Next Season PvP

Daiches

bluewolf said:

mexus said:

Borrowing this thread.
Any chance next Season PVP will be a short season? In before Christmas and all? Or do they have time for a full season?

FWIW, last year the season during the holidays was normal length.  They don’t try to schedule around holidays, just their own Anniversary.

Incorrect. They have a history of having new releases ON holiday weekends. 

tiomono

The rockett said:

You realize that personal rank for each pvp, ally rank for each pvp, personal rank for the season and ally rank for the season is STILL point based?  So yes, it will be another great season.  

You realize the devs wanted to change the current system right? So the current system we have is not what they want. Yes wins based went over like a lead balloon with top end players. But the devs (and I would argue a large chunk of the playerbase) want something different. 

turbomoose

I don’t see why they can’t have both win based and points based 

keep the overall season tally as points based but every other pvp could be win based that way everyone is happy 

i really couldn’t be bothered with pvp this season as I had more important things in real life to deal with 

next season im going to try and win everything I can as I’m stopping my vip in the new year as I have almost champed all the 4* so won’t need as much iso 

not planning on champing 5* for a while yet 

PorkBelly

The current version of PvP seems fine.  

The rockett

tiomono said:

The rockett said:

You realize that personal rank for each pvp, ally rank for each pvp, personal rank for the season and ally rank for the season is STILL point based?  So yes, it will be another great season.  

You realize the devs wanted to change the current system right? So the current system we have is not what they want. Yes wins based went over like a lead balloon with top end players. But the devs (and I would argue a large chunk of the playerbase) want something different. 

In my 1286 days in this game, there has not been much that they have turned back this quickly. So whatever they were thinking, taking comments on, the "data" they looked at was wrong. They flip flopped on this quicker then most politicians, well maybe not that quick. They didn't listen when they ran the 2 tests that they ran in the offseason and during gimick events. Then surprise surprise, it went over like a turd in a punch bowl. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that solution was not it. 

tiomono

The rockett said:

tiomono said:

The rockett said:

You realize that personal rank for each pvp, ally rank for each pvp, personal rank for the season and ally rank for the season is STILL point based?  So yes, it will be another great season.  

You realize the devs wanted to change the current system right? So the current system we have is not what they want. Yes wins based went over like a lead balloon with top end players. But the devs (and I would argue a large chunk of the playerbase) want something different. 

In my 1286 days in this game, there has not been much that they have turned back this quickly. So whatever they were thinking, taking comments on, the "data" they looked at was wrong. They flip flopped on this quicker then most politicians, well maybe not that quick. They didn't listen when they ran the 2 tests that they ran in the offseason and during gimick events. Then surprise surprise, it went over like a turd in a punch bowl. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that solution was not it. 

I did not say it was the solution. I am tired of many people insisting that what we have right now is good. It's not. The devs don't think so either or they would not have looked to make such a radical change.

Broll along with a large chunk of the playerbase simply want a change. But anytime someone tries to discuss it this forum seems to pounce on them with the mentality that they are stubborn, stupid, or unwilling to "learn to play". 

Many of those same players like to say they know what the devs intend gameplay to be, but somehow turn a blind eye to the fact that the devs are actively trying to change versus because of whatever reasons they may have.

Wins based had big problems. But do not try and say what we currently have doesn't stink for a large chunk of players.

shardwick

What I want next season: 5* node in pve changed to a boss node (similar to Webbed Wonder), a change to how nodes recharge, hybrid pvp season test, holiday themed alliance event, holiday variant covers

What we'll get from Santa: another character specific boost and probably a Gambit nerf.

Alsmir

nycjonny said:

broll said:

Man, I guess you guys really never get tired of your own smugness...

no need to insult people for not liking the thing you like.

I wonder why a small group likes the half-broken system that benefits them more than anyone else?

acescracked

Alsmir said:

nycjonny said:

broll said:

Man, I guess you guys really never get tired of your own smugness...

no need to insult people for not liking the thing you like.

I wonder why a small group likes the half-broken system that benefits them more than anyone else?

I agree! The few players that win based PvP helped just keep bringing it up! Ty @Alsmir for pointing that out. The switch back to points PvP was because win based was helping a small group.

Bowgentle

acescracked said:

Alsmir said:

nycjonny said:

broll said:

Man, I guess you guys really never get tired of your own smugness...

no need to insult people for not liking the thing you like.

I wonder why a small group likes the half-broken system that benefits them more than anyone else?

I agree! The few players that win based PvP helped just keep bringing it up! Ty @Alsmir for pointing that out. The switch back to points PvP was because win based was helping a small group.

To be fair, it probably helped a gigantic part of the playerbase.

Problem for them is, those players don't spend.

So they can argue all they want, as long as revenue goes down, this incarnation of win based isn't coming back - neither is anything else that doesn't cater to spenders.

People forget this game isn't for their enjoyment, it's there to make people spend money.

Milk Jugz

tiomono said:

......

Broll along with a large chunk of the playerbase simply want a change. But anytime someone tries to discuss it this forum seems to pounce on them with the mentality that they are stubborn, stupid, or unwilling to "learn to play". 

......

But a lot of people are unwilling to "learn to play". It is a competitive game! Do you play Monopoly, decide you aren't going to buy hotels, and then are upset when you lose? Do you play chess, decide you aren't going to take the opponents queen and rooks, and then are upset when you lose? Do you play Risk, decide you aren't going to add new armies at the beginning of each turn, and then are upset when you lose? EVERY COMPETITIVE GAME HAS STRATEGY TO LEARN!!! If you decide not to learn it, or perfect it (strategy takes practice to perfect, after all. You don't go into any of those games I mentioned an all star from day 1) then you will lose. I don't get why that is hard to understand.......

The rockett

tiomono said:

The rockett said:

tiomono said:

The rockett said:

I did not say it was the solution. I am tired of many people insisting that what we have right now is good. It's not. The devs don't think so either or they would not have looked to make such a radical change.

Broll along with a large chunk of the playerbase simply want a change. But anytime someone tries to discuss it this forum seems to pounce on them with the mentality that they are stubborn, stupid, or unwilling to "learn to play". 

Many of those same players like to say they know what the devs intend gameplay to be, but somehow turn a blind eye to the fact that the devs are actively trying to change versus because of whatever reasons they may have.

Wins based had big problems. But do not try and say what we currently have doesn't stink for a large chunk of players.

I never said the current system is great. There are issues including the black out of rewards from 900 to 1200.  Player versus player is to be competitive that is just the nature of the game.  Heck PVE is too, but that discussion is for another thread. 

I guess my issue is that I came up through this system, 1287 days in.  I learned how to get full progression, 1300 back then, without any check rooms.  Our ally set up a Battle C(h)at for the slice we were in.  All we did is spread out in different brackets and try and Q each other. Once we shielded we would hit each other and maybe another person in our bracket that was shielded.  This is was all A teams. It was heck a lot of fun to be honest, miss this times of learning PVP with that group of people. We just played off of each other all the time.  This was over 2 years ago.  No check rooms, heck we didn't we know they were around. Just our ally trying something new to push us to learn how to get to progression.

I am not saying the current system is perfect for all, but this is what we got.  You can ask, beg, plead, try and make D3/Demi change the current system or you can change your own game play and try and work within it. Yes you will have to use shields, yes you willl get hit, yes you will lose points. This is player verse player. Now i don't play any other games, I am not a gamer, but are there any other games that have a PVP system that a massive change like what happened here and it worked?  It seems to me what I have read about other PVP formats that it is simlair to this, but again I don't know how they work. 

Nick441234

Got to be honest, I was an advocate for the win based pvp, but the win totals were too high. After going back to points based pvp last season, that is definitely better as things stand. 

tiomono

Milk Jugz said:

tiomono said: 

......

Broll along with a large chunk of the playerbase simply want a change. But anytime someone tries to discuss it this forum seems to pounce on them with the mentality that they are stubborn, stupid, or unwilling to "learn to play". 

......

But a lot of people are unwilling to "learn to play". It is a competitive game! Do you play Monopoly, decide you aren't going to buy hotels, and then are upset when you lose? Do you play chess, decide you aren't going to take the opponents queen and rooks, and then are upset when you lose? Do you play Risk, decide you aren't going to add new armies at the beginning of each turn, and then are upset when you lose? EVERY COMPETITIVE GAME HAS STRATEGY TO LEARN!!! If you decide not to learn it, or perfect it (strategy takes practice to perfect, after all. You don't go into any of those games I mentioned an all star from day 1) then you will lose. I don't get why that is hard to understand.......

Because those games have rules that make sense. And are not at least partially driven by money. In chess I move then you move. In mpq PvP I move and you and 4 other people move against me at the same time. One of those 4 may have even payed to turn all their pawns into queens.

Under the current versus model there are too many behind the scenes things that are not outlined for players. 

Yes there is strategy to learn in mpq, but the foundation it' built on is flawed. The devs see that and are trying to improve it. I don't get why that is so hard to understand....

tiomono

The rockett said:

tiomono said:

The rockett said:

tiomono said:

The rockett said:

I did not say it was the solution. I am tired of many people insisting that what we have right now is good. It's not. The devs don't think so either or they would not have looked to make such a radical change.

Broll along with a large chunk of the playerbase simply want a change. But anytime someone tries to discuss it this forum seems to pounce on them with the mentality that they are stubborn, stupid, or unwilling to "learn to play". 

Many of those same players like to say they know what the devs intend gameplay to be, but somehow turn a blind eye to the fact that the devs are actively trying to change versus because of whatever reasons they may have.

Wins based had big problems. But do not try and say what we currently have doesn't stink for a large chunk of players.

I never said the current system is great. There are issues including the black out of rewards from 900 to 1200.  Player versus player is to be competitive that is just the nature of the game.  Heck PVE is too, but that discussion is for another thread. 

I guess my issue is that I came up through this system, 1287 days in.  I learned how to get full progression, 1300 back then, without any check rooms.  Our ally set up a Battle C(h)at for the slice we were in.  All we did is spread out in different brackets and try and Q each other. Once we shielded we would hit each other and maybe another person in our bracket that was shielded.  This is was all A teams. It was heck a lot of fun to be honest, miss this times of learning PVP with that group of people. We just played off of each other all the time.  This was over 2 years ago.  No check rooms, heck we didn't we know they were around. Just our ally trying something new to push us to learn how to get to progression.

I am not saying the current system is perfect for all, but this is what we got.  You can ask, beg, plead, try and make D3/Demi change the current system or you can change your own game play and try and work within it. Yes you will have to use shields, yes you willl get hit, yes you will lose points. This is player verse player. Now i don't play any other games, I am not a gamer, but are there any other games that have a PVP system that a massive change like what happened here and it worked?  It seems to me what I have read about other PVP formats that it is simlair to this, but again I don't know how they work. 

I play lots of games. Many of them with a competitive side. In none of those do I lose points to players I am not playing against. If I win I gain a win, and in some games that means earning points towards ranking up. As you get move through ranks you face other players with a similar rank. You are not thrown into the same bracket with the most skilled players unless you are at the level.

Contrast that to mpq. You are in a bracket with everyone. From people that know how to game the system all the way down to someone who only wants to play a match or 2 for fun. I could have a very strong 3 star roster but 5 star players still get to kick me down as they late climb in my bracket just because I decided or was limited by my time to join my slice and play from the start.

The amount of nonsensical "rules" in this game is astounding. So much so that the devs know they have a horrid vs system and are looking for a way to change it. If you dare to say that though you get people jumping down your throat telling you to "get good and learn".

Yes I do what I must in this current system to get the rewards I want. But the system sucks. I know it, the devs know it, but alot of players think its great and look down on anyone that disagree.

Bowgentle

mexus said:

aesthetocyst said:

tiomono said: ...The amount of nonsensical "rules" in this game is astounding....

List a few of these "nonsensical 'rules'" please? Shouldn't be hard to do seeing as their is an astounding amount lying around.

Waiting for a "bracket" to "flip" in order to "snipe" is nonsensical to me. But that's not a game "rule" per se. But in order to be a top player you need to know about this.

No you don't.

Top players are not late climbing leeches who wait for bracket flips.

Top players join with enough time to get the score for the placement they want, however high that score is.

Bracket sniping is for PVE.

dr tinykittylove

mexus said:

aesthetocyst said:

tiomono said: ...The amount of nonsensical "rules" in this game is astounding....

List a few of these "nonsensical 'rules'" please? Shouldn't be hard to do seeing as their is an astounding amount lying around.

Waiting for a "bracket" to "flip" in order to "snipe" is nonsensical to me. But that's not a game "rule" per se. But in order to be a top player you need to know about this.

It's strange, by the way, that no matter what thread I'm opening there's a discussion either about Gambit or the flawed PVP system.

The real top players start right when the slice starts, both pvp and pve. People who can't keep up with them or are lazy wait for bracket flips.  

Sm0keyJ0e

We have this PVP discussion about unwritten rules every 3 months. The exact same things can be said about PVE. No new player knows about "optimal" play and timers and sniping brackets or whatever. The whole game is this way... has been since day one, and has survived in spite of that. People that become passionate about the game find their way on here and Line and Discord. I am not sure why that is a problem?

If anything I think it has helped with the game's longevity and should be embraced, not battled against.

mohio

These arguments you guys have are so funny to watch (okay, read). Most of the people "arguing" for points based pvp have said in many other threads they don't even mind the wins based pvp, it's just that the numbers for progression are off, and they don't agree with moving the extra 15 cp into placement rewards. The ones "arguing" for wins based pvp don't even necessarily disagree with that, they just like change enough to put up with the downsides. I'll put this next part separate cause I think it's more important...

All future discussions of "what's the best pvp system" should really start from this point outlined above. Admit you can agree on something and work on a compromise instead of holding firm on one side or the other. 

broll

OJSP said:

Dartmaster01 said:

Spoken like someone who would not have to fight 40 champed Gambits in a row to hit progression.

He has a championed DD and Thanos now.. Might not be pushing for win based system anymore

If anything I prefer it more now. I missed 900 completely in Mystique. I did about 28-32 wins. I’d have had the time to do more but gave up out of frustration. 

Sm0keyJ0e said:

We have this PVP discussion about unwritten rules every 3 months. The exact same things can be said about PVE. No new player knows about "optimal" play and timers and sniping brackets or whatever. The whole game is this way... has been since day one, and has survived in spite of that. People that become passionate about the game find their way on here and Line and Discord. I am not sure why that is a problem?

Agreed PvE has the same problems and I'd be petitioning for that change to be completed if they implemented a mostly workable change then pulled the plug on it after a month...

Yeah sure, having hidden rules isn't a problem, keeps them noobs in their place right?