While it's true those are hidden, in PVE you can actually not follow the ideal clear schedule and still get max progression, as long as you have the essentials. Just do all missions 6 times and maybe a bit of tapping to (the 20-50 points kind of) to reach the end.Biggest problem i have is that pvp have a fake progression that's still competitive. PVE got the progression that's not competitive and the placement that is. PVP just have two competitive tables. If it's really "intented" to be fully competitive, they should scrap the PVP progression and put it in the placement. Then we'd see how many people really are okay with full competition if only the top 50 or something like that have CP.
Daredevil217 said: It’s clear the developers are trying to eliminate all the extra stuff outside what was intended strategy (similar to tapping in PVE), but the backlash from those who benefitted was too strong. Hopefully there is a better solution down the pipeline.
Ruinate said: Guess who else is now part of that 1% and has DD Thanos.These aren't rules. They are tips. Just like Aes said. The game does not need to provide all strategies and tips for you. No game does this. Seek out the cowdsourced information if you're interested enough or develop your own strategies. That's part of gaming. Shall I lay out all the possible outcomes before we play a game of tic tac toe?
shartattack said:Do you think that anyone investing the time should be able to earn the top progression reward in pvp?
Spudgutter said: Yes, and not everyone is aware or able to take advantage of the tips, rules, suggestions or whatever you want to call them semantically. And just a quick search of your comments and you gave some general pvp tips in another thread, so i am not even sure what we are discussing here? I prefer points based, but can understand the woes of those that would prefer wins based.And lets be honest with ourselves. If they had rolled out wins based, and you only needed around 25 wins to get the 4* and maybe 30 for the cp, we wouldnt even be having this conversation.
broll said: shartattack said:Do you think that anyone investing the time should be able to earn the top progression reward in pvp? Yes. Unequivocally yes. IMO Progression should be a merit of effort and Ranking should be a merit of skill. Neither of those are 100% sure (especially the skill part) but IMO progression should be available to all. The argument that it shouldn't made sense before SCLs, but now that there are SCLs grouping players into similar level categories yes everyone should be able to hit progression.
broll said: The main irony I see here is so many people in here are saying wins based was fine, the only problem was the CP? Then tell me why there was all the snark about how great the old system is when all I asked was if there would be further improvements? No one is saying the as implemented wins based system was perfect. It has several flaws.
BoyWonder1914 said:Once again, the main issue people complained about with points-based, and thus raved about with wins-based, is not worrying about the loss of progression due to defensive losses. This causes shielding, which is where they get their money. Take away the need for shielding, and you also take away the revenue. They probably felt like they were giving away free resources to anyone who had the patience to just slog out the matches, which is why I'm assuming the CP disappeared from progression as well. They probably still get people shielding and fighting for t10 because that's where they placed the cheese at the end of the maze, but 10 people per bracket trying to get CP isn't as lucrative as hundreds or even thousands shielding to get progression rewards along the way.
Spudgutter said: BoyWonder1914 said:Once again, the main issue people complained about with points-based, and thus raved about with wins-based, is not worrying about the loss of progression due to defensive losses. This causes shielding, which is where they get their money. Take away the need for shielding, and you also take away the revenue. They probably felt like they were giving away free resources to anyone who had the patience to just slog out the matches, which is why I'm assuming the CP disappeared from progression as well. They probably still get people shielding and fighting for t10 because that's where they placed the cheese at the end of the maze, but 10 people per bracket trying to get CP isn't as lucrative as hundreds or even thousands shielding to get progression rewards along the way. I agree with a lot of your post. I even mentioned during that season, that if it did revert back to points based, that people would attribute it to the uproar regardless. That said, i would like more discussion about the shield side of it. Bow also brought up the money side of it, and while i agree with him as well, i cant wrap my head around it. Maybe because i am such a vet, that my farms keep me above hp neutral? Even with a couple shields an event, i still grow my stash by the hundreds every week. So i have to imagine, anyone who can manage 900 as a 4* transitioner with a shield hop or two, can still do so as a FTP player. Maybe they switched it back because of money. Maybe because of the backlash. Maybe too many people were getting 4* covers. We have absolutely no way to know for sure, now that i think about it
Piro_plock said: broll said: The main irony I see here is so many people in here are saying wins based was fine, the only problem was the CP? Then tell me why there was all the snark about how great the old system is when all I asked was if there would be further improvements? No one is saying the as implemented wins based system was perfect. It has several flaws. Win-based progression system has one inherent flaw that can't be removed, no matter how much you'll tweak the progression thresholds. It treats every win the same, no matter how hard the fight was. At least in point based system stronger rosters tend to have higher scores, so on average a more difficult fight will be more rewarding. Neither of those solutions is perfect, but I learned to live with point-based one. If anything, I'd tweak the calculation of the point value of a match to include relative team strength, because (almost) pure Elo is pretty good for symmetric multiplayer, but this isn't the case in MPQ.Also, about all those unwritten rules. Ever heard of a concept called metagame? Pretty much every multiplayer game (not limited to video games) has one. If you want to be really good at a game (and I'm pretty sure that getting 14 out of 15 available progression rewards is better than average), you need to take it into account.
Sm0keyJ0e said: Terrific news! Hopefully PVP stays exactly as it is. It's a real hoot!
It can be removed with an overhaul. I've long been a proponent of a points based system where losses don't take away any progression points. This IMO would be the perfect best of both worlds scenario. You get the variable points based on targets + the no backsliding progression of win based.
Arix90 said: Sm0keyJ0e said: Terrific news! Hopefully PVP stays exactly as it is. It's a real hoot! Hopefully no updates yet because so much is updated this season including a return to wins and rebalances And they were still testing changes
aesthetocyst said:Something happened in Participation Season that the devs a/o pubs found unacceptable. As this is a P2WM game, the presumption is it involved money. That either spending on PvP cratered, or spending in general cratered, or both. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. As always, we saw the what, devs not telling the why.
shartattack said: It can be removed with an overhaul. I've long been a proponent of a points based system where losses don't take away any progression points. This IMO would be the perfect best of both worlds scenario. You get the variable points based on targets + the no backsliding progression of win based. no points loss= no shields needed. no shields needed=no revenue. no revenue= no game.
JHawkInc said: Arix90 said: Sm0keyJ0e said: Terrific news! Hopefully PVP stays exactly as it is. It's a real hoot! Hopefully no updates yet because so much is updated this season including a return to wins and rebalances And they were still testing changes The use of passive language to imply that a user's desired version is the "one true way" is obnoxious.Hopefully, they find a method that is best for everyone instead of picking one or the other because some loud forum people like that one best.I swear, a significant number of people on these forums became insufferable during these recent PVP tests. Like, some people have been coming to these forums for years and suddenly one test has robbed them of the ability to attempt decent conversation.
Spudgutter said: shartattack said: It can be removed with an overhaul. I've long been a proponent of a points based system where losses don't take away any progression points. This IMO would be the perfect best of both worlds scenario. You get the variable points based on targets + the no backsliding progression of win based. no points loss= no shields needed. no shields needed=no revenue. no revenue= no game. How much money are you spending in shields? I brought it up earlier, i understand the theory, but have yet to be convinced that the numbers work. I get 2 or 3 shields per event, but outside of VIP, dont spend anything extra.For reference, i spent all my hp reserves during the anniversary, bought around 5 roster slots since then, and already have 9000 hp stored back up.I would counter that anyone that has the knowledge and ability to shield and hop for 900/1200, has a decent farm and is probably at least hp neutral. I'm open to have my opinion changed, but everyone just keeps saying it without backing it up.
mexus said: Milk Jugz said: mexus said: shartattack said: Ruinate said: Spudgutter said: aesthetocyst said: tiomono said: ...The amount of nonsensical "rules" in this game is astounding.... List a few of these "nonsensical 'rules'" please? Shouldn't be hard to do seeing as their is an astounding amount lying around. Cmon, you have been around long enough not to put out a troll question.In case you are being sincere for others, I'll throw a couple out:Dont climb in the last three hours.Dont try to hit more than two during a hopNever queue someone for less than 38 pointsFind your float pointGet in a line chat group, specifically a battle chat, so that you can circumvent the rules designed by the devs to try to make play fair, all the while professing that we are playing the game as it is designed and as such it shouldn't be changed.Should i go on? Who made those rules? I violate all of them. I could not follow a single rule with DD Thanos and not give up before 900 too. those rules don't really apply to the 1%, ruinate The same 1% preventing everyone else from making actually top 50. Considering the top 50 in each Versus bracket is 10% of the 500 person bracket, I'd love to see your math that proves 1% of the players are taking 10% of the spots...... I wasn't really even trying to come up with better numbers, I tried making a point.Jokes about bad maths doesn't really have any impact on me in this.
Milk Jugz said: mexus said: shartattack said: Ruinate said: Spudgutter said: aesthetocyst said: tiomono said: ...The amount of nonsensical "rules" in this game is astounding.... List a few of these "nonsensical 'rules'" please? Shouldn't be hard to do seeing as their is an astounding amount lying around. Cmon, you have been around long enough not to put out a troll question.In case you are being sincere for others, I'll throw a couple out:Dont climb in the last three hours.Dont try to hit more than two during a hopNever queue someone for less than 38 pointsFind your float pointGet in a line chat group, specifically a battle chat, so that you can circumvent the rules designed by the devs to try to make play fair, all the while professing that we are playing the game as it is designed and as such it shouldn't be changed.Should i go on? Who made those rules? I violate all of them. I could not follow a single rule with DD Thanos and not give up before 900 too. those rules don't really apply to the 1%, ruinate The same 1% preventing everyone else from making actually top 50. Considering the top 50 in each Versus bracket is 10% of the 500 person bracket, I'd love to see your math that proves 1% of the players are taking 10% of the spots......
mexus said: shartattack said: Ruinate said: Spudgutter said: aesthetocyst said: tiomono said: ...The amount of nonsensical "rules" in this game is astounding.... List a few of these "nonsensical 'rules'" please? Shouldn't be hard to do seeing as their is an astounding amount lying around. Cmon, you have been around long enough not to put out a troll question.In case you are being sincere for others, I'll throw a couple out:Dont climb in the last three hours.Dont try to hit more than two during a hopNever queue someone for less than 38 pointsFind your float pointGet in a line chat group, specifically a battle chat, so that you can circumvent the rules designed by the devs to try to make play fair, all the while professing that we are playing the game as it is designed and as such it shouldn't be changed.Should i go on? Who made those rules? I violate all of them. I could not follow a single rule with DD Thanos and not give up before 900 too. those rules don't really apply to the 1%, ruinate The same 1% preventing everyone else from making actually top 50.
shartattack said: Ruinate said: Spudgutter said: aesthetocyst said: tiomono said: ...The amount of nonsensical "rules" in this game is astounding.... List a few of these "nonsensical 'rules'" please? Shouldn't be hard to do seeing as their is an astounding amount lying around. Cmon, you have been around long enough not to put out a troll question.In case you are being sincere for others, I'll throw a couple out:Dont climb in the last three hours.Dont try to hit more than two during a hopNever queue someone for less than 38 pointsFind your float pointGet in a line chat group, specifically a battle chat, so that you can circumvent the rules designed by the devs to try to make play fair, all the while professing that we are playing the game as it is designed and as such it shouldn't be changed.Should i go on? Who made those rules? I violate all of them. I could not follow a single rule with DD Thanos and not give up before 900 too. those rules don't really apply to the 1%, ruinate
Ruinate said: Spudgutter said: aesthetocyst said: tiomono said: ...The amount of nonsensical "rules" in this game is astounding.... List a few of these "nonsensical 'rules'" please? Shouldn't be hard to do seeing as their is an astounding amount lying around. Cmon, you have been around long enough not to put out a troll question.In case you are being sincere for others, I'll throw a couple out:Dont climb in the last three hours.Dont try to hit more than two during a hopNever queue someone for less than 38 pointsFind your float pointGet in a line chat group, specifically a battle chat, so that you can circumvent the rules designed by the devs to try to make play fair, all the while professing that we are playing the game as it is designed and as such it shouldn't be changed.Should i go on? Who made those rules? I violate all of them. I could not follow a single rule with DD Thanos and not give up before 900 too.
Spudgutter said: aesthetocyst said: tiomono said: ...The amount of nonsensical "rules" in this game is astounding.... List a few of these "nonsensical 'rules'" please? Shouldn't be hard to do seeing as their is an astounding amount lying around. Cmon, you have been around long enough not to put out a troll question.In case you are being sincere for others, I'll throw a couple out:Dont climb in the last three hours.Dont try to hit more than two during a hopNever queue someone for less than 38 pointsFind your float pointGet in a line chat group, specifically a battle chat, so that you can circumvent the rules designed by the devs to try to make play fair, all the while professing that we are playing the game as it is designed and as such it shouldn't be changed.Should i go on?
aesthetocyst said: tiomono said: ...The amount of nonsensical "rules" in this game is astounding.... List a few of these "nonsensical 'rules'" please? Shouldn't be hard to do seeing as their is an astounding amount lying around.
tiomono said: ...The amount of nonsensical "rules" in this game is astounding....
mexus said: Someone mentioned that 1% of the player base have learned to exploit the PVP system because they share secret rules someplace.Which 1% is that? That same few players that are always in the top placements of course. That was my point, in order to be one of them you have to join them at Line or Discord (?) and learn the secret rules Demi probably didn't intend us to play by. I don't think that should be necessary in a good coded game, it's time consuming enough to match the tiles and adding 1* covers to gain XP.