PVP Supports: Feedback Thread

S0kun

Now that we've had the weekend to sink our teeth into the inaugural PVP Supports enabled Season, let's start a thread dedicated to player feedback to ensure that we're able to make adjustments to the system that makes it enjoyable for everyone.

What's great? What's broken? What's borked? General thoughts?

KGB

For me overall it was great as I reached 25 wins at 900 points without needing any health packs (thank you Lucky and Carol Communicator). But then my PVP is at a level where many of my opponents weren't running maxed L5 supports (some teams only had 1 character with a support on them making me think many players weren't fully aware they could use supports). I also didn't see any teams that were specifically designed around turn 0 AP + Nuke/AOE either during my climb.

Biggest issue is that on the pre-battle screen you can't click on the enemy supports to see what they do when you can't recall exactly what each support does or does at R3 vs R1 vs R5 etc/

KGB

dianetics

Supports aren't balanced for PvP.
If you balance them for PvP they wont be useful in PvE.
If this is the direction you all want to go with it good luck.
You are going to make one segment of this game or the other unhappy.

JoeHandle

Had a ball in the 3Kaine event. Wheeeee.

A point does not trend define. Should be fine tho.

Borstock

I don't have enough thumbs to point down.

bigjojo04

With the amount of supports there are it’s impossible to always know exactly what each one does. Adding an ability to see what buffs they provide either before accepting the match or during the match would be extremely helpful in understanding what is happening in game.

Also, it had been asked months back to be added but still need the search feature with supports in order to find them more easily. It’d be nice to search for the words ‘at start of battle’ and other various things when using them in PvP.

WilliamK1983

Unnecessary change that nobody asked for.

WhiteBomber

Definitely still a bit early to tell, but the increase in diversity and strategy has been overwhelmingly positive for me (but I like running fun teams, not just burning through it).

I'm sure this is already a thing, but if this stays, you'll probably want more reliable ways for people to get supports as well as better ways to engage players with them. Most non competitive players I know don't know much about them and they sure don't spend the time to lab them to determine what works best.

I personally would love to see them added to Simulator since that is the one place you can actually be the most strategic and placement matters less. Either way, thank you for the breathe of fresh air in PVP, once we remove health packs we won't even need a practice mode!

Tony_Foot

More diverse, more strategy. Love it. I'd rather have this than god boost, even more unnecessary with ascended 4* and now supports. Also keeping supports and getting rid of the god boost means if you eat a turn 1 punch in the face it isn't so big.

I would still prefer supports only on attack not defence, allow more punching up and faster matches. It really removed the Mthor problem too.

TheXMan

I also would prefer supports only used on offense. Watching your opponent drop spectacular strategy on the first turn is not fun. If all the AP supports are changed to proc 100%, this is going to get worse. Boosts are only offense so why not supports?

BriMan2222

So far it's made pvp more fun imo

entrailbucket

I guess I'd ask what you want the game to be. It appears that the consensus so far is that players just want to get PvP over with as fast as possible -- that this change would be good if it only applied to offense, so they could win 25 fights in a minute and a half and not have to bother with playing the game.

If you're interested in listening to players who want to "get it over with" rather than enjoying interesting gameplay, why not go all the way and make PvP autowin? They'd love it!

I think if players want to autowin on offense with supports, I should be able to construct a team that autowins on defense too.

The first event was a hodgepodge of all different stuff. Players haven't figured out how to optimize this, so the strategy is still fun. In a month or two everything will be solved and we'll see the same teams every event with the same supports.

I still think this whole thing is a terrible idea. Speeding up an already-fast game is not necessary at all. It reduces diversity and locks out strong but slower characters. I'd prefer the free AP supports be removed from PvE as well.

TheXMan

@entrailbucket said:
I guess I'd ask what you want the game to be. It appears that the consensus so far is that players just want to get PvP over with as fast as possible -- that this change would be good if it only applied to offense, so they could win 25 fights in a minute and a half and not have to bother with playing the game.

If you're interested in listening to players who want to "get it over with" rather than enjoying interesting gameplay, why not go all the way and make PvP autowin? They'd love it!

I think if players want to autowin on offense with supports, I should be able to construct a team that autowins on defense too.

The first event was a hodgepodge of all different stuff. Players haven't figured out how to optimize this, so the strategy is still fun. In a month or two everything will be solved and we'll see the same teams every event with the same supports.

I still think this whole thing is a terrible idea. Speeding up an already-fast game is not necessary at all. It reduces diversity and locks out strong but slower characters. I'd prefer the free AP supports be removed from PvE as well.

Do you use boosts? Or should those also be turned off?

entrailbucket

@TheXMan said:

@entrailbucket said:
I guess I'd ask what you want the game to be. It appears that the consensus so far is that players just want to get PvP over with as fast as possible -- that this change would be good if it only applied to offense, so they could win 25 fights in a minute and a half and not have to bother with playing the game.

If you're interested in listening to players who want to "get it over with" rather than enjoying interesting gameplay, why not go all the way and make PvP autowin? They'd love it!

I think if players want to autowin on offense with supports, I should be able to construct a team that autowins on defense too.

The first event was a hodgepodge of all different stuff. Players haven't figured out how to optimize this, so the strategy is still fun. In a month or two everything will be solved and we'll see the same teams every event with the same supports.

I still think this whole thing is a terrible idea. Speeding up an already-fast game is not necessary at all. It reduces diversity and locks out strong but slower characters. I'd prefer the free AP supports be removed from PvE as well.

Do you use boosts? Or should those also be turned off?

Do you think they should be increased to +6ap per color?

Tony_Foot

Pve is more PvP than the actual PvP. MPQ PvP is like when those clowns on Xbox all gather together to take it in turns killing each other for some meaningless achievement rather than play the game.

Yes I want it over quickly because I only tolerate it for rewards.

entrailbucket

@Tony_Foot said:
Pve is more PvP than the actual PvP. MPQ PvP is like when those clowns on Xbox all gather together to take it in turns killing each other for some meaningless achievement rather than play the game.

Yes I want it over quickly because I only tolerate it for rewards.

Then maybe they should focus on making it fun, rather than making it easy to ignore/skip/autowin?

TheXMan

@entrailbucket said:

@TheXMan said:

@entrailbucket said:
I guess I'd ask what you want the game to be. It appears that the consensus so far is that players just want to get PvP over with as fast as possible -- that this change would be good if it only applied to offense, so they could win 25 fights in a minute and a half and not have to bother with playing the game.

If you're interested in listening to players who want to "get it over with" rather than enjoying interesting gameplay, why not go all the way and make PvP autowin? They'd love it!

I think if players want to autowin on offense with supports, I should be able to construct a team that autowins on defense too.

The first event was a hodgepodge of all different stuff. Players haven't figured out how to optimize this, so the strategy is still fun. In a month or two everything will be solved and we'll see the same teams every event with the same supports.

I still think this whole thing is a terrible idea. Speeding up an already-fast game is not necessary at all. It reduces diversity and locks out strong but slower characters. I'd prefer the free AP supports be removed from PvE as well.

Do you use boosts? Or should those also be turned off?

Do you think they should be increased to +6ap per color?

Nope, I rarely use them and would actually be ok with them off. But I am curious if you think those are ok on offense only but not supports?

entrailbucket

@TheXMan said:

@entrailbucket said:

@TheXMan said:

@entrailbucket said:
I guess I'd ask what you want the game to be. It appears that the consensus so far is that players just want to get PvP over with as fast as possible -- that this change would be good if it only applied to offense, so they could win 25 fights in a minute and a half and not have to bother with playing the game.

If you're interested in listening to players who want to "get it over with" rather than enjoying interesting gameplay, why not go all the way and make PvP autowin? They'd love it!

I think if players want to autowin on offense with supports, I should be able to construct a team that autowins on defense too.

The first event was a hodgepodge of all different stuff. Players haven't figured out how to optimize this, so the strategy is still fun. In a month or two everything will be solved and we'll see the same teams every event with the same supports.

I still think this whole thing is a terrible idea. Speeding up an already-fast game is not necessary at all. It reduces diversity and locks out strong but slower characters. I'd prefer the free AP supports be removed from PvE as well.

Do you use boosts? Or should those also be turned off?

Do you think they should be increased to +6ap per color?

Nope, I rarely use them and would actually be ok with them off. But I am curious if you think those are ok on offense only but not supports?

Haha, sorry! I thought you were trying to "gotcha!" me!

I very very rarely use boosts, never in PvE and in PvP only sometimes, usually to fight one particular player who runs 672/672/672 almost every event. I'd be ok with removing them.

I do think character powers are balanced now with boosts in mind, though. It's why they (mostly) got rid of 2-3AP powers after limiting boosts to two of each type.

I don't understand why they allow supports that basically do the same thing, but I guess this dev team hasn't learned the lessons about cheap powers yet (witness Spidey's old 2AP stun or Mags' 2AP boardshake).

fnedude

One observation, FantastiCar made the match MUCHHHH longer than w/o Supports. Such a Pain in the Butt-icts (PITA).

When speed is essential with snipers or other opponents fighting for points, have an enemy support slow you down is bogus, because you can't do anything to speed it up, and it all depends on if it does/does not activate to lengthen your battle. Which means you can be hit more, loose more points, and rank/position in PVP.

it would suck if Supports in PVP add another way to screw your opponent, "I'll use FantastiCar to prolong the fight..." is a terrible defensive tactic

The_Boogie

@Tony_Foot said:
Pve is more PvP than the actual PvP.

OMG preach - This is the truth! To the majority of the most vocal and willing to spend MPQ players, Story mode is where the real competition exists in the game, to the point where Player A will ask their alliance mates to hit Player B in PvP during their closing hits of PvE so the pop-ups in game will screw up Player B’s chances of finishing optimally.

Versus mode is a place where you can (mostly) only succeed at the highest levels if you cooperate with a large group of like minded people.

For those of us who embrace the “Versus” element of it…we love supports in PvP. Allows us to easier protect the small piece of turf in MPQ where we put our flag in the ground.

Domitronas

This doesn't fix any fundamental issues with supports - no reliable ways to get the support tokens, red iso being scarce and many supports being imbalanced. Same old as with most of the ideas. Great ideas on paper, but implementation is lackluster.