Captain Hammertime and his broken friends

jp1

Worthy Cap is really becoming annoying. I definitely understand how the Bishop crew feels. I think Worthy Cap is actually much worse though, like Gambit levels of power. 

Give me someone who steals AP passively when enemy countdowns expire please.

Daredevil217

jp1 said:

Worthy Cap is really becoming annoying. I definitely understand how the Bishop crew feels. I think Worthy Cap is actually much worse though, like Gambit levels of power. 

Give me someone who steals AP passively when enemy countdowns expire please.

So..... nerf??

C’mon. Join the team. I have a jersey with your name and number on it.

JP

#1

Looks good. 

Vins2

fight4thedream said:

This actually touches on a question I have been mulling over: 

Should low level 450s champed 5* characters automatically be considered stronger than high level champed 4* characters?

I understand why most would assume the answer is yes considering that the 5* tier has a big jump in match damage and overall health but what this gap ended up causing is the obsolescence of the lower tiers for players who had entered in the 5* realm. However, this isn't the case with the other tiers.

The barrier for entry into covering a 450 5* should be reason enough to say yes.  It takes 6+ months of hoarding and you're still subject to RNG giving you the right distribution of colors on the right character.  

jp1

Daredevil217 said:

jp1 said:

Worthy Cap is really becoming annoying. I definitely understand how the Bishop crew feels. I think Worthy Cap is actually much worse though, like Gambit levels of power. 

Give me someone who steals AP passively when enemy countdowns expire please.

So..... nerf??

C’mon. Join the team. I have a jersey with your name and number on it.

JP

#1

Looks good. 

Lol, as tempting as it is...I just can’t. With that said, I’ll quietly watch this one play out.

krakenoon

I haven't seen this mentioned, but Worthy Cap is probably one of the easiest characters to build in the current game. Fed by 3* Cap, which is fed by 2* Cap, which can be picked up a little more commonly than other 2*s. At least everyone can eventually get him rostered.

I do think that ALL characters with a damage received mechanic should be balanced, it seems like whatever they do will take an interesting character and bury it in the fields of nerfdom.

Honestly, i just wish I could progress to actually using 4* characters (even just a few) but between shards and HP throttling, I'll be stuck here in limbo with everyone else I see in the first rounds of PvP.

Taganov

All of these characters with damage received mechanics are really only problems at the 5 star level, which is arguably the smallest fraction of players. And even then problem is in quotes. Strats are simple. I'm sure others have thought up way better already. Mirror is easiest. If you can't, then use some 4 star team with a good stun, since their damage is too low to trigger cap. If you're feeling terribly imaginative, bust out 3 star deadpool, scarlet witch, the appropriate boosts and whom ever.

Daredevil217

Taganov said:

All of these characters with damage received mechanics are really only problems at the 5 star level, which is arguably the smallest fraction of players. And even then problem is in quotes. Strats are simple. I'm sure others have thought up way better already. Mirror is easiest. If you can't, then use some 4 star team with a good stun, since their damage is too low to trigger cap. If you're feeling terribly imaginative, bust out 3 star deadpool, scarlet witch, the appropriate boosts and whom ever.

How deep into 5* land are you?

Mirror works for Cap most of the time (unless you get an “unlucky” cascade). But, I maintain that Cap isn’t actually broken. Even with Hawk, they are a super easy team to take down.  

Mirror doesn’t really work for Bishop though. Even if you avoid high-damage matches, their Bishop will trigger your Bishop resulting in dueling overclocks and your team being stunlocked. I really have not found a way around him.

Busting out 3* teams doesn’t work because match damage alone will kill you.

And I shouldn’t have to bench all my 5* just to deal with one problematic 4*.  Point blank. 

tiomono

Daredevil217 said:

Taganov said:

All of these characters with damage received mechanics are really only problems at the 5 star level, which is arguably the smallest fraction of players. And even then problem is in quotes. Strats are simple. I'm sure others have thought up way better already. Mirror is easiest. If you can't, then use some 4 star team with a good stun, since their damage is too low to trigger cap. If you're feeling terribly imaginative, bust out 3 star deadpool, scarlet witch, the appropriate boosts and whom ever.

How deep into 5* land are you?

Mirror works for Cap most of the time (unless you get an “unlucky” cascade). But, I maintain that Cap isn’t actually broken. Even with Hawk, they are a super easy team to take down.  

Mirror doesn’t really work for Bishop though. Even if you avoid high-damage matches, their Bishop will trigger your Bishop resulting in dueling overclocks and your team being stunlocked. I really have not found a way around him.

Busting out 3* teams doesn’t work because match damage alone will kill you.

And I shouldn’t have to bench all my 5* just to deal with one problematic 4*.  Point blank. 

I gave you a like because of the last paragraph. 

I often use bishop and 4* gamora to beat bishop teams. In pick 2 your first match will not trigger their bishop. If the enemy bishop is paired with a 5* they will likely trigger yours which will trigger theirs which triggers yours again. Then you just keep them stun locked with gamora while filling the board with purple specials. In a pick 3 adding kitty to bishop gamora is deadly. Imo much better than gritty bishop.

ThaRoadWarrior

Okoye + Profe$$or X + 2TU can get bishop done pretty regularly if there is a match-N in the first turn or two. I have a harder time with WCap for some reason; I need to come up with a good counter for that still.

tiomono

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Okoye + Profe$$or X + 2TU can get bishop done pretty regularly if there is a match-N in the first turn or two. I have a harder time with WCap for some reason; I need to come up with a good counter for that still.

Bishop and gamora can beat this team too. Even unbuffed I can take those two vs a 5* and either bishop or worthy cap. If gamora or bishop are buffed it's even easier. 

I still want a better counter for the busted jump in front mechanic. Stun them fast and forever doesnt really counter it specifically so much as it's very effective vs any enemy team.

pheregas

Vins2 said:

fight4thedream said:

This actually touches on a question I have been mulling over: 

Should low level 450s champed 5* characters automatically be considered stronger than high level champed 4* characters?

I understand why most would assume the answer is yes considering that the 5* tier has a big jump in match damage and overall health but what this gap ended up causing is the obsolescence of the lower tiers for players who had entered in the 5* realm. However, this isn't the case with the other tiers.

The barrier for entry into covering a 450 5* should be reason enough to say yes.  It takes 6+ months of hoarding and you're still subject to RNG giving you the right distribution of colors on the right character.  

Just brings me back to the pre-5 archaic days when 5*s were introduced and we were told that a single cover of a 5* character would make them viable.  How the times have changed...

DAZ0273

pheregas said:

Vins2 said:

fight4thedream said:

This actually touches on a question I have been mulling over: 

Should low level 450s champed 5* characters automatically be considered stronger than high level champed 4* characters?

I understand why most would assume the answer is yes considering that the 5* tier has a big jump in match damage and overall health but what this gap ended up causing is the obsolescence of the lower tiers for players who had entered in the 5* realm. However, this isn't the case with the other tiers.

The barrier for entry into covering a 450 5* should be reason enough to say yes.  It takes 6+ months of hoarding and you're still subject to RNG giving you the right distribution of colors on the right character.  

Just brings me back to the pre-5 archaic days when 5*s were introduced and we were told that a single cover of a 5* character would make them viable.  How the times have changed...

Well it was true for OML so they took care of that with a lovely rebalance. I guess arguably it is still true for Kitty (although 2 yellow is better)...at least half the players in Shield Sim seem to think so every season judging by the fact they will team her with almost anything that moves regardless of whether they have better options.

Anybody else worth having as a 1 cover 5*? Cable's green hits quite hard and can double as an aoe - possibly quite nice to have as a 3* player.

bluewolf

My habit for the last couple seasons has been running Worthy, CM, and Rocket in Simulator for the first 1700 points or so.

It bombs more this season than some earlier ones - maybe I'm out a little early.  I need to wait for the poor saps without meta 5's to try to grab some wins.

But I managed to take out a team today with 2 champed 5's and one high level 5 on my second turn, thanks to some lucky cascades.  3 turns are not unusual for my win with this team vs all champed 5s.

Still seems broken to me.

------

While shards have changed some of the calculus around hoarding for a group of 5's, the fact is that a newer player has no rea way to build up high level champ 4's like vets did.  This means your only real way into 5 land is hoarding and skipping/being selective with pulls.

That amount of effort involved in getting 5's, to me, is a strong argument that there is a problem with having 4*s that counter your 5s when you simply match 3.

I also have yet to run into (many, anyway) 4* players who are running these annoying characters and beating my team.  The vast majority of people I see are other 5* players.  Maybe that's the intent but it's not like I'm being impacted by 4* players punching up with them.

Vhailorx

DAZ0273 said:

pheregas said:

Vins2 said:

fight4thedream said:

This actually touches on a question I have been mulling over: 

Should low level 450s champed 5* characters automatically be considered stronger than high level champed 4* characters?

I understand why most would assume the answer is yes considering that the 5* tier has a big jump in match damage and overall health but what this gap ended up causing is the obsolescence of the lower tiers for players who had entered in the 5* realm. However, this isn't the case with the other tiers.

The barrier for entry into covering a 450 5* should be reason enough to say yes.  It takes 6+ months of hoarding and you're still subject to RNG giving you the right distribution of colors on the right character.  

Just brings me back to the pre-5 archaic days when 5*s were introduced and we were told that a single cover of a 5* character would make them viable.  How the times have changed...

Well it was true for OML so they took care of that with a lovely rebalance. I guess arguably it is still true for Kitty (although 2 yellow is better)...at least half the players in Shield Sim seem to think so every season judging by the fact they will team her with almost anything that moves regardless of whether they have better options.

Anybody else worth having as a 1 cover 5*? Cable's green hits quite hard and can double as an aoe - possibly quite nice to have as a 3* player.

There are a small number of 5*s that can have value with just 1 or 3 of the right covers.  It's mostly true healers and ap/tile buffing shenanigans.

Daredevil: any number of yellow covers is great

Kitty: any number of yellow covers is useful.

OML: still useful with at least 1 yellow, but definitely underpowered now

Thor: any number of green covers can be a great battery.

Okoye: useful with at least 1 black cover.  Very useful with at least 1 black and 1 yellow cover.

SS: moderately useful with at least 1 blue cover.

GED: useful with any number of blue covers.

DAZ0273

I suppose Archangel's anti-airbourne counter might be useful specifically against Vulture just to bring him down.

Vhailorx

DAZ0273 said:

I suppose Archangel's anti-airbourne counter might be useful specifically against Vulture just to bring him down.

I thought about adding him to the list.  But that is a very nice use.  Basically just useful against a handful of opponents, whereas true healing or extra AP/tile strength is always good. 

I also didn't include strange or Thanos because, while they are both very good, there are viable 3* analogues that are clearly a better option for 3* and 4* players.

ThaRoadWarrior

I used to hide behind my 0/0/1 Banner as a 3* player. If you could get him to transform, it was quite a meat shield at that time.

Vhailorx

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I used to hide behind my 0/0/1 Banner as a 3* player. If you could get him to transform, it was quite a meat shield at that time.

Yeah, you can also use Phoenix and Loki in this fashion.  But they are very limited use, being a bit hard to use and restrictive.  So I didn't put any of them on my list, focusing on the real true healers.

sinnerjfl

blankcanvas said:

I agree with @Daredevil217 that Worthy Cap isn't broken. I find him relatively easy to dispose of. In many ways, similar to Bishop too as i have good counters. But I must stress that I am in no way near a 5* player and am firmly playing in 4* with no intention of ever leaving. I do concede that both these characters in 5* games are an anomaly and really should be removed from PVP games rather than nerfing them both into oblivion.

I mean, if Bishop and Worthy Cap become broken because they're facing characters a tier above them that should basically trounce them, then their design are seriously flawed. Yes, 5*'s should be stronger than 4*'s, that's just how it always worked. At the very least, they shouldnt get stunlocked to hell because they dared make a match in one of their strong colors.  

These 2 bozzos are a problem because someone made a terrible decision when designing their passives. They are just awful to fight, they're everywhere and they're making the game worse. It's not possible to just limit them to their own special tier, just fix their passive to activate solely on power activation, not match damage. Or, raise the treshold by a lot, like 3000-4000 dmg or something more reasonable so 5*'s can actually make a match in peace.

Getting punished to move tiles in a match-3 game is completely stupid, that's what it boils down to.

T_REZ5000

BoyWonder1914 said:

I've been away from the game for a minute (again lol) so pardon my ignorance, but is Captain Hammertime Juggs or Worthy Cap? 
 
Because BRUH. 

I jumped into a Watch & Learn match against Clint/Worthy Cap without reading Cap's powers, and I lie to you not, the match was over after I made literally ONE move. There was a HFH deal I think a month ago now that featured 3 Shuri covers for $19.99, and needing precisely that to finish Okoye, I dropped that $20 like it was hot. The anniversary double iso finally allowed me to champ her, so I go into this PVP a freshly champed Taskmaster and brand-spanking new Thorkoye, thinking I'm all that and a bag of chips with my choices of dips and a soda. 

I select Cap and bring him to the front, thinking it's best to deal with the unknowns first. I make a match, and the board suddenly has 1-turn CDs popping up. They begin to resolve on the AIs turn, and I watch dumbfounded as Clint/Cap ability banners pop up on the screen one after another, and the red/blue ap reserves of the enemy team go up to ungodly levels. Realizing this isn't going to go well for me, I attempt to retreat. The button doesn't respond. I go, "Hmm, that's weird.....the game only doesn't let me do that when my entire team is about to die". My soul leaves my body as I watch my 50K health Thor just get pounded to oblivion, and I rage quit the app before I have to watch the rest of my team suffer the same fate. A great lesson in humility was learned this day. 

LOL, this is almost exactly what happened to me when I came back to the game like 2 months ago.  Gotta say I was quite surprised. 

 But nowhere near as surprised as I am seeing the same people who were outraged at Gambit generating 3 purple and 3 red per turn defend a pair of characters that can passively generate 30 red and 30 blue in one turn.