effective ways to deal with Bishop/Worthy:

    1. Leave as is for players to use as a tool vs stronger opponents (Worthy was useful this past week in the OMG nodes), and as a free shield in PVP.
    2. Nerf them. But you need to nerf BOTH of them because they just about the best counters to each other.....which I guess tells you about their relative "broken-ness" when there are 201 or so other characters.

    All right, dead horse beaten.

    Now.....have you used the Broken Brothers in SCL10? Do you think they are good tools, and would you miss them if they were nerfed?

  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/914358#Comment_914358

    I have used bishop very little in scl 10. Mine is lvl 282. That is far too small vs a 650 5*. Their match damage is way to high and he pops too fast. Vs lvl 450 5*'s he is a terror that has to be considered before fighting him, and he is always a solid pick vs them.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Balance is fine right now

    I remember when cap worthy was released. The usual comment was that he isnt worthy. Look at the character now lol.

    And the real problem with him is his combo with hawkeye. How many are asking for nerfing hawkeye?.

    And now bishop is a problem if you have just one heavy hitter. If you have 2 or all he will die sooner or later. How many players bought his shards? What they would do if he was nerfed?.

    Devise a team for fighting him instead of waiting for his nerf.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/914360#Comment_914360

    To be fair, Worthy was updated in the middle of his new release. At first he only made his CDs on yellow tiles; then they changed it so they appeared on any tile.

    That made a huge difference.

    Although it did take a little bit for players to figure out the Worthy/HE combo, which I still think was not envisioned by the devs when they designed him.

    I don't think they are nerfing the Stunner brothers, they will always be with us until the servers shut down.

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