*** Daken (Classic) ***

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Comments

  • Sounds like it destroys one of your strike tiles in exchange for damage. Might even let you choose which one.
  • DayvBang wrote:
    Moral wrote:
    LazyDaken could be balanced by the same mechanic as the Falcon: require a certain amount of AP to be held for strike tiles to generate.
    Apparently they are tweaking his powers to make him less annoying than we might expect. I hope it works out well. And then I hope we don't see any more versions of Wolverine, Daken, or any of the other Wolverine-alikes (X-23, Sabretooth, maybe even Deadpool [yeah, I know, people love him for some reason]) for quite some time. Need more variety!

    Oooh, an all-Wolverine team! Bring on Sabertooth and X-23.

    J/K icon_e_smile.gif
  • ZenBrillig wrote:
    I suspect that it doesn't destroy *all* of them. It looks like it does ~8-10x the value of the strike tile in damage, which is a metric tiny kitty ton of damage. And 5 Blue is very cheap too. I think it's more likely along the lines of :
      Chemical Reaction - Blue 5 AP
      Clears one strike tile for 62 damage
      Level Upgrades
        Level 2: Increases cleared strike tile damage to 75. Level 3: Clears an additional strike tile, cost increased to 6 AP. Level 4: Increases cleared strike tile damage to 86 Level 5: Clears an additional strike tile for a total of three, each for 95 damage. Cost increased to 7 AP.


      Even that might be OP.

      Destroying all strike tiles is OP. Lets be clear your doing damage at a cost of reduced future damage (removal of strike tile). So really the only situations I see this being used is when you know a big board changing move is going off next turn (tiles will be destroyed anyways) or as a finishing move. Also remember that his healing is now tied to blue tile thus making collecting blue AP through matches a risk. Essentially you trading health and strike damage for immediate damage.

      However assuming all covers increase damage only, damage is increased per cover by a static amount so without having a second data set its impossible to say what damage it will do with 5 covers. If for example at one cover it did 64, then two 75, three 86, four 97, five 108. Since the average multiplier of a base lvl 5 ability at its max lvl damage is about 6.24x. Then the damage per tile removed would be 674. A board has 64 tiles with 7 types meaning on average 9 will be red and therefore 9 could be strike tiles then it would only do 6,066 damage. 6,066 damage for 5 Blue AP is quite OP. 1,213 damage per AP would make it 3 times better then even the best moves in the game. So I highly doubt it will affect all strike tiles.

      That said 3x95 at base lvl is IMO underpowered at 7 AP. Again scaling that to max lvl its about 593 per tile or 1,778 damage or 254 damage per AP. This is kind of low end considering your trade strike tiles and health (collecting blue) to do it. So I would execpt it to either affect more tiles or do more damage. So the damage ZenBrillig posted is good with 4 tiles IMO or needs to be about 120 base lvl damage 5 covers. This would ensure all three abilities have a strong arguement for them and essentially any build would be good.
    • Rorex wrote:
      That said 3x95 at base lvl is IMO underpowered at 7 AP. Again scaling that to max lvl its about 593 per tile or 1,778 damage or 254 damage per AP. This is kind of low end considering your trade strike tiles and health (collecting blue) to do it. So I would execpt it to either affect more tiles or do more damage. So the damage ZenBrillig posted is good with 4 tiles IMO or needs to be about 120 base lvl damage 5 covers. This would ensure all three abilities have a strong arguement for them and essentially any build would be good.

      You're right, I hadn't considered the downside of collecting blue - so more power is probably in order, maybe +1 tiles destroyed all around.
    • TheHueyFreemanTheHueyFreeman Age Unconfirmed Posts: 472 Mover and Shaker
      Tile damage: 10/11/12/67/52/60
        Chemical Reaction - Blue 5 AP
        CLASSIFIED
        Level Upgrades
          Level 2: Increases cleared strike tile damage to 75. Level 3: ??? Level 4: ??? Level 5: ???

        *Notices ability covers are black, purple, and blue. Then notices strongest tile damage color is green while the the one for blue is weak.*

        Wait... What?!?
      • The question on blue is how many strike tiles it clears. At level 2 it does 75 damage per cleared strike tile, so if it can clear them all, that's instant kill on someone with Daken's base HP (760) with 10 strike tiles, which isn't really very hard to get. Of course, there's probably a limit to how many it clears, but we're missing that piece of information due to his ability being classified.

        It also seems like his strike tiles must be relatively weak, because if a strike tile has a strength of 10 damage, it'd rarely be worth it to blow it up for 75 damage (that's 7.5 hits) and it costs you some AP to blow them up in the first place. So maybe they actually realize Daken 2*'s strike tiles are way too strong when they're allowed to go above level 69 and lowered Daken 3*'s strike tiles accordingly? Again that's not something we can know for sure because the key part (strike tile strength) is classified.
      • Phantron wrote:
        Again that's not something we can know for sure because the key part (strike tile strength) is classified.

        The information in the first post is incorrect? Says base strength is 7, so at max level (7 * 1.4 * 6.25) = around 61 strength strike tiles.
      • IceIXIceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 3,364 Site Admin
        ZenBrillig wrote:
        The information in the first post is incorrect? Says base strength is 7, so at max level (7 * 1.4 * 6.25) = around 61 strength strike tiles.
        Could be. Do remember that anything in the OP is prerelease info and could change. So it's not that it's incorrect, it's just not "true" till the character is released.
      • Phantron wrote:
        The question on blue is how many strike tiles it clears. At level 2 it does 75 damage per cleared strike tile, so if it can clear them all, that's instant kill on someone with Daken's base HP (760) with 10 strike tiles, which isn't really very hard to get. Of course, there's probably a limit to how many it clears, but we're missing that piece of information due to his ability being classified.

        It also seems like his strike tiles must be relatively weak, because if a strike tile has a strength of 10 damage, it'd rarely be worth it to blow it up for 75 damage (that's 7.5 hits) and it costs you some AP to blow them up in the first place. So maybe they actually realize Daken 2*'s strike tiles are way too strong when they're allowed to go above level 69 and lowered Daken 3*'s strike tiles accordingly? Again that's not something we can know for sure because the key part (strike tile strength) is classified.

        I don't know if 10 strike tiles is EASY to get. Kinda hard to keep that on the board. It does make an interesting way to wipe a team with a dakan/xforce team though since xforce drops multiple low damage tiles with a green ability..which means you are creating strike tiles all the time while gathering for his green. 10 blue after the green would have 2 quick ko hits in one turn. I am almost certain they lowered his strike tile damage. It's probably10-20 more damage tops @ max. I mean, no way it should be doing more than, maybe 65-70 damage per a tile. I could see it being 79 though and the Eason why falcon was given that value for his yellow.

        I assume stuff is "classified" so they can still tweek the abilities over the next week. They know what they want, but they still need to get the specifics down to attain that. Depending on so many unknowns he could range from good to god tier:

        1. Does the damage on blue scale?
        2. Do some of the lvls increase blue damage? What are the lvl ups?
        3. How high do the strike tiles go?
        4. What is the official heal value on his heal? (We probably can extrapolate it from his hp if his moves line up the same as before...but that's merely an assumption that it does at this point).
        5. Is there a gimmick to his blue that we cannot see due to "classified?"
        6. Does the blue know to only target his own strike tiles (likely meaning any red strike tiles only...similar to how psylocke's red only counts red strike tiles).
      • Phantron wrote:
        The question on blue is how many strike tiles it clears. At level 2 it does 75 damage per cleared strike tile, so if it can clear them all, that's instant kill on someone with Daken's base HP (760) with 10 strike tiles, which isn't really very hard to get. Of course, there's probably a limit to how many it clears, but we're missing that piece of information due to his ability being classified.

        It also seems like his strike tiles must be relatively weak, because if a strike tile has a strength of 10 damage, it'd rarely be worth it to blow it up for 75 damage (that's 7.5 hits) and it costs you some AP to blow them up in the first place. So maybe they actually realize Daken 2*'s strike tiles are way too strong when they're allowed to go above level 69 and lowered Daken 3*'s strike tiles accordingly? Again that's not something we can know for sure because the key part (strike tile strength) is classified.

        I don't know if 10 strike tiles is EASY to get. Kinda hard to keep that on the board. It does make an interesting way to wipe a team with a dakan/xforce team though since xforce drops multiple low damage tiles with a green ability..which means you are creating strike tiles all the time while gathering for his green. 10 blue after the green would have 2 quick ko hits in one turn. I am almost certain they lowered his strike tile damage. It's probably10-20 more damage tops @ max. I mean, no way it should be doing more than, maybe 65-70 damage per a tile. I could see it being 79 though and the Eason why falcon was given that value for his yellow.

        I assume stuff is "classified" so they can still tweek the abilities over the next week. They know what they want, but they still need to get the specifics down to attain that. Depending on so many unknowns he could range from good to god tier:

        1. Does the damage on blue scale?
        2. Do some of the lvls increase blue damage? What are the lvl ups?
        3. How high do the strike tiles go?
        4. What is the official heal value on his heal? (We probably can extrapolate it from his hp if his moves line up the same as before...but that's merely an assumption that it does at this point).
        5. Is there a gimmick to his blue that we cannot see due to "classified?"
        6. Does the blue know to only target his own strike tiles (likely meaning any red strike tiles only...similar to how psylocke's red only counts red strike tiles).

        Getting a large number of strike tiles is just not very difficult assuming Phermone Rage tops out at 2 strike tiles. I'm guessing it won't blow up all the strike tiles, but without knowing how many it blows them up with blue, it's hard to make any sense of his ability. The damage it does is certainly overpowered if you're allowed to blow up an arbitarily number of them at once, given this is only its level 2 stats and probably will increase in damage too.

        It almost feels like they took an originally overpowered Daken 3* and distributed his power between Falcon and this new incarnation of Daken. You'd still get crazy synergy for Daken + Falcon, but at least now that ties up two of your 3 guys instead of needing just one guy.
      • tinykitty daken. I hope the blue power weakens his health
      • I posted an idea for an ability for Daken that seems like it may be somewhat similar to what he's ended up with back in January. I think I ought to get some royalties icon_lol.gif

        viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2807
        adamLmpq wrote:
        Or maybe even a passive that does a burst of additional damage when you destroy a strike tile. It would work somewhat like Daredevil's traps except the strike tile wouldn't be replaced. So you can destroy the strike tiles for big damage now or keep them consistent damage over time.
      • Everyone was speculating Falcon/Daken... Now that we have some general specs, what do people think? Falcon does match damage the top row of colors, and Daken the bottom row. it seems Falcon boosts tiles and Daken destroys them or does damage when they are matched?
      • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
        I was thinking I would be able to get covers of him, but thanks to this horrible heroic botch up I won't be getting either. #1 in my sub bract, 386th overall. We have an alliance that constantly is in top 5 and we are at 118
      • Everyone was speculating Falcon/Daken... Now that we have some general specs, what do people think? Falcon does match damage the top row of colors, and Daken the bottom row. it seems Falcon boosts tiles and Daken destroys them or does damage when they are matched?

        Blue is an active ability from what we're told so it's not going to be 'on match' because that'd be passive.

        Since several vital pieces of information is missing it's hard to speculate what Daken's power will be. From a balance point of view I'd hope they realize simply having a Daken 2* that goes to level 141 is a very bad idea (he's been one of the hardest enemies at that level range even without a third ability). No doubt Daken + Falcon will be potent, but at least that takes two guys. As long as it's not like the enemy Daken 2* that can often take out an entire team of equally high levels by himself it's probably within acceptable limits of power creep, especially given Falcon just empowered a whole mess of otherwise weak characters too.
      • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
        I'm thinking falcon/daken/and then someone who has a lot of board churn to get random matches to activate their passives. Oddball choice? M Storm

        The problem with falcon/daken is that between them you only have active coverage on 2 colors
      • They just declassified Daken's blue ability.


        Chemical Reaction - Cost - 5 Blue

        Daken springs a trap, but his addiction to "Heat" threatens to push him over the edge. Damages the target for 99, converts two blue tiles to green, and converts up to 2 friendly strike tiles to basic tiles doing 50 damage per strike tile converted.



        I guess this is a way to give him a limited form of direct-damage while also giving you the ability to replace the strike tiles you're giving up, since you're putting more green on the board which can create more red strike tiles.



        Other changes-

        Purple - Level 2 is a 20% boost in strike tile strength.

        Black - Level 1 has Heat kick in if there are fewer than 9 *blue* tiles.
      • mags1587mags1587 Posts: 1,019 Chairperson of the Boards
        I was really hoping his purple passive would only create strike tiles when his team made a match. He is going to be the most annoying character to deal with simply for having to sit through his passives every single turn.
      • NemekNemek Posts: 1,511
        The new blue certainly seems interesting. Will be really curious to see how the direct damage and strike demolition damage works out.

        Kind of surprised that it's so cheap....probably won't see crazy numbers at the top end.

        I'm trying to figure out whether it's more of a 'finisher', since it could possibly do a lot of damage, but also leaves you with fewer strike tiles, or if it's something to use periodically through the course of the match, since it's so cheap. Interestingly enough, the AI will likely use it as the latter, meaning it'll be difficult for the AI to save up strike tiles for the long haul.
      • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
        Spoit wrote:
        I'm thinking falcon/daken/and then someone who has a lot of board churn to get random matches to activate their passives. Oddball choice? M Storm

        The problem with falcon/daken is that between them you only have active coverage on 2 colors

        I'm thinking that LazyThor is fine with the two. It's not ideal because the green kinda goes to waste since it takes forever to get enough green online, but him having triple color coverage by himself is pretty sweet.
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