Captain Hammertime and his broken friends

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  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
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    DAZ0273 said:
    You guys do realise that the people with these already Champed Worthy Cap's and level 330+ Bishop's are not likely to actually be 4* players, right? The people causing you problems are clearly 5* players - your own peers! You can come crush my 1 cover Hammer Cap with Uber Apocalypse if you like though, lol!
    That's kinda the whole point.  Apocalypse would be a "solution" to this 4*/5* problem (like Bishop / Hammer cap are a "solution" to Rocket and Groot).  Devs never consider the consequences to their decisions and that's what causes problems.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,614 Chairperson of the Boards
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    dkffiv said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    You guys do realise that the people with these already Champed Worthy Cap's and level 330+ Bishop's are not likely to actually be 4* players, right? The people causing you problems are clearly 5* players - your own peers! You can come crush my 1 cover Hammer Cap with Uber Apocalypse if you like though, lol!
    That's kinda the whole point.  Apocalypse would be a "solution" to this 4*/5* problem (like Bishop / Hammer cap are a "solution" to Rocket and Groot).  Devs never consider the consequences to their decisions and that's what causes problems.
    So (and no snark at all is intended here) your solution to a 5* problem (4* players rarely have these characters champed in short order and certainly not at the levels that are causing issues) is to create a 5* that crushes the tier below? Isn't that what 5* do normally? Now...put that in the hands of the non 5* playerbase who presumably wont need too many covers to embark upon their crushing (otherwise what is the point of an easy quick fix for the 5* players? If it takes them too long to get enough covers for it to deal with Bishop/Worthy Cap it is no useful fix at all) and you have simply recreated Gritty in a new form to clog up SHIELD Sim and possibly every other PvP out there! If you want 5* only participation PvP then this is the way to go!
  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
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     Bishop stuns the character with the highest match damage. 



    Bishop stuns your whole team whilst any 5* characters that are with him crush you while you sit there and stare at you screen able to do nothing. i suggest you give it a try. if your current roster doesn't have any characters that will set him off then borrow someone else's phone and give it a whirl.  
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
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    There just needs to be more characters that do certain things for certain effects.

    Life a character is stunned  x character does this

    Or if there are x amount of strike or attack tiles this character does that.

    That way people could at least effectively counter and choice to fight whatever " strong" team is being run
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,069 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Worthy Cap is really becoming annoying. I definitely understand how the Bishop crew feels. I think Worthy Cap is actually much worse though, like Gambit levels of power. 

    Give me someone who steals AP passively when enemy countdowns expire please.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,913 Chairperson of the Boards
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    jp1 said:
    Worthy Cap is really becoming annoying. I definitely understand how the Bishop crew feels. I think Worthy Cap is actually much worse though, like Gambit levels of power. 

    Give me someone who steals AP passively when enemy countdowns expire please.
    So..... nerf??

    C’mon. Join the team. I have a jersey with your name and number on it.

    JP

    #1

    Looks good. 
  • Vins2
    Vins2 Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
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    This actually touches on a question I have been mulling over: 

    Should low level 450s champed 5* characters automatically be considered stronger than high level champed 4* characters?

    I understand why most would assume the answer is yes considering that the 5* tier has a big jump in match damage and overall health but what this gap ended up causing is the obsolescence of the lower tiers for players who had entered in the 5* realm. However, this isn't the case with the other tiers.

    The barrier for entry into covering a 450 5* should be reason enough to say yes.  It takes 6+ months of hoarding and you're still subject to RNG giving you the right distribution of colors on the right character.  
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,069 Chairperson of the Boards
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    jp1 said:
    Worthy Cap is really becoming annoying. I definitely understand how the Bishop crew feels. I think Worthy Cap is actually much worse though, like Gambit levels of power. 

    Give me someone who steals AP passively when enemy countdowns expire please.
    So..... nerf??

    C’mon. Join the team. I have a jersey with your name and number on it.

    JP

    #1

    Looks good. 
    Lol, as tempting as it is...I just can’t. With that said, I’ll quietly watch this one play out.
  • krakenoon
    krakenoon Posts: 355 Mover and Shaker
    edited January 2020
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    I haven't seen this mentioned, but Worthy Cap is probably one of the easiest characters to build in the current game. Fed by 3* Cap, which is fed by 2* Cap, which can be picked up a little more commonly than other 2*s. At least everyone can eventually get him rostered.

    I do think that ALL characters with a damage received mechanic should be balanced, it seems like whatever they do will take an interesting character and bury it in the fields of nerfdom.

    Honestly, i just wish I could progress to actually using 4* characters (even just a few) but between shards and HP throttling, I'll be stuck here in limbo with everyone else I see in the first rounds of PvP.
  • Taganov
    Taganov Posts: 279 Mover and Shaker
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    All of these characters with damage received mechanics are really only problems at the 5 star level, which is arguably the smallest fraction of players. And even then problem is in quotes. Strats are simple. I'm sure others have thought up way better already. Mirror is easiest. If you can't, then use some 4 star team with a good stun, since their damage is too low to trigger cap. If you're feeling terribly imaginative, bust out 3 star deadpool, scarlet witch, the appropriate boosts and whom ever.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,161 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Okoye + Profe$$or X + 2TU can get bishop done pretty regularly if there is a match-N in the first turn or two. I have a harder time with WCap for some reason; I need to come up with a good counter for that still.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Okoye + Profe$$or X + 2TU can get bishop done pretty regularly if there is a match-N in the first turn or two. I have a harder time with WCap for some reason; I need to come up with a good counter for that still.
    Bishop and gamora can beat this team too. Even unbuffed I can take those two vs a 5* and either bishop or worthy cap. If gamora or bishop are buffed it's even easier. 

    I still want a better counter for the busted jump in front mechanic. Stun them fast and forever doesnt really counter it specifically so much as it's very effective vs any enemy team.
  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Vins2 said:
    This actually touches on a question I have been mulling over: 

    Should low level 450s champed 5* characters automatically be considered stronger than high level champed 4* characters?

    I understand why most would assume the answer is yes considering that the 5* tier has a big jump in match damage and overall health but what this gap ended up causing is the obsolescence of the lower tiers for players who had entered in the 5* realm. However, this isn't the case with the other tiers.

    The barrier for entry into covering a 450 5* should be reason enough to say yes.  It takes 6+ months of hoarding and you're still subject to RNG giving you the right distribution of colors on the right character.  
    Just brings me back to the pre-5 archaic days when 5*s were introduced and we were told that a single cover of a 5* character would make them viable.  How the times have changed...
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,614 Chairperson of the Boards
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    pheregas said:
    Vins2 said:
    This actually touches on a question I have been mulling over: 

    Should low level 450s champed 5* characters automatically be considered stronger than high level champed 4* characters?

    I understand why most would assume the answer is yes considering that the 5* tier has a big jump in match damage and overall health but what this gap ended up causing is the obsolescence of the lower tiers for players who had entered in the 5* realm. However, this isn't the case with the other tiers.

    The barrier for entry into covering a 450 5* should be reason enough to say yes.  It takes 6+ months of hoarding and you're still subject to RNG giving you the right distribution of colors on the right character.  
    Just brings me back to the pre-5 archaic days when 5*s were introduced and we were told that a single cover of a 5* character would make them viable.  How the times have changed...

    Well it was true for OML so they took care of that with a lovely rebalance. I guess arguably it is still true for Kitty (although 2 yellow is better)...at least half the players in Shield Sim seem to think so every season judging by the fact they will team her with almost anything that moves regardless of whether they have better options.

    Anybody else worth having as a 1 cover 5*? Cable's green hits quite hard and can double as an aoe - possibly quite nice to have as a 3* player.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,293 Chairperson of the Boards
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    My habit for the last couple seasons has been running Worthy, CM, and Rocket in Simulator for the first 1700 points or so.

    It bombs more this season than some earlier ones - maybe I'm out a little early.  I need to wait for the poor saps without meta 5's to try to grab some wins.

    But I managed to take out a team today with 2 champed 5's and one high level 5 on my second turn, thanks to some lucky cascades.  3 turns are not unusual for my win with this team vs all champed 5s.

    Still seems broken to me.

    ------

    While shards have changed some of the calculus around hoarding for a group of 5's, the fact is that a newer player has no rea way to build up high level champ 4's like vets did.  This means your only real way into 5 land is hoarding and skipping/being selective with pulls.

    That amount of effort involved in getting 5's, to me, is a strong argument that there is a problem with having 4*s that counter your 5s when you simply match 3.

    I also have yet to run into (many, anyway) 4* players who are running these annoying characters and beating my team.  The vast majority of people I see are other 5* players.  Maybe that's the intent but it's not like I'm being impacted by 4* players punching up with them.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    DAZ0273 said:
    pheregas said:
    Vins2 said:
    This actually touches on a question I have been mulling over: 

    Should low level 450s champed 5* characters automatically be considered stronger than high level champed 4* characters?

    I understand why most would assume the answer is yes considering that the 5* tier has a big jump in match damage and overall health but what this gap ended up causing is the obsolescence of the lower tiers for players who had entered in the 5* realm. However, this isn't the case with the other tiers.

    The barrier for entry into covering a 450 5* should be reason enough to say yes.  It takes 6+ months of hoarding and you're still subject to RNG giving you the right distribution of colors on the right character.  
    Just brings me back to the pre-5 archaic days when 5*s were introduced and we were told that a single cover of a 5* character would make them viable.  How the times have changed...

    Well it was true for OML so they took care of that with a lovely rebalance. I guess arguably it is still true for Kitty (although 2 yellow is better)...at least half the players in Shield Sim seem to think so every season judging by the fact they will team her with almost anything that moves regardless of whether they have better options.

    Anybody else worth having as a 1 cover 5*? Cable's green hits quite hard and can double as an aoe - possibly quite nice to have as a 3* player.
    There are a small number of 5*s that can have value with just 1 or 3 of the right covers.  It's mostly true healers and ap/tile buffing shenanigans.

    Daredevil: any number of yellow covers is great

    Kitty: any number of yellow covers is useful.

    OML: still useful with at least 1 yellow, but definitely underpowered now

    Thor: any number of green covers can be a great battery.

    Okoye: useful with at least 1 black cover.  Very useful with at least 1 black and 1 yellow cover.

    SS: moderately useful with at least 1 blue cover.

    GED: useful with any number of blue covers.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,614 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I suppose Archangel's anti-airbourne counter might be useful specifically against Vulture just to bring him down.