Marc Spector wrote: thanks, Kolence, john, Phaserhawk! Yeah, I'm really looking forward to trying her out with Hulk/Patch soon. I've loved the thought of her generating red for Steve Rogers, although the fact that he'd tank yellow for her turned me against that -- I figure each of her 3 colors that CapMarvel doesn't tank is essentially removing 1/3 of the value of her yellow. Should be useful though in her tourney though.
dkffiv wrote: Doing the write up for http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25429 gave me a crazy idea for Capt. Marvel:Photonic Blasts - Red 10 AP Captain Marvel unleashes the amazing cosmic power of her photonic blasts, damaging herself and overloading her enemy's powers. Converts up to 2 Enemy Protect, Attack, or Strike Tiles into Critical Tiles. Deals 316 Damage if no targets are available. (Deals 1% of her maximum life to her self. Perhaps start at 2% and drop the cost down with covers) Level Upgrades Level 2: Deals 422 Damage Level 3: Converts 3 Enemy Tiles Level 4: Deals 705 Damage Level 5: Converts All Enemy Tiles Max Level: 2241 Damage, all Enemy tiles converted *does NOT convert CD tiles The self damage is to ensure this ability can't be used as a Team Up. As others have posted, a rock paper scissors approach is probably better than just immediately nerfing strong characters. I was asking myself if its unfair that this Marvel would wipe the floor with Blade + Daken or even Storm + CMags and I came to the conclusion of no, not really. She's still pretty **** if the enemy has no special tiles and if you're facing her you don't bring characters that generate a ton of special tiles (or you wait until she's dead before using those abilities). We already partially play around that with Doc Oc and he's in desperate need of some buffs (as long as he isn't drastically overleveled he's a pretty **** counter to Daken). Also I would really like to see half the board turn into critical tiles against Storm.
Kolence wrote: She's not **** to begin with. You bring her against a team that spams strike tiles so you can get her to generate red/black. For someone else or for herself. If it's for herself, black is decent enough on its own, but red is a little underwhelming. Unless you have some strike tiles of your own, since it is relatively cheap/spammy. That's why she pairs with Patch so well. The idea is interesting though. I could see tweaking her red by making it change 1 (maaybe 2) random strike/attack tile into a critical in addition to what it does now. That should make it cause more damage and have a little more utility (watch out IF! ) and cascade potential.
kalirion wrote: Can anyone summarize why 3-5-5 is winning so badly over 4-4-5 in the votes? Is a little more damage and +1 turn stun on Black so much preferable to a lot more damage on red? Mainly asking because I just got top 10 in the PVP and need to choose between the two builds.
sk8-45 wrote: kalirion wrote: Can anyone summarize why 3-5-5 is winning so badly over 4-4-5 in the votes? Is a little more damage and +1 turn stun on Black so much preferable to a lot more damage on red? Mainly asking because I just got top 10 in the PVP and need to choose between the two builds. It's just because her red is really, really bad, except when you need to use her against opponents like Magneto/Spiderman, etc... A lot of people use her to feed other red users like Cap or Thor ****. And put her red to 4 will just add 500 damage, which will not change the fact that you will find a lot of better red users.
Marc Spector wrote: kalirion wrote: Can anyone summarize why 3-5-5 is winning so badly over 4-4-5 in the votes? Is a little more damage and +1 turn stun on Black so much preferable to a lot more damage on red? Mainly asking because I just got top 10 in the PVP and need to choose between the two builds. I had 4/4/5 (@ 166), then tried 3/5/5. I went back to 4/4/5, and am staying there.Why? Because my CMarvel wasn't generating red for others -- only herself. When I do use her she's tanking all 3 of her colors, and that red AP built up quickly and frequently. Completely ignoring the shield-destroying mechanic, spamming a few uses of a cheap ~1400dmg attack was a lot better than spamming a few uses of a cheap ~700dmg attack. When I had 5 black, I found the dmg increase from 4->5 covers far less noticeable, and don't remember a single occasion where a 2nd turn of the stun would've completely turned a bad match around (vs. a 1 turn stun). For facing react-on-hit characters like Hulk, the 1 turn stun was just fine for being able to unload several powers on 'em in a single turn with no ill effect.I agree that her red isn't great -- but dropping it from 4 covers to 3 felt like going from "hmm, good!" to "useless."
Marc Spector wrote: kalirion wrote: Can anyone summarize why 3-5-5 is winning so badly over 4-4-5 in the votes? Is a little more damage and +1 turn stun on Black so much preferable to a lot more damage on red? Mainly asking because I just got top 10 in the PVP and need to choose between the two builds. I had 4/4/5 (@ 166), then tried 3/5/5. I went back to 4/4/5, and am staying there. Why? Because my CMarvel wasn't generating red for others -- only herself. When I do use her she's tanking all 3 of her colors, and that red AP built up quickly and frequently. Completely ignoring the shield-destroying mechanic, spamming a few uses of a cheap ~1400dmg attack was a lot better than spamming a few uses of a cheap ~700dmg attack. When I had 5 black, I found the dmg increase from 4->5 covers far less noticeable, and don't remember a single occasion where a 2nd turn of the stun would've completely turned a bad match around (vs. a 1 turn stun). For facing react-on-hit characters like Hulk, the 1 turn stun was just fine for being able to unload several powers on 'em in a single turn with no ill effect. I agree that her red isn't great -- but dropping it from 4 covers to 3 felt like going from "hmm, good!" to "useless."
dkffiv wrote: Overall she's pretty terrible and I don't think I'd ever use her in PvE outside of heroics. In PvP getting hit by a 2 turn stun can be devastating so 3/5/5 has the "potential" to generate more D wins than 4/4/5 (or at the very least force your opponent to use more health kits).
Phaserhawk wrote: I'm starting to wonder if 4/4/5 might actually be the most optimal build. You get an extra 600 dmg on red which is very spammable and you lose 334 on black, the biggest issue to me is the loss of the extra turn of stun, however.... I think it's safe to say you get about a 2 to 1 if not more ratio of using her red to black so that 1 extra turn stun in theory is costing you an extra 870 dmg. 602x2=1200 1204-334=870 To me the question isn't whether you could do more damage with a free turn, it's is stunning someone 2 turns needed. Here's my new take. I'm not bring Cpt Marvel for anything other than PvP or essential nodes and in a boosted PvP her red if max damaged does hurt as well as her black. I don't think her black is really that great anymore and anything more than 4 red is really a waste except in very niche situations, If I'm building her for Heroics and PvP only what's her best build? I think with her you really have to try to pump out as much damage as possible and to me that's 4/4/5
dkffiv wrote: Unless she's intentionally underleveled, taking 695+ damage against same level opponent's is difficult (even with strike tiles). Hulk only needs to take 574 damage (Marvel needs to take 21% more damage!). Granted you can force the opponent to gain that many strike tiles with Patch but her life total is a lot lower than Hulk and she doesn't have the faster healing that he does. Anger + strike tiles is a lot more effective than Photon Blast spam too. Marvel's current specialty is that she can remove protect tiles and there are very few characters that even create them.
dkffiv wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: I'm starting to wonder if 4/4/5 might actually be the most optimal build. You get an extra 600 dmg on red which is very spammable and you lose 334 on black, the biggest issue to me is the loss of the extra turn of stun, however.... I think it's safe to say you get about a 2 to 1 if not more ratio of using her red to black so that 1 extra turn stun in theory is costing you an extra 870 dmg. 602x2=1200 1204-334=870 To me the question isn't whether you could do more damage with a free turn, it's is stunning someone 2 turns needed. Here's my new take. I'm not bring Cpt Marvel for anything other than PvP or essential nodes and in a boosted PvP her red if max damaged does hurt as well as her black. I don't think her black is really that great anymore and anything more than 4 red is really a waste except in very niche situations, If I'm building her for Heroics and PvP only what's her best build? I think with her you really have to try to pump out as much damage as possible and to me that's 4/4/5 Gamora's 2 turn stun was really nice in Black Vortex. If the new format is 3x 280 characters her red is going to be a joke since it scales so poorly.