*** Captain Marvel (Modern) ***

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  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    She'll be a beast in the PvP, as she will tank red, yellow, black, and she will be generating black for Surgical Strike and Red for Smite.
  • Marc_SpectorMarc_Spector Posts: 539 Critical Contributor
    thanks, Kolence, john, Phaserhawk! Yeah, I'm really looking forward to trying her out with Hulk/Patch soon.

    I've loved the thought of her generating red for Steve Rogers, although the fact that he'd tank yellow for her turned me against that -- I figure each of her 3 colors that CapMarvel doesn't tank is essentially removing 1/3 of the value of her yellow. Should be useful though in her tourney though.
  • kensterrkensterr Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,277 Chairperson of the Boards
    How's this as an audition for Captain Marvel? Any fanboys here wanting Yvonne to get the role?

    watsYFU.jpg
  • TrisulTrisul Age Unconfirmed Posts: 887 Critical Contributor
    After watching Edge of Tomorrow, my pick is Emily Blunt. Carol Danvers is more attitude than looks in terms of uniqueness, and Blunt's character in that movie was pretty darn Danvers-esque.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    thanks, Kolence, john, Phaserhawk! Yeah, I'm really looking forward to trying her out with Hulk/Patch soon.

    I've loved the thought of her generating red for Steve Rogers, although the fact that he'd tank yellow for her turned me against that -- I figure each of her 3 colors that CapMarvel doesn't tank is essentially removing 1/3 of the value of her yellow. Should be useful though in her tourney though.

    In this PvP she will tank all colors I do believe
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,018 Chairperson of the Boards
    Doing the write up for http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25429 gave me a crazy idea for Capt. Marvel:

    Photonic Blasts - Red 10 AP
    Captain Marvel unleashes the amazing cosmic power of her photonic blasts, damaging herself and overloading her enemy's powers. Converts up to 2 Enemy Protect, Attack, or Strike Tiles into Critical Tiles. Deals 316 Damage if no targets are available. (Deals 1% of her maximum life to her self. Perhaps start at 2% and drop the cost down with covers)
    Level Upgrades
    Level 2: Deals 422 Damage
    Level 3: Converts 3 Enemy Tiles
    Level 4: Deals 705 Damage
    Level 5: Converts All Enemy Tiles
    Max Level: 2241 Damage, all Enemy tiles converted


    *does NOT convert CD tiles

    The self damage is to ensure this ability can't be used as a Team Up.

    As others have posted, a rock paper scissors approach is probably better than just immediately nerfing strong characters. I was asking myself if its unfair that this Marvel would wipe the floor with Blade + Daken or even Storm + CMags and I came to the conclusion of no, not really. She's still pretty tinykitty if the enemy has no special tiles and if you're facing her you don't bring characters that generate a ton of special tiles (or you wait until she's dead before using those abilities). We already partially play around that with Doc Oc and he's in desperate need of some buffs (as long as he isn't drastically overleveled he's a pretty tinykitty counter to Daken).


    Also I would really like to see half the board turn into critical tiles against Storm.
  • KolenceKolence Posts: 678 Critical Contributor
    dkffiv wrote:
    Doing the write up for http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25429 gave me a crazy idea for Capt. Marvel:

    Photonic Blasts - Red 10 AP
    Captain Marvel unleashes the amazing cosmic power of her photonic blasts, damaging herself and overloading her enemy's powers. Converts up to 2 Enemy Protect, Attack, or Strike Tiles into Critical Tiles. Deals 316 Damage if no targets are available. (Deals 1% of her maximum life to her self. Perhaps start at 2% and drop the cost down with covers)
    Level Upgrades
    Level 2: Deals 422 Damage
    Level 3: Converts 3 Enemy Tiles
    Level 4: Deals 705 Damage
    Level 5: Converts All Enemy Tiles
    Max Level: 2241 Damage, all Enemy tiles converted


    *does NOT convert CD tiles

    The self damage is to ensure this ability can't be used as a Team Up.

    As others have posted, a rock paper scissors approach is probably better than just immediately nerfing strong characters. I was asking myself if its unfair that this Marvel would wipe the floor with Blade + Daken or even Storm + CMags and I came to the conclusion of no, not really. She's still pretty tinykitty if the enemy has no special tiles and if you're facing her you don't bring characters that generate a ton of special tiles (or you wait until she's dead before using those abilities). We already partially play around that with Doc Oc and he's in desperate need of some buffs (as long as he isn't drastically overleveled he's a pretty tinykitty counter to Daken).


    Also I would really like to see half the board turn into critical tiles against Storm.

    She's not tinykitty to begin with. You bring her against a team that spams strike tiles so you can get her to generate red/black. For someone else or for herself. If it's for herself, black is decent enough on its own, but red is a little underwhelming. Unless you have some strike tiles of your own, since it is relatively cheap/spammy. That's why she pairs with Patch so well.

    The idea is interesting though. I could see tweaking her red by making it change 1 (maaybe 2) random strike/attack tile into a critical in addition to what it does now. That should make it cause more damage and have a little more utility (watch out IF! icon_lol.gif ) and cascade potential.
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,018 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kolence wrote:
    She's not tinykitty to begin with. You bring her against a team that spams strike tiles so you can get her to generate red/black. For someone else or for herself. If it's for herself, black is decent enough on its own, but red is a little underwhelming. Unless you have some strike tiles of your own, since it is relatively cheap/spammy. That's why she pairs with Patch so well.

    The idea is interesting though. I could see tweaking her red by making it change 1 (maaybe 2) random strike/attack tile into a critical in addition to what it does now. That should make it cause more damage and have a little more utility (watch out IF! icon_lol.gif ) and cascade potential.

    Unless she's intentionally underleveled, taking 695+ damage against same level opponent's is difficult (even with strike tiles). Hulk only needs to take 574 damage (Marvel needs to take 21% more damage!). Granted you can force the opponent to gain that many strike tiles with Patch but her life total is a lot lower than Hulk and she doesn't have the faster healing that he does. Anger + strike tiles is a lot more effective than Photon Blast spam too.

    Marvel's current specialty is that she can remove protect tiles and there are very few characters that even create them. If you have the opportunity to destroy multiple protect tiles I feel it should nearly one shot the enemy (sorta like what Squirrel Girl's purple tries to do. I feel SG's purp could use a damage boost too).
  • Can anyone summarize why 3-5-5 is winning so badly over 4-4-5 in the votes? Is a little more damage and +1 turn stun on Black so much preferable to a lot more damage on red?

    Mainly asking because I just got top 10 in the PVP and need to choose between the two builds.
  • kalirion wrote:
    Can anyone summarize why 3-5-5 is winning so badly over 4-4-5 in the votes? Is a little more damage and +1 turn stun on Black so much preferable to a lot more damage on red?

    Mainly asking because I just got top 10 in the PVP and need to choose between the two builds.
    It's just because her red is really, really bad, except when you need to use her against opponents like Magneto/Spiderman, etc...

    A lot of people use her to feed other red users like Cap or Thor ****. And put her red to 4 will just add 500 damage, which will not change the fact that you will find a lot of better red users.
  • QuebbsterQuebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    sk8-45 wrote:
    kalirion wrote:
    Can anyone summarize why 3-5-5 is winning so badly over 4-4-5 in the votes? Is a little more damage and +1 turn stun on Black so much preferable to a lot more damage on red?

    Mainly asking because I just got top 10 in the PVP and need to choose between the two builds.
    It's just because her red is really, really bad, except when you need to use her against opponents like Magneto/Spiderman, etc...

    A lot of people use her to feed other red users like Cap or Thor ****. And put her red to 4 will just add 500 damage, which will not change the fact that you will find a lot of better red users.
    Yup, this. I tend to run her with Torch and Daken so she fuels Fireballs and Infernos. In the end, the two turn stun is more likley to have an effect on the battle than the extra damage from red.
  • One thing I have not seen mentioned yet is that she can tank for cyclops similar to how daken tanks for blade. if she has priority she will tank all of his colors. this is actually a decent combo as a result. She generates black and red for him while tanking. If I had the iso I would try it out lol.
  • Marc_SpectorMarc_Spector Posts: 539 Critical Contributor
    kalirion wrote:
    Can anyone summarize why 3-5-5 is winning so badly over 4-4-5 in the votes? Is a little more damage and +1 turn stun on Black so much preferable to a lot more damage on red? Mainly asking because I just got top 10 in the PVP and need to choose between the two builds.


    I had 4/4/5 (@ 166), then tried 3/5/5. I went back to 4/4/5, and am staying there.

    Why? Because my CMarvel wasn't generating red for others -- only herself. When I do use her she's tanking all 3 of her colors, and that red AP built up quickly and frequently. Completely ignoring the shield-destroying mechanic, spamming a few uses of a cheap ~1400dmg attack was a lot better than spamming a few uses of a cheap ~700dmg attack.

    When I had 5 black, I found the dmg increase from 4->5 covers far less noticeable, and don't remember a single occasion where a 2nd turn of the stun would've completely turned a bad match around (vs. a 1 turn stun). For facing react-on-hit characters like Hulk, the 1 turn stun was just fine for being able to unload several powers on 'em in a single turn with no ill effect.

    I agree that her red isn't great -- but dropping it from 4 covers to 3 felt like going from "hmm, good!" to "useless."
  • kalirion wrote:
    Can anyone summarize why 3-5-5 is winning so badly over 4-4-5 in the votes? Is a little more damage and +1 turn stun on Black so much preferable to a lot more damage on red? Mainly asking because I just got top 10 in the PVP and need to choose between the two builds.


    I had 4/4/5 (@ 166), then tried 3/5/5. I went back to 4/4/5, and am staying there.

    Why? Because my CMarvel wasn't generating red for others -- only herself. When I do use her she's tanking all 3 of her colors, and that red AP built up quickly and frequently. Completely ignoring the shield-destroying mechanic, spamming a few uses of a cheap ~1400dmg attack was a lot better than spamming a few uses of a cheap ~700dmg attack.

    When I had 5 black, I found the dmg increase from 4->5 covers far less noticeable, and don't remember a single occasion where a 2nd turn of the stun would've completely turned a bad match around (vs. a 1 turn stun). For facing react-on-hit characters like Hulk, the 1 turn stun was just fine for being able to unload several powers on 'em in a single turn with no ill effect.

    I agree that her red isn't great -- but dropping it from 4 covers to 3 felt like going from "hmm, good!" to "useless."

    Had to bold out the points I felt were strong! Thanks for this tip as I finally just got this hero from the "Krakadoom" event and was unsure about what would be the best build for her. I think your build preference is more balanced, and it will be a safe one for me to aim. If she only tanks the red for herself than it would be a pointless to try to match her for characters that was supposed to feed off her red.

    4/4/5 it is then. Had it not been for the Krakadoom event I probably would have to wait a long time as she is one of those heros that ever seldom dropped for me and so it's nice to go for a build I can also easily change if it doesn't work out.
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,018 Chairperson of the Boards
    kalirion wrote:
    Can anyone summarize why 3-5-5 is winning so badly over 4-4-5 in the votes? Is a little more damage and +1 turn stun on Black so much preferable to a lot more damage on red? Mainly asking because I just got top 10 in the PVP and need to choose between the two builds.


    I had 4/4/5 (@ 166), then tried 3/5/5. I went back to 4/4/5, and am staying there.

    Why? Because my CMarvel wasn't generating red for others -- only herself. When I do use her she's tanking all 3 of her colors, and that red AP built up quickly and frequently. Completely ignoring the shield-destroying mechanic, spamming a few uses of a cheap ~1400dmg attack was a lot better than spamming a few uses of a cheap ~700dmg attack.

    When I had 5 black, I found the dmg increase from 4->5 covers far less noticeable, and don't remember a single occasion where a 2nd turn of the stun would've completely turned a bad match around (vs. a 1 turn stun). For facing react-on-hit characters like Hulk, the 1 turn stun was just fine for being able to unload several powers on 'em in a single turn with no ill effect.

    I agree that her red isn't great -- but dropping it from 4 covers to 3 felt like going from "hmm, good!" to "useless."

    Overall she's pretty terrible and I don't think I'd ever use her in PvE outside of heroics. In PvP getting hit by a 2 turn stun can be devastating so 3/5/5 has the "potential" to generate more D wins than 4/4/5 (or at the very least force your opponent to use more health kits).
  • dkffiv wrote:
    Overall she's pretty terrible and I don't think I'd ever use her in PvE outside of heroics. In PvP getting hit by a 2 turn stun can be devastating so 3/5/5 has the "potential" to generate more D wins than 4/4/5 (or at the very least force your opponent to use more health kits).
    I think her value in PvP in general is pretty questionable, and planning a build around it is impractical. If you leave her intentionally under-leveled as a gimmick to fire off her yellow she becomes way too easy to match down and one shot. On the flip side, when she's powered up it becomes extremely difficult for her yellow to work at all. Her red is bad and cheap, so any other red user you bring will likely be compromised on defense, and her black, while decent, isn't a good enough excuse to bring her over other characters unless you're desperate.

    I do think she has some value as an alternate meatshield to The Hulk in PvE. I use her sometimes on those overscaled nodes, particularly those with goon feeders, where you know you're going to take a lot of abuse. As that's her main function, 5 yellow is a must. I advocate 5 black just because it does do decent damage and the two turn stun can come in handy on occasion. I'd rather have that than a little more pop out of her red, since most times I'm inclined to bring a better red user along anyway. I tend to use her red only to nuke a few Bullseye protect tiles or to finish off people on the cheap in an emergency. The extra damage bump at 4 covers isn't anything to write home about, and most of the time it isn't going to matter. Even if you cast it twice in one fight it's still only like 1200 extra. Whoopie. And 5 red is so situational as to not really be worth considering. Outside of Falcon and CMags, nobody puts out enough protect tiles for it to really be relevant, and even in those cases you can usually match away a few easily, blast three with her red, and mostly be okay.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm starting to wonder if 4/4/5 might actually be the most optimal build.

    You get an extra 600 dmg on red which is very spammable and you lose 334 on black, the biggest issue to me is the loss of the extra turn of stun, however....

    I think it's safe to say you get about a 2 to 1 if not more ratio of using her red to black so that 1 extra turn stun in theory is costing you an extra 870 dmg.

    602x2=1200
    1204-334=870

    To me the question isn't whether you could do more damage with a free turn, it's is stunning someone 2 turns needed.

    Here's my new take. I'm not bring Cpt Marvel for anything other than PvP or essential nodes and in a boosted PvP her red if max damaged does hurt as well as her black. I don't think her black is really that great anymore and anything more than 4 red is really a waste except in very niche situations,

    If I'm building her for Heroics and PvP only what's her best build? I think with her you really have to try to pump out as much damage as possible and to me that's 4/4/5
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,018 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I'm starting to wonder if 4/4/5 might actually be the most optimal build.

    You get an extra 600 dmg on red which is very spammable and you lose 334 on black, the biggest issue to me is the loss of the extra turn of stun, however....

    I think it's safe to say you get about a 2 to 1 if not more ratio of using her red to black so that 1 extra turn stun in theory is costing you an extra 870 dmg.

    602x2=1200
    1204-334=870

    To me the question isn't whether you could do more damage with a free turn, it's is stunning someone 2 turns needed.

    Here's my new take. I'm not bring Cpt Marvel for anything other than PvP or essential nodes and in a boosted PvP her red if max damaged does hurt as well as her black. I don't think her black is really that great anymore and anything more than 4 red is really a waste except in very niche situations,

    If I'm building her for Heroics and PvP only what's her best build? I think with her you really have to try to pump out as much damage as possible and to me that's 4/4/5

    Gamora's 2 turn stun was really nice in Black Vortex. If the new format is 3x 280 characters her red is going to be a joke since it scales so poorly.
  • optimus2861optimus2861 Posts: 1,191 Chairperson of the Boards
    dkffiv wrote:
    Unless she's intentionally underleveled, taking 695+ damage against same level opponent's is difficult (even with strike tiles). Hulk only needs to take 574 damage (Marvel needs to take 21% more damage!). Granted you can force the opponent to gain that many strike tiles with Patch but her life total is a lot lower than Hulk and she doesn't have the faster healing that he does. Anger + strike tiles is a lot more effective than Photon Blast spam too.

    Marvel's current specialty is that she can remove protect tiles and there are very few characters that even create them.
    I ran head-first into this in SHIELD Sim just last night. Me: Patch + Blade + CMags, all lvl 127. Opponent: Patch + Loki + Cap, all lvl 94 but fully covered. I figured it wouldn't be hard.

    Oy.

    I down Loki first but enemy Patch fired BR. After an exchange of hits, enemy Patch is down and I'm facing Marvel solo.

    Every bloody hit triggered her yellow, so on every subsequent turn she could fire red and/or black (Patch & Loki had left her with some to start). I fired a Mags yellow. The next Marvel red took out every newly-created protect tile. My Mags goes down. My Patch goes down. Only Blade left, and the black matches have dried up. I make a match; energy absorbed; Marvel retaliates with her red, which was still being enhanced by a couple of the remaining BR tiles. My final match-3 barely took her out, and Blade wouldn't have survived another hit.

    Lesson learned.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    dkffiv wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I'm starting to wonder if 4/4/5 might actually be the most optimal build.

    You get an extra 600 dmg on red which is very spammable and you lose 334 on black, the biggest issue to me is the loss of the extra turn of stun, however....

    I think it's safe to say you get about a 2 to 1 if not more ratio of using her red to black so that 1 extra turn stun in theory is costing you an extra 870 dmg.

    602x2=1200
    1204-334=870

    To me the question isn't whether you could do more damage with a free turn, it's is stunning someone 2 turns needed.

    Here's my new take. I'm not bring Cpt Marvel for anything other than PvP or essential nodes and in a boosted PvP her red if max damaged does hurt as well as her black. I don't think her black is really that great anymore and anything more than 4 red is really a waste except in very niche situations,

    If I'm building her for Heroics and PvP only what's her best build? I think with her you really have to try to pump out as much damage as possible and to me that's 4/4/5

    Gamora's 2 turn stun was really nice in Black Vortex. If the new format is 3x 280 characters her red is going to be a joke since it scales so poorly.

    Agreed in most counts, but I did go 4/4/5 and she plays so much better IMO. Extra turn of stun is nice, but unless it's 5 turns or mass stun like gamora most of the time stunning 1 of the 3 doesn't make s bit of difference, and in her last PvP that extra 1k dmg while not game breaking really did make a difference, in short 4/4/5 puts out more dmg than any other build and that's what I want. Same with Gamora, 5/5/3 or 3/5/5 puts out higher dmg sooner, but 5/3/5 does most dmg overall, thus my preference. So while 3/5/5 marvel probably makes more sense, 4/4/5 does more damage
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