Captain Hammertime and his broken friends

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  • AXP_isme
    AXP_isme Posts: 809 Critical Contributor
    dkffiv said:
    As a thought experiment I came up with a 3/4* character that creates a special tile at the start of the game, much like Gwenpool's green/gun tile.  When matched or destroyed, it would immediatly cast mega Whales, winning the match.

    I have a feeling that the people defending Bishop/Hammer Cap would claim this is a bold and innovative new character and that its perfectly fine to lose on turn 0 or 1 occassionally because the devs intended it to be that way and it gives 2* players a chance to beat a team of 550s.
    Why stop there? Reductio ad absurdum could easily carry that to a 1*. 
  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,991 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2019
    AXP_isme said:
    dkffiv said:
    As a thought experiment I came up with a 3/4* character that creates a special tile at the start of the game, much like Gwenpool's green/gun tile.  When matched or destroyed, it would immediatly cast mega Whales, winning the match.

    I have a feeling that the people defending Bishop/Hammer Cap would claim this is a bold and innovative new character and that its perfectly fine to lose on turn 0 or 1 occassionally because the devs intended it to be that way and it gives 2* players a chance to beat a team of 550s.
    Why stop there? Reductio ad absurdum could easily carry that to a 1*. 
    For the record, I am still miffed that they nerfed 1* Venom's Devour ability when they released Miles.  Some of the most fun I had playing the game was getting that ability to go off against 5* characters and Galactus, too, using two 1* characters, Venom and Spidey, usually with Silver Surfer to tank. It was a lot trickier back then to keep 6 web tiles on the board while trying to gather black AP but it was good times!  Just goes to show different people have different tastes when it comes to PvP and what they want from the game in general.

    Foot note: 1* Venom's Devour ability has been changed a few times over the course of the game. Initially it was possible to devour a whole enemy team, although it was quite difficult to pull off. Then it was reduced to insta-killing a single target. The conditions to pull of this feat required 6 web tiles to be on the board and 12 black AP.  
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2019
    AXP_isme said:
    dkffiv said:
    As a thought experiment I came up with a 3/4* character that creates a special tile at the start of the game, much like Gwenpool's green/gun tile.  When matched or destroyed, it would immediatly cast mega Whales, winning the match.

    I have a feeling that the people defending Bishop/Hammer Cap would claim this is a bold and innovative new character and that its perfectly fine to lose on turn 0 or 1 occassionally because the devs intended it to be that way and it gives 2* players a chance to beat a team of 550s.
    Why stop there? Reductio ad absurdum could easily carry that to a 1*. 
    A 1*/2* could die turn 1 and the ability wouldn't work.  3* is borderline, would need to be beefy.

    If we want absurdity in the opposite direction, you could have a 5* Apocalypse.  One of his abilities can be "Only the Strong Survive" - deal an additional 1000% damage for every tier higher he is (10x to 4*, 20x to 3*, 30x to 2*, 40x to 1*).  Would make crushing Juggernaut in PvE a ton of fun.  Give him Rescue level damage (~1k-3k nuke before tier difference multiplication) which would make him pretty **** against other 5*s but devastating against 4*s.  Could also make him take less from lower tiers as well.
  • ammenell
    ammenell Posts: 817 Critical Contributor
    you just want to see the world burn... 
  • AXP_isme
    AXP_isme Posts: 809 Critical Contributor
    Cap hammertime is another one of those characters with unintuitive scaling on his mechanics. It always bugged me that as levels went up the thresholds for triggering event went up too. 

    Thing is a good example. He’s only worth using for damage when boosted, his damage to AP ratio was left behind by newer 4*s looooooong ago. However when he’s boosted it’s much more difficult to get him to create protect tiles because the amount of damage that needs to be dealt to trigger his passive goes up and up and up. 

    For these types if defensive mechanic might it not make more sense to have the trigger at some absolute value rather than at some function of character level. That applies to all of them from 3* hulk and cap marvel through to Valkyrie, thing, bishop, hammertime...

    Surely keeping under-leveled versions of these characters is not the idea and yet if you could protect your Valkyrie by not having her tank anything you would be better off never pumping iso into her. 

    Seems this turned into a bigger post than I expected. TL;DR - trigger on damage passives scaling with level could be implemented in a more intuitive way. 
  • AXP_isme
    AXP_isme Posts: 809 Critical Contributor
    Yeah. It’s not a new complaint. But then neither is moaning about bishop or hammertime 😉
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,945 Chairperson of the Boards
    The good news is that you can pretty easily avoid leveling the JIF (Jump in Front) people by not bonusing them!  Dilution is a feature, not a bug.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,945 Chairperson of the Boards
    Today I took on a Hammercap/HE team in Taskmaster's PVP.  Used a mirror team, thought I had it worked out.  Was planning to chase green/yellow/black and not set off Broken.

    BUT:  I stupidly used my "boost all damage" boost and even matching off colors (not HE) triggered Cap.

    So dumb!

    And yes, this means that using boosts is a bad strategy vs Mr. Oversensitive.
  • Chrynos1989
    Chrynos1989 Posts: 364 Mover and Shaker
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    I've been away from the game for a minute (again lol) so pardon my ignorance, but is Captain Hammertime Juggs or Worthy Cap? 
     
    Because BRUH. 

    I jumped into a Watch & Learn match against Clint/Worthy Cap without reading Cap's powers, and I lie to you not, the match was over after I made literally ONE move. There was a HFH deal I think a month ago now that featured 3 Shuri covers for $19.99, and needing precisely that to finish Okoye, I dropped that $20 like it was hot. The anniversary double iso finally allowed me to champ her, so I go into this PVP a freshly champed Taskmaster and brand-spanking new Thorkoye, thinking I'm all that and a bag of chips with my choices of dips and a soda. 

    I select Cap and bring him to the front, thinking it's best to deal with the unknowns first. I make a match, and the board suddenly has 1-turn CDs popping up. They begin to resolve on the AIs turn, and I watch dumbfounded as Clint/Cap ability banners pop up on the screen one after another, and the red/blue ap reserves of the enemy team go up to ungodly levels. Realizing this isn't going to go well for me, I attempt to retreat. The button doesn't respond. I go, "Hmm, that's weird.....the game only doesn't let me do that when my entire team is about to die". My soul leaves my body as I watch my 50K health Thor just get pounded to oblivion, and I rage quit the app before I have to watch the rest of my team suffer the same fate. A great lesson in humility was learned this day. 
    Refers to Worthy Cap, if a certain amount of damage is done he jumps in front and creates 5 1 turn CD. In worst case, Barton ends up with 30 blue 30 red on his first turn and you are annihilated 
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,392 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2019
    Chrynos1989 said:

    Refers to Worthy Cap, if a certain amount of damage is done he jumps in front and creates 5 1 turn CD. In worst case, Barton ends up with 30 blue 30 red on his first turn and you are annihilated 
    I'm not in 5* MMR so I can't say for sure if it will work, but with Grocket/Gamora both boosted to L390 for me, I ran my freshly champed 4* Juggs (L275) as my 3rd (middle character).

    Thanks to the huge boost in strike tiles and Juggs passive, I was doing 10K damage to the front character from a single match (and Juggs tanks all but Black/Yellow even with the Guardian duo boosted) and 5K to the back characters. I was wiping out fully champed boosted 4* teams in the 380 range with 40K of health on turns 2 to 4 (depending on double matches/cascades).

    If you get a double match 3 on turn 1 you might wipe out Hammercap before the CD's even resolve. Even if they do, you have may still win before any of Hawkeye's CD's go off (assuming the AI uses the AP on his powers).

    KGB
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    This actually show that Devs learned NOTHING from Bishop (or they learnt the wrong lessons).

    After all the problems with Bishop, they just released ANOTHER character with a jump in front mechanic that AGAIN breaks the game. At this point, I just think they don't care about the health of this game anymore and they just one the fast money coming from these characters.

    Pretty sad, and pretty lame.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:
    You guys do realise that the people with these already Champed Worthy Cap's and level 330+ Bishop's are not likely to actually be 4* players, right? The people causing you problems are clearly 5* players - your own peers! You can come crush my 1 cover Hammer Cap with Uber Apocalypse if you like though, lol!
    That's kinda the whole point.  Apocalypse would be a "solution" to this 4*/5* problem (like Bishop / Hammer cap are a "solution" to Rocket and Groot).  Devs never consider the consequences to their decisions and that's what causes problems.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,527 Chairperson of the Boards
    dkffiv said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    You guys do realise that the people with these already Champed Worthy Cap's and level 330+ Bishop's are not likely to actually be 4* players, right? The people causing you problems are clearly 5* players - your own peers! You can come crush my 1 cover Hammer Cap with Uber Apocalypse if you like though, lol!
    That's kinda the whole point.  Apocalypse would be a "solution" to this 4*/5* problem (like Bishop / Hammer cap are a "solution" to Rocket and Groot).  Devs never consider the consequences to their decisions and that's what causes problems.
    So (and no snark at all is intended here) your solution to a 5* problem (4* players rarely have these characters champed in short order and certainly not at the levels that are causing issues) is to create a 5* that crushes the tier below? Isn't that what 5* do normally? Now...put that in the hands of the non 5* playerbase who presumably wont need too many covers to embark upon their crushing (otherwise what is the point of an easy quick fix for the 5* players? If it takes them too long to get enough covers for it to deal with Bishop/Worthy Cap it is no useful fix at all) and you have simply recreated Gritty in a new form to clog up SHIELD Sim and possibly every other PvP out there! If you want 5* only participation PvP then this is the way to go!
  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    fight4thedream said:

     Bishop stuns the character with the highest match damage. 



    Bishop stuns your whole team whilst any 5* characters that are with him crush you while you sit there and stare at you screen able to do nothing. i suggest you give it a try. if your current roster doesn't have any characters that will set him off then borrow someone else's phone and give it a whirl.  
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    There just needs to be more characters that do certain things for certain effects.

    Life a character is stunned  x character does this

    Or if there are x amount of strike or attack tiles this character does that.

    That way people could at least effectively counter and choice to fight whatever " strong" team is being run

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