sambrookjm said: Daredevil217 said: tiomono said: BSSM does not counter kitty though. He counters strike tiles which kitty cannot make. Just wanted to say I’ve never seen this argument made before, but it’s so true. You actually made me take pause and think. Further cements for me that if either character is a “problem” it’s Grocket (though I don’t think either are a problem). I've said this a number of times. Grocket's the main problem, but it's just shot into overdrive with Kitty's boosting his tiles. Change Grocket so he starts the match with a (fortified at LVL 5) tile that puts out a strike tile each turn, and the problem doesn't quite vanish, but it certainly becomes easier to manage.
Daredevil217 said: tiomono said: BSSM does not counter kitty though. He counters strike tiles which kitty cannot make. Just wanted to say I’ve never seen this argument made before, but it’s so true. You actually made me take pause and think. Further cements for me that if either character is a “problem” it’s Grocket (though I don’t think either are a problem).
tiomono said: BSSM does not counter kitty though. He counters strike tiles which kitty cannot make.
HoundofShadow said: I think it's quite difficult to get objective opinions because players have their own biases, as seen here. Cold, hard numbers could be considered objective. Identifying synergies among characters could be considered objective if it can be replicated by (any) players.Anyway, it seems everything has been said regarding nerfing and buffing of characters:1) Buff all bottom tier characters (79% vote)2) Nerf Bishop/Capworth/R4G (21%)3) Equalise 5* match damage and HP I wonder how the above compares to the last in-game survey result. February is the month of love. Maybe this community can get more love from the dev.
Spudgutter said: Daredevil217 said: Spudgutter said:@fightforthedream has it right, the game has a pretty decent situation of rock/paper/scissors going on right now (which is kind of unique for the life of this game) and all people keep doing is complain about how rock keeps beating scissors without acknowledging that paper even exists. I hear everything you are saying, even if I don't agree (most of which I don't). You keep saying "everyone wins" and alluding to prizes, which has already been explained so many times that it isn't about that. You're defining "a win" and telling everyone else they should be happy with their victory, but not acknowledging the large vocal "nerf Bishop" camp who don't gauge wins and losses by hitting 2k in sim.Rock beats down all the scissors in the tier above him and paper is the skip button (which you don't mind because you still get your rewards).All of these arguments were made with Gambit by the way. Didn't make him not broken, and didn't make him not get nerfed. I guess i just don't see the complaint. If you can still play, and a character helps other people play and do better, why nerf them? If it isn't about winning, what is it? Love of the game? That is our fundamental disagreement. If they released a 2* character today that was "broken" by your standards and definitions, that helped new players catapult to the end of the 3* tier faster, you would be against it? I would love it. I want people to have better stuff. I want more competition. I want more people to have fun with the game and stick around to keep the lights on. It took me 2200 days to get here, and i would rather someone be able to get here much faster than that.Basically, if i have to choose between a minor annoyance that has no bearing on my game(while simultaneously making it easier for those that came after me) and a nerf that will have hardly any impact on my game(while neutering someone helpful to the aforementioned group) i will choose the first option 10 times out of 10. Besides, what difference is it to you if there is a character that has very little impact on your game, while that character is helping many other people? You aren't concerned with them, you just oppose a "broken" character strictly on principle? If that is the case, then just say so and i will leave it alone.And for what it's worth, i wasnt a fan of gambits first or second nerfs, or any nerfs for that matter. It isn't even that i am against them in principle. When done correctly, plenty of games have fixed problematic characters. Card games, board games, video games, mobile games. Smokey joe said it best a couple pages back. My issue isn't with nerfs, its with nerfs in this game. These devs can't fix someone without making them useless (on average, anyways).
Daredevil217 said: Spudgutter said:@fightforthedream has it right, the game has a pretty decent situation of rock/paper/scissors going on right now (which is kind of unique for the life of this game) and all people keep doing is complain about how rock keeps beating scissors without acknowledging that paper even exists. I hear everything you are saying, even if I don't agree (most of which I don't). You keep saying "everyone wins" and alluding to prizes, which has already been explained so many times that it isn't about that. You're defining "a win" and telling everyone else they should be happy with their victory, but not acknowledging the large vocal "nerf Bishop" camp who don't gauge wins and losses by hitting 2k in sim.Rock beats down all the scissors in the tier above him and paper is the skip button (which you don't mind because you still get your rewards).All of these arguments were made with Gambit by the way. Didn't make him not broken, and didn't make him not get nerfed.
Spudgutter said:@fightforthedream has it right, the game has a pretty decent situation of rock/paper/scissors going on right now (which is kind of unique for the life of this game) and all people keep doing is complain about how rock keeps beating scissors without acknowledging that paper even exists.
Daredevil217 said: sambrookjm said: Daredevil217 said: tiomono said: BSSM does not counter kitty though. He counters strike tiles which kitty cannot make. Just wanted to say I’ve never seen this argument made before, but it’s so true. You actually made me take pause and think. Further cements for me that if either character is a “problem” it’s Grocket (though I don’t think either are a problem). I've said this a number of times. Grocket's the main problem, but it's just shot into overdrive with Kitty's boosting his tiles. Change Grocket so he starts the match with a (fortified at LVL 5) tile that puts out a strike tile each turn, and the problem doesn't quite vanish, but it certainly becomes easier to manage. Oh no. I’ve heard and stated myself Grocket is the worse of the two. I’ve never heard someone say BSSM isn’t a Kitty counter because Kitty doesn’t make strikes. He’s a Grocket counter.I think Grocket may be the MVP of this game. He’s not the best character- that’s Bishop. But in terms of longevity at the top and being on so many meta teams in both the top two tiers, I don’t think we’ve seen a character like that ever. Really amazing to think about.
Greenstrong said: Considering how many 4*s are in the game, and how many of them are deemed "trash", look into fixing them first. Emma, Talos, Namor, .... Look into the 4*s and rework their abilities to make them better contenders. I want to use them. 5*s are the end game and they should not be questioned in terms of their abilities. I'm not in 5*land yet but I know that some of them need work done. I'm all for buffs and actually I don't care for nerfs. I say leave Bishop and Hammer Cap (I don't have these characters champed and I don't use them) because they are our offensive play against 5* players. A buff should help with the balance, not a Nerf. Actually to be fair, they are actually more of a defence against 4 -5* transisitioners. True 5* players won't tend to see 4* players, the guys who we are battling with their high level nearlychamped/baby Champed Gritty or He/WCap teams are actually baby teams to true 5* players. There has been a lot of aggro thrown around but the tiers should own it - just like it is 5* players causing grief with Bishop to their peers it is 4* players doing the same in the 4* land.
Greenstrong said: Considering how many 4*s are in the game, and how many of them are deemed "trash", look into fixing them first. Emma, Talos, Namor, .... Look into the 4*s and rework their abilities to make them better contenders. I want to use them. 5*s are the end game and they should not be questioned in terms of their abilities. I'm not in 5*land yet but I know that some of them need work done. I'm all for buffs and actually I don't care for nerfs. I say leave Bishop and Hammer Cap (I don't have these characters champed and I don't use them) because they are our offensive play against 5* players. A buff should help with the balance, not a Nerf.
DAZ0273 said: Greenstrong said: Considering how many 4*s are in the game, and how many of them are deemed "trash", look into fixing them first. Emma, Talos, Namor, .... Look into the 4*s and rework their abilities to make them better contenders. I want to use them. 5*s are the end game and they should not be questioned in terms of their abilities. I'm not in 5*land yet but I know that some of them need work done. I'm all for buffs and actually I don't care for nerfs. I say leave Bishop and Hammer Cap (I don't have these characters champed and I don't use them) because they are our offensive play against 5* players. A buff should help with the balance, not a Nerf. Actually to be fair, they are actually more of a defence against 4 -5* transisitioners. True 5* players won't tend to see 4* players, the guys who we are battling with their high level nearlychamped/baby Champed Gritty or He/WCap teams are actually baby teams to true 5* players. There has been a lot of aggro thrown around but the tiers should own it - just like it is 5* players causing grief with Bishop to their peers it is 4* players doing the same in the 4* land.
HoundofShadow said: It's just a quick summary. It's not meant to represent all comments stated here. The point is with these different opinions, the devs has to prioritise because I doubt that they can buff all bottom tier characters in both 4* or 5* land, neither would they be able to nerf all suggested characters in a single attempt. It will probably take months or years make all changes to those names characters, and by then, the meta might have changed.For nerfing of characters, the choices are quite clear.For buffing of characters, the choices are quite general like buff bottom tier characters to make them usable, except for some asking for Banner or Wasp. That's why the result of the in-game survey will also influence who get priortised. It seems like the general consensus is buffing characters to counter meta team instead of nerfing them.
DAZ0273 said: @tiomono You couldn't have misconstrued my comment more if you had tried. I am sure you never intended to. ☺I am saying that the use of Bishop by players in the 4* tier is NOT against true 5* players, it is against 4* players who are in the 5* transisition. I am a 4* player, you as a 5* player are not going to find me too often in your game therefore your Gritty team is not a problem to me. It is the guys who have say non Champed but high level Gritty teams that Bishop in the 4* tier is getting used against. In comparison, the Bishops that you 5* players are seeing are accompanied by 5* Gritty teams etc. By 5* players.I am in no way saying that Bishop doesn't "punch up" in terms of his effect on match 3 for the 5* tier just that 4* players aren't punchin up any more than 5* players are punching down in most circumstances. This is all happening within the relevant star tier barring the odd break of MMR.
Greenstrong said: Idea: one valuable ability is to stun the opponent. Let's give a character the ability to UNSTUN an ally. Example: Emma Frost is an S level Telepath. She can go deep into the minds of her allies to UNSTUN them. Once awakened, the ally is filled with motivation to reclaim their lost time - so they fire a random ability (free of AP).Or, after UNSTUN, gain AP.
Greenstrong said: Idea: one valuable ability is to stun the opponent. Let's give a character the ability to UNSTUN an ally. Example: Emma Frost is an S level Telepath. She can go deep into the minds of her allies to UNSTUN them. Once awakened, the ally is filled with motivation to reclaim their lost time - so they fire a random ability (free of AP).Or, after UNSTUN, gain AP. I really like the idea of firing a random ability. Like how collosus does it. Or since she's supposed to be powerful, Emma can encourage the stunned character to fire a chosen ability instead. And maybe give her synergy with Cyclops, like how Iron fist and Luke Cage have synergy. Similar to R4G:For every X-Men on the team, X is increased by Y.