R192: Champion Rewards Updates

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Comments

  • PongiePongie Posts: 1,328 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    With this update, I lost 34-5* covers that I will never see again. Here is the breakdown and this is based of the standard that DEMI set for almost 2 years of feeders.  This wasn’t set by the player base, this was there Standard Operating Procedures. 


    Champ Rewards Update:

    Character- cover : shards (old system) { amount lost} 

    5* 

    Archangel-1  : 500 (6)  {4}

    Cable-2 : 500 (7) {4}

    Doom-1 : 150 + 600 (5) {2.5}

    Gambit-2 : 500 (7)  { 4} 

    Hela-1 (1) {even}

    Iceman-1 : 500 (6) {4}

    Kitty-1 : 100 (2) {.80}

    PX-1 : 500 (6) {4}

    Rescue-2 : 500 (7) {4}

    Storm-1 : 500 (6) {4}

    Banner-1 : 500 (6) {4}


    If you think this is acceptable to lose 34-5* covers then I really don’t know what to say.  

    I didn't miss out on as many 5* covers as you but what pains me are those that will fall short of completing (Hela). Any 5* already championed, the lost of additional champion levels doesn't really matter. There are some that would take more covers/levels before completing the 5* too (was looking forward to championing cable and rescue). It's baffling how having lower champion levels actually works out better here. In hindsight, we needed to save all the covers of 4* champions without feeders instead of applying them as champion levels.
  • whitecat31whitecat31 Posts: 569 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2019
    "In addition you will gain 100 shards, for each 250 shard milestone you passed."

    Who ever thought that was a good idea, did not consider the ramifications. 
    1. It tells players it is punitive to champion a 4 star until it is a feeder. 
    2. It says you don't care about your loyal players, who are used to getting the rewards they missed out on.
    3. It also fundamentally violated the promise given to us in November of 2017  https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/749081#Comment_749081

    This should have said, 
    "In addition you will gain all the shard milestones you missed out on"
  • WEBGASWEBGAS Posts: 474 Mover and Shaker
    Never in my wildest dreams I could have imagined to be fooled like this, once again.
    Beware D3, you created al lot of angry and disillusioned players  >:)
  • whitecat31whitecat31 Posts: 569 Critical Contributor
    bluewolf said:
    granne said:
    Momo988 said:
    What’s clear is that the new feeders were treated the same as existing feeders. If that’s as intended, then it’s not what was communicated. If it’s a mistake, it would be helpful to know if it’s being fixed. Whether it is a or b would be a helpful clarification from The team. 
    Exactly. I have no problem with the idea of not receiving shards if you've already received covers (especially since some of us will have received LTs as well as covers). It's the 20% of expected shards on new feeders that bothers me. If it was intended, it might just be the push I need to spend my time on something else.
    Anthony on Discord said in no uncertain terms that the rewards we received are the intended rewards.

    Everyone needs to fully understand this and not hope for some update or fix. This is it.
    Would it be safe to say that Anthony does not think the customer is always right?
    Clearly canceling VIP means nothing. What if the customers said "buy group boycott"?
  • RazuhluiRazuhlui Posts: 34 Just Dropped In
    IceIX said:

    The Champion Reward updates will update rewards for 2-Stars, 3-Stars, and 4-Stars, update the characters that are rewarded for 3-Stars and 4-Stars, and will give you retroactive rewards if you have already earned the Champion Rewards. That’s a lot to chew through, so let’s dive in!

    And again, that's not how the update was rolled out.
    Where are my maxed Champion 2*  and 3*rewards.
  • KGBKGB Posts: 1,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    DarthDeVo said:


    All weekend I told anyone in any of my alliance families: pull as many tokens as you can now. Get as many rewards as you can now, and then get the retroactive rewards on top when the update comes. That's what I'm doing. 

    Why? 

    Because that's the precedent that had been set in the past. Why should we expect much different otherwise? 

    Thousands (probably tens of thousands across all our alliances) of Standards, Elites, Heroic, and Latest tokens were pulled.


    I think this is the exact reason why they did what they did. An incredible number of players attempting to double dip rewards across all tiers (3, 4 and 5). On top of that it's at a lot more champion reward spots since shards replaced multiple rewards instead of just a single reward (ie 3 shard award slots in 4* champ rewards to get 1 cover instead of just a single award for a cover at 300, 320 etc).

    Clearly they should have given more than 12 hrs notice and a better breakdown but it's understandable they didn't want to shower vets with tons of extra resources that other newer players weren't going to be getting.

    KGB
  • jp1jp1 Posts: 705 Critical Contributor
    Who cares what someone else receives? Does it change your enjoyment of the game?

    If we want to start about what’s fair, let’s post up our hours played and monetary investments and we can see who deserves what. The socialist approach won’t keep businesses running unfortunately.
  • KhanwulfKhanwulf Posts: 103 Tile Toppler
    edited December 2019
    So. 10 CP on the 3* reward track is half of a 4/5* pull but only translates to 100 shards? Foul!

    You want to convert everything to shards? Ok: ((600 shards *15%) + (400 shards * 85%))/2 = (90 + 340)/2 =  215 shards. So you have net reduced 3* rewards by 115 shards.

    Thanks! /s

    Personally I'd much rather have the CP as that's the only way (still) to get 5* pulls. Reducing CP rewards means progression will be even slower going to 5*-land.

    Similarly, on the 4* track you take a cover and break it apart into 600 shards, but in a few places those shards ALSO replace CP rewards. Foul!

    You are reducing ISO rewards through this as well. ISO that the game is starved of.

    If you want to spread out rewards (shards), do not reduce the rest of the net rewards. 

    --Khanwulf

    Edit: IceX makes the inflammatory statement that the "flexibility of the rewards, the power of that had to come from *somewhere*." No. No it doesn't. These are numbers in a game where advancement is already very slow. With saved covers the marginal utility of shards is reduced--it's not like these champ level shards are going to our current favorite, only the one set per hero.

    It would take very little effort to spread the missing rewards throughout the chart, making it net equal but with the tiny utility of earlier shards.

    Distinctly unimpressed.
  • KGBKGB Posts: 1,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    KGB said:
    DarthDeVo said:


    All weekend I told anyone in any of my alliance families: pull as many tokens as you can now. Get as many rewards as you can now, and then get the retroactive rewards on top when the update comes. That's what I'm doing. 

    Why? 

    Because that's the precedent that had been set in the past. Why should we expect much different otherwise? 

    Thousands (probably tens of thousands across all our alliances) of Standards, Elites, Heroic, and Latest tokens were pulled.


    I think this is the exact reason why they did what they did. An incredible number of players attempting to double dip rewards across all tiers (3, 4 and 5). On top of that it's at a lot more champion reward spots since shards replaced multiple rewards instead of just a single reward (ie 3 shard award slots in 4* champ rewards to get 1 cover instead of just a single award for a cover at 300, 320 etc).

    Clearly they should have given more than 12 hrs notice and a better breakdown but it's understandable they didn't want to shower vets with tons of extra resources that other newer players weren't going to be getting.

    KGB
    KGB,
    The veterans feel they "earned" these rewards based on dozens upon dozens of historical precedents.
    Why do you reinforce a message that veterans did not "earn" these rewards that you called double dips?  

    What exactly do you have against veterans, that you don't think they should get "paid" for their time served?
     
    The veterans have loved this game, and trusted this game to recruit constantly for this game.
    They showed their friends this game. 
    They introduced their friends to the LINE and Discord communities. 
    Many have hundreds if not thousands of Facebook friends because of this game and have introduced this game to hundreds of thousands of people.





    I have nothing against veterans at all.

    As I stated in the other big post, I fully 100% believe you should get ALL those 5* shards/covers.

    But I also believe you (me, everyone) should have to give back all the double dip rewards. So for a Max 370,  you should have to give back 6 LTs and 60 cp. Otherwise, you earned MORE than what I would for doing the exact same thing (max champing a 4*).

    Hence I suggested D3 allow a 1 time customer service request (as they did when they ended cover swaps and allowed dup 5* to be broken into saved covers) from each player for anything they want addressed and then you agree to give back the double dip rewards in return for the 5* shards (or 4* or 3* etc whatever you want to address).

    That's fair to the entire player base. Everyone. You, me (a long time player with a fully champed 4* roster player in the 280-300 range), newer players in the 3* and below range and so on. That's all I am asking for, fairness across the board (note, I am fine with the extra 100 shard bonus for vets per 20 levels as a vet bonus).

    KGB

  • shadow2999shadow2999 Posts: 13 Just Dropped In
    KGB,
    No that isnt fair in any sense of the word. 

    1.  Its impractical, and an undue burden to the CS team as well as the individual players for having to go through and correctly identify everything in their roster.  Too error prone.
    2.  As stated, the precident was set for years.  Anytime someone comes into a game later, they are likely have missed items along the way.  Look at Kickstarters.  They often get rewards that are not available post launch, but they get them because they were there at the beginning and contributed early (and with cash).
    3.  I get that new players might feel bad about it now, but the inevietable next wave of feeder updates or reward updates in general, they would then get their opportunity to "double" dip though that isnt really a fair description.  The company changes the rules and structure of their rewards its only fair to give said rewards IN FULL to those who would have earned them. 

    While i respect that you disagree, I do believe its wrong and the current system is a complete reversal on how the company handled things in the past, how they outlined this update and a complete failure to honest communication with their customers.  They need to fix this soon, not two or three months from now, and they know its the right thing to do, I just wonder if they will actually do it.


  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    There was a solution to the flood of 5* covers, and it was to assign 5* feeders to newish-release 4*s that (relatively) nobody has yet at high levels. That even happened for some, by tying Hela to Magik etc. It was a choice to make them older 4*s and then to try and nerf the payout on top of it. Also tying desirable 5s to openly undesirable 4s (kitty to Frost) we've even seen done before, with Psylocke->Peggy the last time 3* champ rewards got an update. There are no shortage of 4* characters in the game, there'll certainly be 1 or 2 more before the hubub of all this dies down even.

    Doing that is the most fair option I can think of to make it so the answer to succeeding in this game isn't "go back in time to 2015 and play for 3hrs a day."
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