*** Captain Marvel (Modern) ***

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  • OnesOwnGriefOnesOwnGrief Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spoit wrote:
    jojeda654 wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    good god if here yellow proc'd on a normal match 3 she would be so broken even pre-nerf Rags would be gasping. I agree though the yellow doesn't trigger as much as I would want which is why I'm kinda leaning towards 4/5/4

    C.Storm would be so jelly. icon_lol.gif
    Nah, there's no pre-nerf thor or rags to feed it into anymore, so it wouldn't get THAT bad

    Question: does she also have the faster heal times like hulk/wolvie/daken?
    From what I've seen during PvP, no.
  • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    The more I think about it, the more I feel like she's like a vastly inferior version of Psylocke, except with a somewhat interesting passive in exchange for the red/black being more expensive and weaker.
  • Spoit wrote:
    The more I think about it, the more I feel like she's like a vastly inferior version of Psylocke, except with a somewhat interesting passive in exchange for the red/black being more expensive and weaker.

    A better comparison would be that Psylocke is an "Offensive Psylocke", while Marvel is a "Defensive Psylocke".

    Psylocke is clearly offensive-oriented, with emphasis on attack and strike tiles. In contrast, Marvel's power set generally focuses on defensive (or dealing with defensive) maneuvers. Both characters' Red skills output roughly the same amount of damage at maximum potential. Marvel's Black does more upfront damage than Psylocke, but Psylocke deals more long-term damage from the generated attack tile. The primary difference lies each character's third skill. Psylocke's is a marginal skill, while Marvel's is potentially devastating. Generating 8 AP as a reactive from an incoming hit can be easily game-changing.

    Case in point, one example would be: Marvel covers Red and Black for Deadpool. Marvel takes an incoming attack to generate Red for Deadpool to all-but-immediately cast "A Little of the Top". Generating upwards of 3k damage for 1 net AP cost (6 skill cost - 5 gained from Energy Absorption hit) is quite efficient.

    Marvel's power lies as a defensive specialist, just like Hulk.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm really torn on how to build Marvel. I keep going back and forth from 3/5/5 or 4/5/4.

    Here's my Pro/Con

    3/5/5
    Pro's
    Gives black on yellow which in turn allows you to cast black quicker

    Con's
    Red is weakened and due to it's low cost AI will always cast it


    4/5/4
    Pro's
    Red has extra dmg and you can spam it

    Con's
    Due to not gaining black from dmg, black is much slower


    So I guess that's it. Do I opt for a harder hitting red, or a potentially faster black?

    The upgrade from 4 black to 5 black is too much to deny. However, a 3/5/5 build is only hinder defensively, on offense it's the better build, but since Marvel is purely defense anyway I'm not so sure.

    So do I opt for an extra 600 dmg on red, or the ability to create black AP at the cost of 600 dmg?
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    answered my own question. The 600 dmg difference while huge, is dwarfed when it comes to how much quicker 3/5/5 allows you to cast black. For every time a 4/5/4 can cast black, 3/5/5 could probably cast it twice, assuming dmg taken. That's 4 turns worth of dmg from a 4/5/4 red to a 3/5/5 red.

    I ran models where I assumed you would get 1, 2, or3 red and black AP per turn, and assumed each turn Marvel took enough dmg to trigger the passive.

    In every scenario 3/5/5 out dmg 4/5/4 after the first casting of red. The black just accumulates so quickly that a 4/5/4 cannot compete with how fast a 3/5/5 can cast black. This all assumes though that Marvel's passive triggers. If not, well than 5/5/4 is the better build, but I have been official converted to 3/5/5, because if you start hitting her, the red isn't much compared to 4/5/4 but when she starts hitting you with black....ouch.
  • vudu3vudu3 Posts: 928 Critical Contributor
    Does the change to cMags affect Capt Marvel's best build?

    Marvel's primarily a PVE character and cMags is a fairly common opponent in PVE. If Marvel has 5 in Photonic Blasts (red) it will completely nutralize cMags' Coercive Field (yellow). I'm just not sure if it's worth giving up 5 in Hypersonic Punch (black) or Energy Absorption (yellow).
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    5 red is not worth the upgrade. Between tile matching and red's minimum 3 defensive tiles destroyed it wouldn't take much effort to get rid of them with less than 5. Having just dealt with her in PvP i can say I was impressed. I feared the 3/5/5 Marvel's, I wasn't too afraid of the 4/5/4's That black is lethal and 3/5/5 help you get there. Especially if you have a back up black user like X-Force or Pun, you can just let her take damage as you smoke everyone.
  • vudu3 wrote:
    Does the change to cMags affect Capt Marvel's best build?

    Marvel's primarily a PVE character and cMags is a fairly common opponent in PVE. If Marvel has 5 in Photonic Blasts (red) it will completely nutralize cMags' Coercive Field (yellow). I'm just not sure if it's worth giving up 5 in Hypersonic Punch (black) or Energy Absorption (yellow).
    I too was thinking this and have come across cMags a few times since the update and there is nothing worse then having all of your CD and strike tiles changed to protect tiles. Random my tinykitty butt!
  • I don't understand why doesn't kill special tiles period instead of just defensive. It would make her so much more usable.
  • zonatahuntzonatahunt Posts: 214 Tile Toppler
    Seeing as how Captain Marvel will have the next PvP after Beast, I thought it'd be a good time to discuss her build (seeing as how one key player in the game has undergone a big change).

    Because CMags has turned out to be quite viable in the game, even after his nerf, I decided to build my Captain Marvel as a defensive character. I never thought I'd use her a ton in the game, but instead against key characters, and that's how it appears it'll be for me. My build for her right now is 5/3/4. I'm missing one cover to max her, but really my intent is to get her to 5/5/3. It's undeniable how beneficial the jump from 4 to 5 is with regard to her black. The damage is much more and a two-turn stun can mean a match if played right. However, most builds I see for her are 3/5/5. I understand it, but for me her red at 5 is key. With both CMags, Falcon, and Loki capable of spamming the hell out of a board with protect tiles, having her red at 3 would do little to reduce the enemy team's protection gained from so many tiles left. Including her in battles that have those three opponents would be huge if she instantly knocked out all the protect tiles and then gained AP from any resulting cascades.

    What do all of you think? Seeing as how the last post made to her character thread took place well before CMag's alteration, I think it's worth re-thinking her build. I rally for 5/5/3, but I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts.
  • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    the only time that protect.png are ever really a concern is the super-scaled PvE ones from bullseye, otherwise they fall into 2 catagories: spam powers like falcon or gold bagman, which are usually weak enough that they can be pretty much ignored, and as long as you have a board shaker like LT or x-force, you'll be able to destroy enough of them that it's negligible anyway. Or stronger, lower count ones like LC or IW (not that you'll ever see baglady), where 3 tiles of destruction is more than enough anyway.

    Hell even with gold bagman, you're not likely to have much more than 3 enemy tiles out anyway.
  • DayvDayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's getting easier to find good black skills, so I'm considering running her as 5/3/5 and using the black AP to fuel other skills like Surgical Strike...

    I do think protect tiles are starting to become a little more prevalent, and I figure if I'm going to nerf her black I might as well drop it all the way to 3 so I can give CM that niche use of smashing all protect tiles.
  • zonatahunt wrote:
    Seeing as how Captain Marvel will have the next PvP after Beast, I thought it'd be a good time to discuss her build (seeing as how one key player in the game has undergone a big change).

    Because CMags has turned out to be quite viable in the game, even after his nerf, I decided to build my Captain Marvel as a defensive character. I never thought I'd use her a ton in the game, but instead against key characters, and that's how it appears it'll be for me. My build for her right now is 5/3/4. I'm missing one cover to max her, but really my intent is to get her to 5/5/3. It's undeniable how beneficial the jump from 4 to 5 is with regard to her black. The damage is much more and a two-turn stun can mean a match if played right. However, most builds I see for her are 3/5/5. I understand it, but for me her red at 5 is key. With both CMags, Falcon, and Loki capable of spamming the hell out of a board with protect tiles, having her red at 3 would do little to reduce the enemy team's protection gained from so many tiles left. Including her in battles that have those three opponents would be huge if she instantly knocked out all the protect tiles and then gained AP from any resulting cascades.

    What do all of you think? Seeing as how the last post made to her character thread took place well before CMag's alteration, I think it's worth re-thinking her build. I rally for 5/5/3, but I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts.
    People will have their own opinions on Red and Black.

    But having 5 in yellow is mandatory.

    Captain Marvel is not a "Kill the enemy team by herself" type of character.

    She is remarkably similar to Hulk.

    You put her, like Hulk, on your team with the objective to tank as many hits as possible. This will trigger her passive eventually and grab 5 red and 3 black for your team.

    That is incredible.

    So you put her on a team with either a heavy black user, like Xforce or Black Panther, and you run her at 5/3/5.

    Or you put her on a team with a heavy red user (granted not many of those right now) like...Punisher?
    Captain America or Colossus would definitely be interesting. However, Colossus would need to activate his yellow prior to using red, but not before allowing Captain marvel to tank to grab the necessary red (very back and forth tanking may be annoying to handle).

    Other characters she could act as a battery for:

    Human Torch. Both Red and black abilities. However, this may be the lowest sustainability team possible.

    Magneto. Very nice red and a lot of board shake to end the game quickly.

    Patch. But this, again, falls under the category of how do you get Captain Marvel in front of the attacks to generate the red, but then give Patch enough tiles to make TBTI worth it?

    Psylocke. This would be a decent match, since she, like Punisher, has a red and a black to fuel.

    She Hulk. But why? Why level She Hulk?

    I think you get the point.

    If you aren't going to use her passive as a battery, you may as well not even use her. Her red and black are decent but neither is really worth building a team around.
  • QuebbsterQuebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    The Hells Kitchen node in Prodigal Sun has really made me happy I have a maxed Captain Marvel. Being able to destroy protect tiles can be very useful against high level enemies like Spider-man and Bullseye.
    My favorite partner for her is Human Torch (preferably backed by Daken), but if he's not available then Psylocke works very well too - she can make very good use of the AP Captain Marvel generates.
  • Marc_SpectorMarc_Spector Posts: 536 Critical Contributor
    I'm on the cusp of finishing off my Captain Marvel with her upcoming versus rewards, and, now that she's been available for a few months, I was curious to hear other people's opinions on 4/4/5 vs. 3/5/5. (I do agree that 5 yellow seems non-negotiable in either a defensive or offensive build.)

    I've been leaning towards 4/4/5, as her red seems severely tinykitty to the point of "why ever use this" at just 3 covers, vs almost doubling the damage at 4 covers (+602 dmg) -- whereas the jump from 4->5 black is 334 dmg + that 2nd turn of stun.

    Has anyone tried out both builds, and can comment on the usefulness of each?
    Thanks!! icon_e_smile.gif
  • vudu3vudu3 Posts: 928 Critical Contributor
    In a vacuum it boils down to what you already said--do you want the extra 600 damage from red or the extra 300 damage plus one additional turn of stun from black? Pick your favorite.

    However, since we don't live in a vacuum you need to consider who you pair her with. If you always pair her with X-Force then you're not going to use her black very often so you may be better with the extra damage from red. If you always pair her with Thor--any version--then 5 in black is probably a better option for you.
  • john1620bjohn1620b Age Unconfirmed Posts: 367
    I'm on the cusp of finishing off my Captain Marvel with her upcoming versus rewards, and, now that she's been available for a few months, I was curious to hear other people's opinions on 4/4/5 vs. 3/5/5. (I do agree that 5 yellow seems non-negotiable in either a defensive or offensive build.)

    I've been leaning towards 4/4/5, as her red seems severely tinykitty to the point of "why ever use this" at just 3 covers, vs almost doubling the damage at 4 covers (+602 dmg) -- whereas the jump from 4->5 black is 334 dmg + that 2nd turn of stun.

    Has anyone tried out both builds, and can comment on the usefulness of each?
    Thanks!! icon_e_smile.gif
    I've 4/5/4 and 3/5/5, so I can extrapolate from that.

    Originally I went with 4/5/4, to have a more-useful red. I still believe it's a viable build, since her yellow doesn't activate all that often. I found it more useful for PvE, especially when she's super-buffed (since it's even harder to activate yellow in that instance, and her red does decent damage).

    The problem is that her damage-to-AP ratio is still not great, even at 4 red covers. Devil Dino does way better damage for the same 7 red AP, and there are many other good red AP abilities that it can't compete with (cMags, HT, Colossus, 4* Thor, etc.). So while 4 red is OK damage, I didn't find myself using it all that often, unless she was the only red-user in the team. Even then, 900-ish damage for 7 AP can get that extra damage you need to finish off a character before they launch an ability.

    That's why I changed her to 3/5/5. It's also more useful for PvP, since a 5-yellow Captain Marvel is a little more scary than a 4-yellow one, especially when paired with another powerful black user like X-Force. It's not a huge deterrant, but it might win you a defensive win or two if people hit her and activate her yellow.

    I'd still probably recommend 3/5/5 over 4/4/5, since that extra turn of stun can be really useful in the right situation. The extra damage on red is generally not as useful, in my experience.
  • Marc_SpectorMarc_Spector Posts: 536 Critical Contributor
    thanks for the perspective, vudu & john! The red even at 4 does seem more underwhelming when considering the AP to dmg ratio -- and yes, I could/would likely have her tanking all her colors to generate red for someone else like Thor.

    Who were a few of your favorite partners to use with her in PVE/PVP?
  • KolenceKolence Posts: 633 Critical Contributor
    Patch works with her the same way as with Hulk. All 3 together are even better.
    At lower points, Spidey + GSBW + Marvel is also a fun rainbow team.
  • john1620bjohn1620b Age Unconfirmed Posts: 367
    I run X-Force with Hulk and Captain Marvel in PvE, which isn't a great team, but it's nice to activate both their passives on high damage (and X-Force can use both of the colors generated). Patch would also be a good team member, as Kolence mentions, and I like any character with a better red than Captain Marvel.

    Using her with 3* Captain America is nice, since her red can be used for his shield tosses. Sentry's also kind of fun for PvP -- if people don't watch the order they take down your team, they can get an unexpected Supernova in the face. However, that's not the *best* team to run once you have some better 3*'s or 4*'s maxed.

    Overall, I don't use her often, to be honest. I like her, but she's kind of mid-tier when you have other 3/4*'s maxed.
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