*** Daken (Classic) ***

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  • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spoit wrote:
    I'm thinking falcon/daken/and then someone who has a lot of board churn to get random matches to activate their passives. Oddball choice? M Storm

    The problem with falcon/daken is that between them you only have active coverage on 2 colors

    I'm thinking that LazyThor is fine with the two. It's not ideal because the green kinda goes to waste since it takes forever to get enough green online, but him having triple color coverage by himself is pretty sweet.
    Actually, yeah, probably. He can use the yellow and green you collect too!
    (SO need another LT tourney prize)

    EDIT: at 141x3 wouldn't he only tank red though?
  • There could be a pretty large swing in the power of his blue depending on whether or not the blue -> green tiles are selected or random.
  • jojeda654jojeda654 Posts: 1,159 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spoit wrote:
    I'm thinking falcon/daken/and then someone who has a lot of board churn to get random matches to activate their passives. Oddball choice? M Storm

    The problem with falcon/daken is that between them you only have active coverage on 2 colors

    I'm thinking that LazyThor is fine with the two. It's not ideal because the green kinda goes to waste since it takes forever to get enough green online, but him having triple color coverage by himself is pretty sweet.

    Hadn't considered LT. (Partly because mine's still 2/2/4) Black would be the only inactive color.

    I was actually going to suggest Punisher. Use Daken's blue to generate green. Occasionally match yellow to boost Judgement's tiles. With his set up, yellow would be inactive, but you would still benefit from matches.
  • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nah, I think L thor is still better. With falcon's change, the base strength of the strike tiles don't matter too much, so it doesn't matter if it's punisher or daken it's used on. And you can actually use the collected yellow to get more green cascades
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    jojeda654 wrote:
    Spoit wrote:
    I'm thinking falcon/daken/and then someone who has a lot of board churn to get random matches to activate their passives. Oddball choice? M Storm

    The problem with falcon/daken is that between them you only have active coverage on 2 colors

    I'm thinking that LazyThor is fine with the two. It's not ideal because the green kinda goes to waste since it takes forever to get enough green online, but him having triple color coverage by himself is pretty sweet.

    Hadn't considered LT. (Partly because mine's still 2/2/4) Black would be the only inactive color.

    I was actually going to suggest Punisher. Use Daken's blue to generate green. Occasionally match yellow to boost Judgement's tiles. With his set up, yellow would be inactive, but you would still benefit from matches.

    I think Punisher would be too redundant with Daken around: any green matches that you make already give tiles for Falcon to boost, so adding more tiles to the board is overkill. I don't see too many people with green abilities that would be good: Human Torch might be another consideration actually: his abilities all mesh very well with Daken/Falcon. Would be a team of glass cannons, but I can see that being very powerful on offense. Does anyone know how multiple flame jets interact with strike tiles? Do you get the strike tile damage on each jet since it's countdown tile based? Black also seems good when you have a bunch of strike tiles and don't care about your other 3 colors.
  • mischiefmakermischiefmaker Age Unconfirmed Posts: 932
    Nemek wrote:
    The new blue certainly seems interesting. Will be really curious to see how the direct damage and strike demolition damage works out.

    Kind of surprised that it's so cheap....probably won't see crazy numbers at the top end.

    I'm trying to figure out whether it's more of a 'finisher', since it could possibly do a lot of damage, but also leaves you with fewer strike tiles, or if it's something to use periodically through the course of the match, since it's so cheap. Interestingly enough, the AI will likely use it as the latter, meaning it'll be difficult for the AI to save up strike tiles for the long haul.
    Based on everything we know about how abilities scale, blue looks like a monster ability -- something in the neighborhood of 1500 base damage and 800 per strike tile. If we're conservative and use a 10x multiplier on the base ability, that's still 2k total damage for 5 blue.

    Worth noting, though, that his Healing & Heat has a higher cutoff for Heat than the 2* version, and casting blue means you matched blue and are removing blue from the board, so chances are good that using his blue will cost him a fairly significant amount of health.
    Does anyone know how multiple flame jets interact with strike tiles?
    You get the strike tiles on each hit, but only if you have at least 1 green. So if you have two Flame Jets out and 1 AP, the first one benefits from strike, and the second one does nothing (well, it makes a cute poof animation, but that's it).
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nemek wrote:
    The new blue certainly seems interesting. Will be really curious to see how the direct damage and strike demolition damage works out.

    Kind of surprised that it's so cheap....probably won't see crazy numbers at the top end.

    I'm trying to figure out whether it's more of a 'finisher', since it could possibly do a lot of damage, but also leaves you with fewer strike tiles, or if it's something to use periodically through the course of the match, since it's so cheap. Interestingly enough, the AI will likely use it as the latter, meaning it'll be difficult for the AI to save up strike tiles for the long haul.
    Based on everything we know about how abilities scale, blue looks like a monster ability -- something in the neighborhood of 1500 base damage and 800 per strike tile. If we're conservative and use a 10x multiplier on the base ability, that's still 2k total damage for 5 blue.

    Worth noting, though, that his Healing & Heat has a higher cutoff for Heat than the 2* version, and casting blue means you matched blue and are removing blue from the board, so chances are good that using his blue will cost him a fairly significant amount of health.
    Does anyone know how multiple flame jets interact with strike tiles?
    You get the strike tiles on each hit, but only if you have at least 1 green. So if you have two Flame Jets out and 1 AP, the first one benefits from strike, and the second one does nothing (well, it makes a cute poof animation, but that's it).

    Nice, I'm thinking that HT/Daken/Falc will be better than LT/Daken/Falc then. You lose an active yellow, but Thor's yellow seems too slow anyways. Getting flame jets off of 2 match-3 greens seems a lot better anyways.
  • Based on everything we know about how abilities scale, blue looks like a monster ability -- something in the neighborhood of 1500 base damage and 800 per strike tile. If we're conservative and use a 10x multiplier on the base ability, that's still 2k total damage for 5 blue.

    Very unlikely that it'll scale like that. You're presumably assuming that the damage for each portion is going to increase for each level and we already know that's not the case.
  • After reading about what 3* Daken will be capable of, I'm not so interested in him anymore. I would just prefer 2* Daken to get upgraded to a 3rd power, even if it is extremely low level or even a pointless passive, just so I can take him to lvl85.
  • I was thinking Daken, Falcon, Patch. Two healers is annoying to attack, and you have a use for all the green plus two finishers in Blue and Red.
  • Anyone else notice that 3* Daken and Patch are perfect matches, i.e. between the two of them they have all the colors covered? Coincidence? I don't think so icon_razz.gif

    Get ready for a future of PvP matches with 3* Daken/Patch/featured hero which will take at least 5-10 minutes each to burn through all the heals.

    EDIT - I should have said "all colors represented" instead of covered, since neither of them cover blue. Still, that means between the two of them Patch has 4 colors for TBTI. I still suspect we will be seeing a lot of 3* Daken/Patch teams in the future.
  • ZeiramMRZeiramMR Posts: 1,306 Chairperson of the Boards
    So the blue says "friendly strike tiles". So that would mean not just his own tiles, but other characters and Latveria powers too.

    Since I won't have the purple cover immediately that gives me an interesting idea to try as a one-off match. Opposing team with Falcon, your team has Loki. Trickery after a Bird Strike and you have a bunch of strike tiles to chemical reaction.
  • Meto5000Meto5000 Posts: 583
    I didn't realize how awesome Daken was during the 1-2* transition and completely neglected him. Now that his 3* form is nearly released I'd love to make him a part of my team. Here is the lineup I am considering.

    Daken/Falcon/L.Thor
    Theme: Feed the fat man

    Matching green for strike tiles, matching yellow for strike tile buffs, and using both colors to feed two of the most OP abilities in the game.

    Pros:
    * Super quick front end damage, huge back end damage
    * All match damage colors are accounted for
    * Don't need to match blue once you acquire 5 in the color for redwing

    Cons:
    * No black active power
    * Falcon tanks two colors
    * No early nukes
    * A sparse green board to start the match makes it very hard to get going

    Would love to hear about other people's lineups. I've heard HT mentioned, but it seems like you'll need to tiptoe around matching greens instead of hungrily chomping each match 3 to create more glorious strike tiles.
  • I'm hard pressed to think of any meaningful team besides Daken + Falcon + Thor. Daken obviously goes with Falcon, and with these two you'll be collecting yellow and green, and only Thor has that combination of colors at the high end. Punisher and HT would be okay, but not having a yellow power wastes the yellow AP that you'll surely be accumulating.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I just don't see the scaling on blue getting big like most people do as it goes against the flavor of his character. Daken is about grinding out damage and healing, not one shoting people, that being said I'm sure I'll be wrong, if blue does have the damage capability people are thinking, look for huge blow back on the heal/heat, where heat will really hurt if you don't have the blue on the board. You'll want to go 5/3/5 but to stay safe from blue you'll want 3/5/5 but that will hurt your strike tile damage. I have a feeling the probable builds will be

    5/5/3--I love 2* Daken, so having blue is a bonus

    5/3/5--I'm gonna do as much damage is possible I don't care if he dies.

    3/5/5--I'm gonna max the direct damage and stay safe hopefully someone else we get me strike tiles, hell there free right?

    And anything in between

    If the drawbacks from Heal/Heat are not terrible, then 5/3/5 will be a given, and if blue doesn't quite do as much as people thought, then 5/5/3, and if blue is really good, but the drawbacks are really high and the heat really hurts, then I see 3/5/5 kicking in as well.
  • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    Depending on what the blue does as you cover it up, I might consider 4/5/4
  • ColognoisseurColognoisseur Posts: 747 Critical Contributor
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I just don't see the scaling on blue getting big like most people do as it goes against the flavor of his character. Daken is about grinding out damage and healing, not one shoting people, that being said I'm sure I'll be wrong, if blue does have the damage capability people are thinking, look for huge blow back on the heal/heat, where heat will really hurt if you don't have the blue on the board. You'll want to go 5/3/5 but to stay safe from blue you'll want 3/5/5 but that will hurt your strike tile damage. I have a feeling the probable builds will be

    5/5/3--I love 2* Daken, so having blue is a bonus

    5/3/5--I'm gonna do as much damage is possible I don't care if he dies.

    3/5/5--I'm gonna max the direct damage and stay safe hopefully someone else we get me strike tiles, hell there free right?

    And anything in between

    If the drawbacks from Heal/Heat are not terrible, then 5/3/5 will be a given, and if blue doesn't quite do as much as people thought, then 5/5/3, and if blue is really good, but the drawbacks are really high and the heat really hurts, then I see 3/5/5 kicking in as well.

    This is the same conclusion I have also come to I am going to go with an initial build of 5/3/5 to practically see what the drawback of "heat" is as designed. I will be trying him out with a team of Falcon and LT to see if the green and yellow will all lead somewhere especially since holding five blue triggers Redwing and when I want to use the LD effect it is there ready to be used for the same cost.

    If you see me sticking with this team in the PvP which will inevitably follow this that means its working. icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I just don't see the scaling on blue getting big like most people do as it goes against the flavor of his character. Daken is about grinding out damage and healing, not one shoting people, that being said I'm sure I'll be wrong, if blue does have the damage capability people are thinking, look for huge blow back on the heal/heat, where heat will really hurt if you don't have the blue on the board. You'll want to go 5/3/5 but to stay safe from blue you'll want 3/5/5 but that will hurt your strike tile damage. I have a feeling the probable builds will be

    5/5/3--I love 2* Daken, so having blue is a bonus

    5/3/5--I'm gonna do as much damage is possible I don't care if he dies.

    3/5/5--I'm gonna max the direct damage and stay safe hopefully someone else we get me strike tiles, hell there free right?

    And anything in between

    If the drawbacks from Heal/Heat are not terrible, then 5/3/5 will be a given, and if blue doesn't quite do as much as people thought, then 5/5/3, and if blue is really good, but the drawbacks are really high and the heat really hurts, then I see 3/5/5 kicking in as well.

    I'm thinking that Falcon/Daken synergy is gonna be big, and so I'm personally going to be picking between 5/5/3 and 5/3/5.
  • KelbrisKelbris Posts: 1,051
    5/4/4 looks incredibly viable

    Need to see 4 -> 5 blue first though, but unless blue sucks balls I don't see too much benefit for 5 black instead of 4

    One tile yaaaaay
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kelbris wrote:
    5/4/4 looks incredibly viable

    Need to see 4 -> 5 blue first though, but unless blue sucks balls I don't see too much benefit for 5 black instead of 4

    One tile yaaaaay

    I think 5 purple is just mandatory, I mean you give up 1 whole strike tile, which after leveling him up I'm sure is gonna be at least 100 dmg per tile, hell even if it was 75 per tile, why would you want to deny yourself 75 dmg per match?

    Blue almost seems to feed itself, activate it, turn blue to green, which helps you get another tile match to get the strike tiles back that you just destroyed. I agree if black is as listed and the percentages stay the same, you'll only be losing 174 health per turn vs. getting 5% back 290 health, or 7% back 406 per turn. Where I see blue having a draw back is if it starts to convert too many blue to green, or removes too many strike tiles. However......depending on who you pair him with, losing blue to green might not be bad at all as it could feed LT essentially creating a green battery generator. To me the only reason I can see blue sucking and not wanting to go all in vs. black is if it removes too much offense off the table for what it does. I mean if it hits for say 1500 as some reports say, but removes 3 strike tiles, depending on the value of those strike tiles, that could cost you more damage in the long wrong then up front. Regardless, his a much needed character. And I'll say this again as well, if/when we ever get a purple/black/x character then 3* Daken will become a monster because he'll be able to tank those colors for the most part absorbing damage and protecting the activated ability champ.
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