Next Season PvP

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  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daiches said:
    broll said:

    Also all the skill, strategy, and decision making in the world aren't gonna help you if you can't play that the 5 optimal times for PvE.  Tapping IMO wasn't removed during the first nerf of it to allow it to be an option for people in that spot.  
    Tapping doesn't help at all if you can't play around the end times..
    Tapping is done to get greater than optimal scores by tapping one node for hours and finishing with a perfect grind on the other nodes. If you can't do the last, you will need several hours extra to break even on that loss.. 
    And that point you're better off just 7ckearing and accepting t50/t100
    See: Ultimately the real problem in all of this is the devs have no idea how to strike that balance or fix any of these problems...

    I think their intent was for it to be an option, but like most of what they do it wasn't well thought out.  But I agree with the spirit of their should be an option (or they could just fix the whole time slice problem)
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daiches said:
    broll said:

    Also all the skill, strategy, and decision making in the world aren't gonna help you if you can't play that the 5 optimal times for PvE.  Tapping IMO wasn't removed during the first nerf of it to allow it to be an option for people in that spot.  
    Tapping doesn't help at all if you can't play around the end times..
    Tapping is done to get greater than optimal scores by tapping one node for hours and finishing with a perfect grind on the other nodes. If you can't do the last, you will need several hours extra to break even on that loss.. 
    And that point you're better off just 7ckearing and accepting t50/t100
    I agree with @Daiches here, if you have time to tap a single node for hours, you have time to play optimal. I don't think the devs want people to tap nodes for hours on end. A few times at the end because you started a little too soon I can see. But for hours and hours? I just can't see the devs wanting that for any reason. It's not good for the health of the player or the game.
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    The win based system is not the problem. It was the number of wins needed that was. It suddenly became 3 x the effort and time for the same prizes. 

    Considering they've now stopped the one benefit of the win system (dropping cl and picking up some easy cp) I think you might see it make a comeback.personally I think I'll call it a day at that point and stop playing altogether and most of the vets in my alliance have said the same or similar. I'm not interested in investing more time than I already do as my life is simply to busy.
  • GibbletsGrabber
    GibbletsGrabber Posts: 25 Just Dropped In
    I can’t believe this discussion is still going on. 

    If if you like the game you shouldn’t care either way. Kinda like win based system but no 15CP progression and way too many wins needed. 

    But points based system is a lot faster to get 900 or 1200 if that’s what you want. 

    No change in my tactics if you are a top10 player. You shield, find opponents and you set your alarms. 

    Not many like it, not many play it, too many complain about it. 

    Problem is psychological. When you lose points you feel robbed and violated. 
    But it’s a game. Hit back or not, just remember it’s nothing personal either way. 
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    The solution seems pretty simple. Checkpoints. 

    Underneath each major prize is a score checkpoint that you cannot fall beneath. People who wanna play for scores can. People interEstes in. Just progression can without having to spend 3x the time playing
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    mexus said:
    OneLastGambit said:
    The solution seems pretty simple. Checkpoints. 

    Underneath each major prize is a score checkpoint that you cannot fall beneath. People who wanna play for scores can. People interEstes in. Just progression can without having to spend 3x the time playing
    I'm up for this. :) It's a good compromise between being able to fall back - hard, and not being able to fall back at all.
    To be honest it's such an obvious and simple solution. That id be shocked if someone hadn't said it already
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    mexus said:
    acescracked said:
    mexus said:
    OneLastGambit said:
    The solution seems pretty simple. Checkpoints. 

    Underneath each major prize is a score checkpoint that you cannot fall beneath. People who wanna play for scores can. People interEstes in. Just progression can without having to spend 3x the time playing
    I'm up for this. :) It's a good compromise between being able to fall back - hard, and not being able to fall back at all.
    Why not try giving the game sometime so you can grow your roster and learn the game? You'll be surprised that you'll be able to hit 900 points just fine.

    I'm sure I'm off base here but it seems this is how it goes.."install game, play first 60 days, can't hit 1200, PvP is broken, give me fail proof wins based PvP."

    I can't see how that comment is relevant to my comment. Maybe you mean to direct the comment to OneLastGambit who suggested the checkpoints to begin with?

    However I am nearly day 400 (edit; noticed I'm at day 440) with 30+ 4* champs and I don't have any interest to "learn" the game as prescribed in Battle Chat Rooms. This I've made clear quite a few times. I just want my progress to now go down because I don't wanna play on a schedule.

    I'd welcome checkpoints so that you can't fall too far back, I'd welcome the return of win-based progression. I can usually hit 900 (gonna do it for the Squirrel Girl tournament since I need my 13;th Nick Fury cover) but it's more distressing than hitting 40 wins and I know that  from experience since I've tried them both and 40 wins over 3 days fits me and the way I wanna play the game better so why shouldn't I promote for this? :)
    30 champed 4* at 440 days?!?  Heck I didn't have a 270
    4* (you know before champing) at day 440.  You are way above the trend.  Since you have said you do not want to try battle chats or learning any other way then the forums, which for me as a terrible user experience, then I would suggest you try slice 1/3/4 for PVP.  I know you will say this is a secret code and whatever.  Simple fact is Slice 1/3/4 have more points than 2/5 therefore at times instead of fighting a 38 point match all the time you may get a 60 or 70 match.  Just a suggestion. Take it or leave it. 
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vaulting worked.  It was right time with some of the best 4* this game has seen. That was a major major impact. 
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2017
    So another thing I have been thinking about and wanted to bring up.  I have seen many people complain about the points given for a match. I think others have explained it, but I want to make sure. 

    If you are at 800 and shield, get 1 beatable match for 50 points from player ABC and another match for 50 points from player XYZ. Let's say you are on a 8 hour shield.  Once you are ready to make your 900 run you get ready. You do the first match from player ABC and it is worth 60.  Wooo.  This means the ABC shielded at some point to protect his score.  Next match you play XYZ and they are worth 10. Well
    damn. Why is that. All you wanted is to hit 900 and free fall back.  Well......player XYZ is YOU. They play just like you. They made what they wanted and walked away.  This is not the point PVP system fault. This is the Demi/D3 server side fault.  This has always been like this every since I started to play PVP. This in fact had been a complaint for a long long time.  I personally don't think that the servers at Demi/D3 can handle true live updates of this. 

    Example, I can do a shield hop, get hit in PVP and re shield.  I have had hits come in AFTER I shielded. Heck at times it takes up to 5 minutes before I know who hit me.  It is all server lag and always has been here. If you play PVE on a high end, and now with animations off, if you watch the point while doing your end grind, you will see the sever not keeping up.  Meaning that you do a clear and it says 300 and you get 140, which the 140 is right. As much as we want Live and Now with this game, we are all held back by whatever the server side is.  For those who have not been around, please look back at the massive outage during the first boss events.  Some hampsters died, vets will get that line. This was a major issue during those events, in fact complete blackout.  

    The best suggestion I can give is this.  Keep 1 node open. Before you break shield, like 10 mins before, use your "open" node and dump your cache which would be 5-8 skips depending. Check current Qs to see if there is something better for you to hit. After you dump your cache this will show you Live and fresh teams.  I hope this makes sense.  Again if people want help, a lot of Vets will. It is a lot better on Line than here due to real time information, just like you want for your targeted team points.  Hope this helps. 
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    The rockett said:
    So another thing I have been thinking about and wanted to bring up.  I have seen many people complain about the points given for a match. I think others have explained it, but I want to make sure. 

    If you are at 800 and shield, get 1 beatable match for 50 points from player ABC and another match for 50 points from player XYZ. Let's say you are on a 8 hour shield.  Once you are ready to make your 900 run you get ready. You do the first match from player ABC and it is worth 60.  Wooo.  This means the ABC shielded at some point to protect his score.  Next match you play XYZ and they are worth 10. Well
    damn. Why is that. All you wanted is to hit 900 and free fall back.  Well......player XYZ is YOU. They play just like you. They made what they wanted and walked away.  This is not the point PVP system fault. This is the Demi/D3 server side fault.  This has always been like this every since I started to play PVP. This in fact had been a complaint for a long long time.  I personally don't think that the servers at Demi/D3 can handle true live updates of this. 

    Example, I can do a shield hop, get hit in PVP and re shield.  I have had hits come in AFTER I shielded. Heck at times it takes up to 5 minutes before I know who hit me.  It is all server lag and always has been here.   I feel you play PVE on a high end, and now with animations off, if you watch the point while doing your end grind, you will see the sever not keeping up.  Meaning that you do a clear and it says 300 and you get 140, which the 140 is right. As much as we want Live and Now with this game, we are all held back by whatever the server side is.  For those who have not been around, please look back at the massive outage during the first boss events.  Some hampsters died, vets will get that line. This was a major issue during those events, i fact complete blackout.  

    The best suggestion I can give is this.  Keep 1 node open. Before you break shield, like 10 mins before, use your "open" node and dump your cache which would be 5-8 skips depending. Check current Qs to see if there is something better for you to hit. After you dump your cache this will show you Live and fresh teams.  I hope this makes sense.  Again if people want help, a lot of Vets will. It is a lot better on Line than here due to real time information, just like you want for your targeted team points.  Hope this helps. 


    But rockett, don't you know?
    There ARE no 50 point queues, it's IMPOSSIBLE to find anything worth more than 30 points!

  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bowgentle said:
    The rockett said:
    So another thing I have been thinking about and wanted to bring up.  I have seen many people complain about the points given for a match. I think others have explained it, but I want to make sure. 

    If you are at 800 and shield, get 1 beatable match for 50 points from player ABC and another match for 50 points from player XYZ. Let's say you are on a 8 hour shield.  Once you are ready to make your 900 run you get ready. You do the first match from player ABC and it is worth 60.  Wooo.  This means the ABC shielded at some point to protect his score.  Next match you play XYZ and they are worth 10. Well
    damn. Why is that. All you wanted is to hit 900 and free fall back.  Well......player XYZ is YOU. They play just like you. They made what they wanted and walked away.  This is not the point PVP system fault. This is the Demi/D3 server side fault.  This has always been like this every since I started to play PVP. This in fact had been a complaint for a long long time.  I personally don't think that the servers at Demi/D3 can handle true live updates of this. 

    Example, I can do a shield hop, get hit in PVP and re shield.  I have had hits come in AFTER I shielded. Heck at times it takes up to 5 minutes before I know who hit me.  It is all server lag and always has been here.   I feel you play PVE on a high end, and now with animations off, if you watch the point while doing your end grind, you will see the sever not keeping up.  Meaning that you do a clear and it says 300 and you get 140, which the 140 is right. As much as we want Live and Now with this game, we are all held back by whatever the server side is.  For those who have not been around, please look back at the massive outage during the first boss events.  Some hampsters died, vets will get that line. This was a major issue during those events, i fact complete blackout.  

    The best suggestion I can give is this.  Keep 1 node open. Before you break shield, like 10 mins before, use your "open" node and dump your cache which would be 5-8 skips depending. Check current Qs to see if there is something better for you to hit. After you dump your cache this will show you Live and fresh teams.  I hope this makes sense.  Again if people want help, a lot of Vets will. It is a lot better on Line than here due to real time information, just like you want for your targeted team points.  Hope this helps. 


    But rockett, don't you know?
    There ARE no 50 point queues, it's IMPOSSIBLE to find anything worth more than 30 points!

    Snark all you want.  I'm in the 600+ days and recently crossed the 5* threashold.  For the 600+ days before I had 2 5* champs I think I saw 60 or more points 4 times total in all those days playing every PvP.  50 was pretty rare also, usually the high point was 38-48.  Now that I have 2 5*s I see 70s and 75s all the time.  That fact that it's possible for you is because you're practically playing a different game then the people it's impossible for.  This is ultimately why PvP is so broken, there's so much variability in experience based on roster and changing SCLs does nothing to change that.  Super broken.
  • shartattack
    shartattack Posts: 370 Mover and Shaker
    broll said:
    Bowgentle said:

    Snark all you want.  I'm in the 600+ days and recently crossed the 5* threashold.  For the 600+ days before I had 2 5* champs I think I saw 60 or more points 4 times total in all those days playing every PvP.  50 was pretty rare also, usually the high point was 38-48.  Now that I have 2 5*s I see 70s and 75s all the time.  That fact that it's possible for you is because you're practically playing a different game then the people it's impossible for.  This is ultimately why PvP is so broken, there's so much variability in experience based on roster and changing SCLs does nothing to change that.  Super broken.
    not seeing those huge targets is a double edged sword for a 4* player.  Those huge targets are generally 5* players.  MMR hides them from you as a 4, but also hides you from them.  That is why 4* players can float higher than most 5* rosters.  If 5* players could target 3 or 4* rosters before breaking MMR, the forums would erupt with complaints.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    shartattack said:
    broll said:
    Bowgentle said:

    Snark all you want.  I'm in the 600+ days and recently crossed the 5* threashold.  For the 600+ days before I had 2 5* champs I think I saw 60 or more points 4 times total in all those days playing every PvP.  50 was pretty rare also, usually the high point was 38-48.  Now that I have 2 5*s I see 70s and 75s all the time.  That fact that it's possible for you is because you're practically playing a different game then the people it's impossible for.  This is ultimately why PvP is so broken, there's so much variability in experience based on roster and changing SCLs does nothing to change that.  Super broken.
    not seeing those huge targets is a double edged sword for a 4* player.  Those huge targets are generally 5* players.  MMR hides them from you as a 4, but also hides you from them.  That is why 4* players can float higher than most 5* rosters.  If 5* players could target 3 or 4* rosters before breaking MMR, the forums would erupt with complaints.
    I recognize that.  Yet vets will continue to preach don't hit targets lower than 40 or 50 and talk about 75s when talking to people no where near 5*.  It's probably not intentional, but they don't know, remember, and/or care how different playing down there is and then get snarky about it.  It rubs me the wrong way and then I go and get snarky and we have blow up threads like this and others.
  • Daiches
    Daiches Posts: 1,252 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll said:
    shartattack said:
    broll said:
    Bowgentle said:

    Snark all you want.  I'm in the 600+ days and recently crossed the 5* threashold.  For the 600+ days before I had 2 5* champs I think I saw 60 or more points 4 times total in all those days playing every PvP.  50 was pretty rare also, usually the high point was 38-48.  Now that I have 2 5*s I see 70s and 75s all the time.  That fact that it's possible for you is because you're practically playing a different game then the people it's impossible for.  This is ultimately why PvP is so broken, there's so much variability in experience based on roster and changing SCLs does nothing to change that.  Super broken.
    not seeing those huge targets is a double edged sword for a 4* player.  Those huge targets are generally 5* players.  MMR hides them from you as a 4, but also hides you from them.  That is why 4* players can float higher than most 5* rosters.  If 5* players could target 3 or 4* rosters before breaking MMR, the forums would erupt with complaints.
    I recognize that.  Yet vets will continue to preach don't hit targets lower than 40 or 50 and talk about 75s when talking to people no where near 5*.  It's probably not intentional, but they don't know, remember, and/or care how different playing down there is and then get snarky about it.  It rubs me the wrong way and then I go and get snarky and we have blow up threads like this and others.
    I found plenty of 75s as 3 star and as 4star roster. But if you don't know when to look it's much harder to find them, since people that are worth 75 tend to shield hop and thus only be able to be Qd for a short span of time. Now to find them you could burn ISO like mad, or you could talk to friends. 
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    The rockett said:
    Vaulting worked.  It was right time with some of the best 4* this game has seen. That was a major major impact. 
    Wait a minute here... 
    That statement + your passionate crusade to restore points based PVP...

    Fightmaster, is that you???

    just kidding  :D
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bowgentle said:
    The rockett said:
    So another thing I have been thinking about and wanted to bring up.  I have seen many people complain about the points given for a match. I think others have explained it, but I want to make sure. 

    If you are at 800 and shield, get 1 beatable match for 50 points from player ABC and another match for 50 points from player XYZ. Let's say you are on a 8 hour shield.  Once you are ready to make your 900 run you get ready. You do the first match from player ABC and it is worth 60.  Wooo.  This means the ABC shielded at some point to protect his score.  Next match you play XYZ and they are worth 10. Well
    damn. Why is that. All you wanted is to hit 900 and free fall back.  Well......player XYZ is YOU. They play just like you. They made what they wanted and walked away.  This is not the point PVP system fault. This is the Demi/D3 server side fault.  This has always been like this every since I started to play PVP. This in fact had been a complaint for a long long time.  I personally don't think that the servers at Demi/D3 can handle true live updates of this. 

    Example, I can do a shield hop, get hit in PVP and re shield.  I have had hits come in AFTER I shielded. Heck at times it takes up to 5 minutes before I know who hit me.  It is all server lag and always has been here.   I feel you play PVE on a high end, and now with animations off, if you watch the point while doing your end grind, you will see the sever not keeping up.  Meaning that you do a clear and it says 300 and you get 140, which the 140 is right. As much as we want Live and Now with this game, we are all held back by whatever the server side is.  For those who have not been around, please look back at the massive outage during the first boss events.  Some hampsters died, vets will get that line. This was a major issue during those events, i fact complete blackout.  

    The best suggestion I can give is this.  Keep 1 node open. Before you break shield, like 10 mins before, use your "open" node and dump your cache which would be 5-8 skips depending. Check current Qs to see if there is something better for you to hit. After you dump your cache this will show you Live and fresh teams.  I hope this makes sense.  Again if people want help, a lot of Vets will. It is a lot better on Line than here due to real time information, just like you want for your targeted team points.  Hope this helps. 


    But rockett, don't you know?
    There ARE no 50 point queues, it's IMPOSSIBLE to find anything worth more than 30 points!


    If you guys don't know Bow by now, and I do he is a good friend, he was joking around.  That's it. 

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