Update to Versus Tournament Progression Rewards (11/15/17)

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  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
    smkspy said:
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    smkspy said:
    Pinko McFly said:
    For everyone saying 'I could jump in and hit 40 wins, whenever I want to', how many of you actually did that for every event? The most I've seen mentioned here is 4 events.
    Even factoring in people not on the forum, I'd guess the game had more of the 900+ scorers drop off than were replaced by people getting 40 wins EVERY event. As the season went on, this divide probably became more obvious.


    I did every single event and never was a chore...neither was 74 wins for SIM either. In fact, it freed up my schedule even more because I wasn't limited to trying to time my PvP rise at just the right time or shield hop when the conditions were just right. 

    PVE is way more time consuming than 40 win pvp.

    I find that hard to believe when most players that are on the 4-star side of things do their clears around the hour mark. 4 clears each on 10 nodes is 40 wins. I can score 700-800 points in PVP in an hour but it will be WAYYYY less than 40 wins. My roster can't be that much different than yours. 
    Pve is usually 2-3 hours for me every day. 1-1/2 for end of sub then 1-1/2 for next sub.

    40 win PvP was 4 sessions of 5 matches throughout the day whenever I wanted. Then easy retals here or there. It was more fights, no doubt. One pvp I was at 830 after 29 wins. Another PvP I was at 730 after 40 wins. YMMV, but you've got your one approach/philosophy to PvP that you believe everyone must adhere to, learn from, and adapt to or else they are just whiners. 

    Maybe it was you who needed to adapt to the new system, just like pve players had to adapt after 5 star players whined until they got major advantages in that mode.
    So someone who put in the hard work (and/or money) to get their roster to an elite level, the highest level of the game that there is, doesn't deserve to have the game get easier for them as a result of their hard work? You know, like it had been doing all along as they pushed through the 3-star and 4-star tiers? It was fair for them to get opponents scaled all the way up into next week, to a point where the game was no longer even fun, just for progressing their roster like EVERYONE is trying to do? It was fair, and made sense that 4-star and even 3-4 star transitioners could beat them out for placement rewards? It was D3's fault for not giving them a clearance level and rewards that were actually appropriate for them, not theirs. They could just as easily accuse 4-star players of whining about it when they could no longer make t10 against them. 

    People have a right to complain about it when a mobile game all of a sudden forces them to commit more time to it when they want to enjoy life away from MPQ. 40 wins was an increased time commitment whatever way you try to slice it. So what you had a plan and schedule around it, you still committed that extra time to the game, whether it was all at once or not. It's also funny that you mention sessions of certain amount of matches as if that's really fundamentally different from sitting down for a few minutes to plan out a shield hop. The irony in these conversations speaks volumes. If you actually listened to most of the arguments, people cared MUCH more about the fact that they needed to squeeze out 40 against their MMR rather than the fact that it was wins-based period. 
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    smkspy said:
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    smkspy said:
    Pinko McFly said:
    For everyone saying 'I could jump in and hit 40 wins, whenever I want to', how many of you actually did that for every event? The most I've seen mentioned here is 4 events.
    Even factoring in people not on the forum, I'd guess the game had more of the 900+ scorers drop off than were replaced by people getting 40 wins EVERY event. As the season went on, this divide probably became more obvious.


    I did every single event and never was a chore...neither was 74 wins for SIM either. In fact, it freed up my schedule even more because I wasn't limited to trying to time my PvP rise at just the right time or shield hop when the conditions were just right. 

    PVE is way more time consuming than 40 win pvp.

    I find that hard to believe when most players that are on the 4-star side of things do their clears around the hour mark. 4 clears each on 10 nodes is 40 wins. I can score 700-800 points in PVP in an hour but it will be WAYYYY less than 40 wins. My roster can't be that much different than yours. 
    Pve is usually 2-3 hours for me every day. 1-1/2 for end of sub then 1-1/2 for next sub.

    40 win PvP was 4 sessions of 5 matches throughout the day whenever I wanted. Then easy retals here or there. It was more fights, no doubt. One pvp I was at 830 after 29 wins. Another PvP I was at 730 after 40 wins. YMMV, but you've got your one approach/philosophy to PvP that you believe everyone must adhere to, learn from, and adapt to or else they are just whiners. 

    Maybe it was you who needed to adapt to the new system, just like pve players had to adapt after 5 star players whined until they got major advantages in that mode.
    So someone who put in the hard work (and/or money) to get their roster to an elite level, the highest level of the game that there is, doesn't deserve to have the game get easier for them as a result of their hard work? You know, like it had been doing all along as they pushed through the 3-star and 4-star tiers? It was fair for them to get opponents scaled all the way up into next week, to a point where the game was no longer even fun, just for progressing their roster like EVERYONE is trying to do? It was fair, and made sense that 4-star and even 3-4 star transitioners could beat them out for placement rewards? It was D3's fault for not giving them a clearance level and rewards that were actually appropriate for them, not theirs. They could just as easily accuse 4-star players of whining about it when they could no longer make t10 against them. 

    People have a right to complain about it when a mobile game all of a sudden forces them to commit more time to it when they want to enjoy life away from MPQ. 40 wins was an increased time commitment whatever way you try to slice it. So what you had a plan and schedule around it, you still committed that extra time to the game, whether it was all at once or not. It's also funny that you mention sessions of certain amount of matches as if that's really fundamentally different from sitting down for a few minutes to plan out a shield hop. The irony in these conversations speaks volumes. If you actually listened to most of the arguments, people cared MUCH more about the fact that they needed to squeeze out 40 against their MMR rather than the fact that it was wins-based period. 
    Well, you can't see the irony in your own posts, so we've hit a brick wall with each other. And I don't think either of us what to be the next fightmaster.

    Til the next change that there is to whine about, oh hey, shield training and xp changes, we're already there.

  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
    astrp3 said:

    I have a roster that's not quite as strong as BoyWonder (29 4* champs, highest level 3* is 251, no 5* above 255) and my experience was similar to smkspy.

    I also reached 40 wins in every PvP and it was less time consuming than PvE. It takes me about 45 minutes to an hour to do my PvE clears, maybe a bit longer if I have no champed 4*s. I do that twice a day for a total of 90 minutes to 2.5 hours, depending on the boosted characters. 

    I didn't track how long I played PvP each day, but I'm almost certain it was less than 90 minutes. 
    I entered at the start and got to 12 wins (ca 15-20 minutes). After that, I'd usually do 4 wins per session, which took 10-15 minutes per session. Spread over 2.5 days, that's about 40 to 50 minutes a day. In practice, I spent a bit more time than this playing PvP because I actually pushed past 40 wins (usually to 44-50 wins) for top 50 placement but even counting that, I'm still pretty sure it wasn't as much time as I spent on PvE.

    Plus, I could spread my PvP time out over those 2.5 days, whereas in PvE, I had to do my initial clears in one lump - and if I was going for top 10, I had to do my initial AND final clears in one lump, which made it seem to take even longer.

    Maybe my estimates are way off and I actually spent way more time on PvP than I thought, but I don't think so (for one thing, I often played PvP during lunch or on breaks, so there was a limit to how long it could have taken).

    My math may also be off, in which case I could be totally wrong.

    Of course, I was in SCL 7 (for both PvP and PvE) so that may have had something to do with it (as may my slice). And unlike other players, after my initial session, I almost never saw 5* opponents and was almost always able to find queues with 3* teams or unboosted 4* teams.  And I only used one shield at the end (to preserve top 50 placement) and didn't skip thousands of times (like some apparently do).
    Perception of time seems to be the culprit in a lot of these disagreements I have. As far as I'm concerned, time is time. 

    1 hour straight of MPQ = 3 20-minute sessions of MPQ. 
    5 minutes to get a couple of wins = 5 minutes to do a double shield-hop

    I'm not here to argue about the flexibility that this may give to your personal schedule, it's great that you found a way to make it work for you. Even better that you could do that and not have to worry about loss of points and shielding. For me personally, I like to do what I need to do with the game, and be done with it so that it's not something that's constantly nagging me in the back of my mind. Between work, and whatever semblance I have a of a social life, I don't like having to take breaks away from that for the sake of getting in matches. So I measure that commitment moreso by the amount of times that I have to keep going back to it over the course of the day, rather than the time spent in one sitting being my inconvenience. There's also the fact that I still care about my placement, so it's a problem for me to let myself get hit so I can stay low and keep finding easier matches. Because of MMR, there comes the dread of knowing that all the later matches are going to take increased amounts of time. 
  • astrp3
    astrp3 Posts: 367 Mover and Shaker
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    astrp3 said:

    I have a roster that's not quite as strong as BoyWonder (29 4* champs, highest level 3* is 251, no 5* above 255) and my experience was similar to smkspy.

    I also reached 40 wins in every PvP and it was less time consuming than PvE. It takes me about 45 minutes to an hour to do my PvE clears, maybe a bit longer if I have no champed 4*s. I do that twice a day for a total of 90 minutes to 2.5 hours, depending on the boosted characters. 

    I didn't track how long I played PvP each day, but I'm almost certain it was less than 90 minutes. 
    I entered at the start and got to 12 wins (ca 15-20 minutes). After that, I'd usually do 4 wins per session, which took 10-15 minutes per session. Spread over 2.5 days, that's about 40 to 50 minutes a day. In practice, I spent a bit more time than this playing PvP because I actually pushed past 40 wins (usually to 44-50 wins) for top 50 placement but even counting that, I'm still pretty sure it wasn't as much time as I spent on PvE.

    Plus, I could spread my PvP time out over those 2.5 days, whereas in PvE, I had to do my initial clears in one lump - and if I was going for top 10, I had to do my initial AND final clears in one lump, which made it seem to take even longer.

    Maybe my estimates are way off and I actually spent way more time on PvP than I thought, but I don't think so (for one thing, I often played PvP during lunch or on breaks, so there was a limit to how long it could have taken).

    My math may also be off, in which case I could be totally wrong.

    Of course, I was in SCL 7 (for both PvP and PvE) so that may have had something to do with it (as may my slice). And unlike other players, after my initial session, I almost never saw 5* opponents and was almost always able to find queues with 3* teams or unboosted 4* teams.  And I only used one shield at the end (to preserve top 50 placement) and didn't skip thousands of times (like some apparently do).
    Perception of time seems to be the culprit in a lot of these disagreements I have. As far as I'm concerned, time is time. 

    1 hour straight of MPQ = 3 20-minute sessions of MPQ. 
    5 minutes to get a couple of wins = 5 minutes to do a double shield-hop

    I'm not here to argue about the flexibility that this may give to your personal schedule, it's great that you found a way to make it work for you. Even better that you could do that and not have to worry about loss of points and shielding. For me personally, I like to do what I need to do with the game, and be done with it so that it's not something that's constantly nagging me in the back of my mind. Between work, and whatever semblance I have a of a social life, I don't like having to take breaks away from that for the sake of getting in matches. So I measure that commitment moreso by the amount of times that I have to keep going back to it over the course of the day, rather than the time spent in one sitting being my inconvenience. There's also the fact that I still care about my placement, so it's a problem for me to let myself get hit so I can stay low and keep finding easier matches. Because of MMR, there comes the dread of knowing that all the later matches are going to take increased amounts of time. 
    Even aside from the perception of time, I spent less time overall per day on PvP than PvE. Of course, the real comparison here is how much time on spent on wins-based PvP vs points-based. I'd guess that I did spend more total time on PvP under the wins system and almost certainly played more matches, but it probably wasn't much, more time given that my matches were much easier. 

    As for PvP vs PvE, to be totally accurate, I probably should have factored in two-day subs, which would lower my daily average. On the other hand, in PvE, even if I was pretty sure I could do my final clears in 40-45 minutes, I had to start a bit earlier just to give myself some padding. There were times when I didn't and ended up missing top ten because I came one or two clears short.

  • Hilk
    Hilk Posts: 133 Tile Toppler
    I liked the wins based system.... it gave a chance to try some interesting combos without worrying if the computer would lose with them when it played.... ( and I didn’t have to worry when I tried something new/crazy and lost).  I also saw a lot more interesting match ups to play against.

    the CP being in the progression was nice also.


  • killerkoala
    killerkoala Posts: 1,185 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    1200 is 15 CP again, not t10
  • Wonko33
    Wonko33 Posts: 985 Critical Contributor
    beyonderbub said:
    Wonko33 said:
    Does it really matter to them to get that 1 extra 4* cover when they already get tons from placements and tokens? Isn't it all about the CP and LT at that point?

    ALL covers matter  - should be a movement slogan. Covers = roster progression. It's a champ level that either rewards CP/LTs or leads to another rung closer in the champ reward ladder to an LT/CP reward. Even 1* covers now have XP value towards a higher Shield Rank which gives out ISO bonuses each time you ascend. So whether you are starting out or sitting on level 550s, you can always parlay any cover into digital currency towards current roster development or the new new release. If you are competitive in any vein, then it does and should matter to you. 
    That's how you get burned out, feeling you have to get absolutely every reward, investing tons of time for minuscule progress. I know how it is , I used to play that way too. Being a completionist is more of an obsession than a strategy
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    shardwick said:
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    shardwick said:

    Oh if I had a dollar for every comment that I saw about 5* players bragging about going seal clubbing or begging and screaming for the MMR to be opened up so that they could attack 4* players and below. Also, you really shouldn't trash others for wanting to voice their opinion and being on a soapbox as you do the exact same thing. Just sayin'. 
    Would love to hear your thoughts on the matter if you know anything about what the MMR is like at the 5-star level, or what it was like before they finally decided to start boosting 5-star characters. Just sayin'. 
    Oh, you mean the MMR where 5* players always bragged about doing multitaps before win based? It's interesting how quickly 5* players can change their narrative though. One moment it's nothing but an endless sea of 5* players that's a total slog and the next it's seals for days and days where 5*s threaten 4s that they will now hit them countless times. If your MMR was soooooo bad then you wouldn't really ever see 4*s or lower much less have an opportunity to hit them multiple times.
    Your post points out that you haven't actually experienced it yourself though....
    And neither has any 5* player.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    acescracked said:
    tiomono said:....
     The fact that the best way to play a 2 and a half day event is to only play for like 6 hours or whatever it takes is stupid.
    The event is two days to give time flexibility for play and give options on how long you want to play.

    Not force you to play constantly every PvP for 2 days straight. Ever heard of burnout? Yuck! Two hours every 2 days fine by me.
    Ok but the rest of my point stands. The devs think point based progression is not good or "as they intended" or they would not be trying to change it. 

    And maybe they think it's bad because people non stop give ones or zeroes on surveys asking if they would recommend the game to a friend. If the long time players do nothing but trash the game and say they would not recommend it to other people the devs are absolutely going to try and change things to both improve player retention and bring in new people.

    The current system is bad, broken, or whatever other negative word you want to tag on. It needs changed. 
  • legendofuncle
    legendofuncle Posts: 6 Just Dropped In
    this is ****, give us the option to choose either system, instead of just going back because a few players start crying and whining. ****
  • NotBAMF
    NotBAMF Posts: 408 Mover and Shaker
    Nice to see the Punisher event has been open for 20 minutes and I have already lost 70 points of progress. 
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    NotBAMF said:
    Nice to see the Punisher event has been open for 20 minutes and I have already lost 70 points of progress. 
    There it is. I'm sure PvP is a little confusing to the uninitiated. But why does it have to be dumbed down such that there is mindless zero failure. Just because you can't understand losing 70 points in the first 20 mins means absolutely nothing?

    Or are you front-running?
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 3,101 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    NotBAMF said:
    Nice to see the Punisher event has been open for 20 minutes and I have already lost 70 points of progress. 
    You're going to lose the most points when players are most active. That would be right when the event starts, right before it ends, and around all of the shield time frames. 
  • ursopro
    ursopro Posts: 334 Mover and Shaker
    edited November 2017
    To everyone that dislike the rollback, just make threads every single day including but not limited to: complaining about how awful the changes are, "I stopped buying 5 starks per day because... memoirs ", I quit editorial letters, meaningless data charts that support your point like: "# players missed the 4* cover this week!!!", polls, etc.

    Remember: the louder you are, the more they will listen.
  • fanghoul
    fanghoul Posts: 311 Mover and Shaker
    This sucks
  • ZootSax
    ZootSax Posts: 1,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    If you're in your 30s, and you have a relative/friend that constantly tells you about how life will be different once you get into your 40s, then it's pretty silly for you to not at least consider their opinion valid. 
    You, Sir, have clearly never met any of my relatives in their 40's ;)

    I'm not saying your main point was wrong...just that this analogy clearly was...

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