PVP Supports: Feedback Thread

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Comments

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Tony_Foot said:
    Are we really complaining about the only two useful 1s that have been boosted together for the only time I can remember, when MThor has been left running free for years decimating other strategies with out a god boost. Or some of the bonkers ascended 4 we are all now chasing down.

    The biggest issue with the game is people just cannot stand losing at all. They factor the play time to not lose.

    It didn't matter at all that they were boosted together.

    That people can't stand losing is besides the point. It isn't a competition when the AI can beat you without doing anything. This isn't about losing a few more matches. It's about the match being over before it even begins.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,797 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 4 July 2024, 00:09

    @Borstock said:

    @Tony_Foot said:
    Are we really complaining about the only two useful 1s that have been boosted together for the only time I can remember, when MThor has been left running free for years decimating other strategies with out a god boost. Or some of the bonkers ascended 4 we are all now chasing down.

    The biggest issue with the game is people just cannot stand losing at all. They factor the play time to not lose.

    It didn't matter at all that they were boosted together.

    That people can't stand losing is besides the point. It isn't a competition when the AI can beat you without doing anything. This isn't about losing a few more matches. It's about the match being over before it even begins.

    The technical term for this is "non-game," and it's what this change has created a lot more of.

    If you and your opponent both have optimized support stacks with high level characters, the game is won or lost based on whose supports trigger, before anyone even makes a move. This SUCKS. At least give us the illusion of agency -- make me feel like I'm accomplishing something when I win.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,253 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think the biggest mistake they have made is running this for a Season. If people feel this is affecting them negatively they are far less likely to give it a chance. I don't know how plausible it is to do but it would have been better to have run a mini Supports season (say a week long) and maybe then had a truncated Season after that so players could still play normally and they had time to analyse data from the Supports enabled stuff.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,253 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LHammer said:

    @slidecage said:
    You don't have to memorize anything. Just pick your team and play

    Yeah, you kind of do because picking your team and playing what previously would have been a manageable fight can now result in a massacre because you didn't understand what happens when Yelena has Uncle Ben's Rice equipped on a team with Star Brand.

    Uncle Ben's rice gives you +2 spicy when applied to Mexicans but gets a 14% multiplier to any team equipped with it where at least one character is from Uranus.

  • plizard
    plizard Posts: 5 Just Dropped In

    @entrailbucket said:

    I'd be fine with removing names, it just wouldn't do the thing you want it to do. It'd make life a little more difficult for the coordinators but wouldn't come close to stopping them. It really wouldn't affect the way I play at all.

    But then you wouldn't be able to hit a player 10x in a row. Where's the fun in that?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,797 Chairperson of the Boards

    @plizard said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I'd be fine with removing names, it just wouldn't do the thing you want it to do. It'd make life a little more difficult for the coordinators but wouldn't come close to stopping them. It really wouldn't affect the way I play at all.

    But then you wouldn't be able to hit a player 10x in a row. Where's the fun in that?

    I play in s2. If somebody's out and they've got points, I don't need to see their name to find them 10x in a row!

  • plizard
    plizard Posts: 5 Just Dropped In

    But what if you want to keep hitting that same person until they are only worth 5 points out of spite? Asking for a friend

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,797 Chairperson of the Boards

    @plizard said:
    But what if you want to keep hitting that same person until they are only worth 5 points out of spite? Asking for a friend

    Well, if they're only worth 5 points to you, then you have too many points. Hitting someone for 5 points is just gifting them a good retal -- not very spiteful.

    Instead you should dump 500 or so, so you can start hitting them for 40 or 50 again.

  • plizard
    plizard Posts: 5 Just Dropped In
    edited 4 July 2024, 23:00

    That's too much effort. I'm just playing to 50 wins or 1.2, whichever comes first. But I'm not above hitting the same person over and over to reach either goal.

    That said, I don't think my ability to hit someone like 5x in the span of a few minutes without the AI getting a turn thanks to supports is particularly non-toxic to the game.

  • JoeHandle
    JoeHandle Posts: 500 Critical Contributor

    @entrailbucket said:

    @plizard said:
    But what if you want to keep hitting that same person until they are only worth 5 points out of spite? Asking for a friend

    Well, if they're only worth 5 points to you, then you have too many points. Hitting someone for 5 points is just gifting them a good retal -- not very spiteful.

    Instead you should dump 500 or so, so you can start hitting them for 40 or 50 again.

    If you've broken MMR, dumping breaks the spell, takes you back to 'normal' matchmaking. What's the fun in that?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,797 Chairperson of the Boards

    @JoeHandle said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @plizard said:
    But what if you want to keep hitting that same person until they are only worth 5 points out of spite? Asking for a friend

    Well, if they're only worth 5 points to you, then you have too many points. Hitting someone for 5 points is just gifting them a good retal -- not very spiteful.

    Instead you should dump 500 or so, so you can start hitting them for 40 or 50 again.

    If you've broken MMR, dumping breaks the spell, takes you back to 'normal' matchmaking. What's the fun in that?

    The fun is in smiting one's enemies. What other reason is there to play a Player vs Player game?

  • JoeHandle
    JoeHandle Posts: 500 Critical Contributor

    @entrailbucket said:

    @JoeHandle said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @plizard said:
    But what if you want to keep hitting that same person until they are only worth 5 points out of spite? Asking for a friend

    Well, if they're only worth 5 points to you, then you have too many points. Hitting someone for 5 points is just gifting them a good retal -- not very spiteful.

    Instead you should dump 500 or so, so you can start hitting them for 40 or 50 again.

    If you've broken MMR, dumping breaks the spell, takes you back to 'normal' matchmaking. What's the fun in that?

    The fun is in smiting one's enemies. What other reason is there to play a Player vs Player game?

    Using the PvP mode in a roster management game to farm covers. Who cares about the other names on a screen? (whoops, wasn't supposed to say that part out loud, danggit.)

  • WilliamK1983
    WilliamK1983 Posts: 958 Critical Contributor

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @LHammer said:

    @slidecage said:
    You don't have to memorize anything. Just pick your team and play

    Yeah, you kind of do because picking your team and playing what previously would have been a manageable fight can now result in a massacre because you didn't understand what happens when Yelena has Uncle Ben's Rice equipped on a team with Star Brand.

    Uncle Ben's rice gives you +2 spicy when applied to Mexicans but gets a 14% multiplier to any team equipped with it where at least one character is from Uranus.

    Just Ben's. It's how racism was solved, remember? 🙄

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,797 Chairperson of the Boards

    @JoeHandle said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @JoeHandle said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @plizard said:
    But what if you want to keep hitting that same person until they are only worth 5 points out of spite? Asking for a friend

    Well, if they're only worth 5 points to you, then you have too many points. Hitting someone for 5 points is just gifting them a good retal -- not very spiteful.

    Instead you should dump 500 or so, so you can start hitting them for 40 or 50 again.

    If you've broken MMR, dumping breaks the spell, takes you back to 'normal' matchmaking. What's the fun in that?

    The fun is in smiting one's enemies. What other reason is there to play a Player vs Player game?

    Using the PvP mode in a roster management game to farm covers. Who cares about the other names on a screen? (whoops, wasn't supposed to say that part out loud, danggit.)

    I've never understood MPQ roster management as a goal for its own sake. MPQ covers, supports, boosts, tokens etc, are utilitarian objects whose only use is smashing other people (or, I guess, the AI in PvE).

    It'd be like collecting cars you never drive, or sealed video games or toys you never open -- except in this case your MPQ roster has zero resale value so it's a terrible investment.

    Roster management is only a means to an end, and the end is beating other people with your roster. It doesn't make sense for it to be the end...why not play a harem game or a clicker?

  • JoeHandle
    JoeHandle Posts: 500 Critical Contributor

    @entrailbucket said:

    @JoeHandle said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @JoeHandle said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @plizard said:
    But what if you want to keep hitting that same person until they are only worth 5 points out of spite? Asking for a friend

    Well, if they're only worth 5 points to you, then you have too many points. Hitting someone for 5 points is just gifting them a good retal -- not very spiteful.

    Instead you should dump 500 or so, so you can start hitting them for 40 or 50 again.

    If you've broken MMR, dumping breaks the spell, takes you back to 'normal' matchmaking. What's the fun in that?

    The fun is in smiting one's enemies. What other reason is there to play a Player vs Player game?

    Using the PvP mode in a roster management game to farm covers. Who cares about the other names on a screen? (whoops, wasn't supposed to say that part out loud, danggit.)

    I've never understood MPQ roster management as a goal for its own sake. MPQ covers, supports, boosts, tokens etc, are utilitarian objects whose only use is smashing other people (or, I guess, the AI in PvE).

    It'd be like collecting cars you never drive, or sealed video games or toys you never open -- except in this case your MPQ roster has zero resale value so it's a terrible investment.

    Roster management is only a means to an end, and the end is beating other people with your roster. It doesn't make sense for it to be the end...why not play a harem game or a clicker?

    1. Faux productivity.
    2. You've recycled this post many times over the years; have a macro for it?
    3. "Harem game"? This isn't a ... ? Oh, hell. Some harems wear more spandex than others! ;)
  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,274 Chairperson of the Boards

    So I guess supports can stop insta win powers from working as I learned tonight. Decided to just cheese a dual 672 jugg spidey team with purple ap boosts and some purple ap supports and just drop whales on them. I got enough purple ap, fired mega whales and to my surprise a support activated (I think it was leap frog) and instead of ending the match it left the enemy team still alive, though close enough to dead the I was able to finish them off easily enough.