PVP Supports: Feedback Thread

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  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,496 Chairperson of the Boards

    @slidecage said:

    @Phumade said:

    @slidecage said:

    @Scofie said:
    I think there are 2 schools of thought here: Playing for placement and playing for wins. It seems the first group are in general, unhappy with supports in PvP and the second group are, generally happy, though this is based upon one event.

    My view - I was never competing for anything other than T25 at best or T50. For the Trenchcoat event I finished 51st after dropping 2 places in the last seconds. My score was not great, I got hit way more than before, but wins were easier and quicker. I played an extra few matches as a result.

    Overall it was pretty much the same for me. I can see the need for more shields now though and understand how it could be very expensive HP-wise. But the extra rewards from shielding aren't worth the HP to me, so I'll not bother much and I'll take the hits and lost points and hit back a bit more. It's added a bit more thinking and a bit more trying to beat the team in front of me rather just playing with my best characters.

    How is shields very expensive hp wise
    Unless I'm so out of it. Don't you just shield in the last 8 hours (most peoplle
    Unless you don't get hammered as I'm thinking

    How I play
    Day 1 normal
    Day 2 to end normal shield last 8 hours

    Now maybe I'm wrong but if you played day 1 say you got to 900 pts and shield for 8 hours. .. you come up for hits and play wouldn't you be hit faster then you could play

    meaning if say i was 1200 came out of shield. Played a game won 49 points I would think you get hit so many times it wouldn't be worth it

    Or do people play like crazy first day then just apply sheild after shield till the last 8 or less hours and play (then again I would think you be hit faster then you could play (

    Then again maybe I'm wrong and probably are im so wacked out sm at a target and should be working at a meijers

    Shield would cost what 2400 max per event

    I only do like 8 hours on Sunday and don't think I use any rest of week

    Top 100 or top 50 good enough

    Pills are fun 😊

    Spelling mistake and Grammer nightmare due to cold and nokia 100

    O how I hate this Nokia 100 phone

    The main thing that has changed is that hp and shields are now cheap compared to their old scarcity. By this I just mean, the avg t50 player and certainly any t25 or better can afford near unlimited shield hops. No, people don't really play that way in general (3hops every 8hrs). But none of those players are under a strict shield budget and the flood of slots has really eliminated HP gold pressure.

    Must be getting into sucky groups. I take top 50 without shield if I get around 600 or so

    If I wasn't in a group that had a min of 4000 in pvp I doubt I ever use shields

    Like I said before, they can afford unlimited hops. HP is only meaningful in the sense of how many vaults can be bought out. HP doesn't meaningfully matter with respect to shields or health packs.

  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 3,447 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Phumade said:

    @slidecage said:

    @Scofie said:
    I think there are 2 schools of thought here: Playing for placement and playing for wins. It seems the first group are in general, unhappy with supports in PvP and the second group are, generally happy, though this is based upon one event.

    My view - I was never competing for anything other than T25 at best or T50. For the Trenchcoat event I finished 51st after dropping 2 places in the last seconds. My score was not great, I got hit way more than before, but wins were easier and quicker. I played an extra few matches as a result.

    Overall it was pretty much the same for me. I can see the need for more shields now though and understand how it could be very expensive HP-wise. But the extra rewards from shielding aren't worth the HP to me, so I'll not bother much and I'll take the hits and lost points and hit back a bit more. It's added a bit more thinking and a bit more trying to beat the team in front of me rather just playing with my best characters.

    How is shields very expensive hp wise
    Unless I'm so out of it. Don't you just shield in the last 8 hours (most peoplle
    Unless you don't get hammered as I'm thinking

    How I play
    Day 1 normal
    Day 2 to end normal shield last 8 hours

    Now maybe I'm wrong but if you played day 1 say you got to 900 pts and shield for 8 hours. .. you come up for hits and play wouldn't you be hit faster then you could play

    meaning if say i was 1200 came out of shield. Played a game won 49 points I would think you get hit so many times it wouldn't be worth it

    Or do people play like crazy first day then just apply sheild after shield till the last 8 or less hours and play (then again I would think you be hit faster then you could play (

    Then again maybe I'm wrong and probably are im so wacked out sm at a target and should be working at a meijers

    Shield would cost what 2400 max per event

    I only do like 8 hours on Sunday and don't think I use any rest of week

    Top 100 or top 50 good enough

    Pills are fun 😊

    Spelling mistake and Grammer nightmare due to cold and nokia 100

    O how I hate this Nokia 100 phone

    The main thing that has changed is that hp and shields are now cheap compared to their old scarcity. By this I just mean, the avg t50 player and certainly any t25 or better can afford near unlimited shield hops. No, people don't really play that way in general (3hops every 8hrs). But none of those players are under a strict shield budget and the flood of slots has really eliminated HP gold pressure.

    Must be getting into sucky groups. I take top 50 without shield if I get around 600 or so

    Wonder why they never sold shields in the store > @Phumade said:

    @slidecage said:

    @Phumade said:

    @slidecage said:

    @Scofie said:
    I think there are 2 schools of thought here: Playing for placement and playing for wins. It seems the first group are in general, unhappy with supports in PvP and the second group are, generally happy, though this is based upon one event.

    My view - I was never competing for anything other than T25 at best or T50. For the Trenchcoat event I finished 51st after dropping 2 places in the last seconds. My score was not great, I got hit way more than before, but wins were easier and quicker. I played an extra few matches as a result.

    Overall it was pretty much the same for me. I can see the need for more shields now though and understand how it could be very expensive HP-wise. But the extra rewards from shielding aren't worth the HP to me, so I'll not bother much and I'll take the hits and lost points and hit back a bit more. It's added a bit more thinking and a bit more trying to beat the team in front of me rather just playing with my best characters.

    How is shields very expensive hp wise
    Unless I'm so out of it. Don't you just shield in the last 8 hours (most peoplle
    Unless you don't get hammered as I'm thinking

    How I play
    Day 1 normal
    Day 2 to end normal shield last 8 hours

    Now maybe I'm wrong but if you played day 1 say you got to 900 pts and shield for 8 hours. .. you come up for hits and play wouldn't you be hit faster then you could play

    meaning if say i was 1200 came out of shield. Played a game won 49 points I would think you get hit so many times it wouldn't be worth it

    Or do people play like crazy first day then just apply sheild after shield till the last 8 or less hours and play (then again I would think you be hit faster then you could play (

    Then again maybe I'm wrong and probably are im so wacked out sm at a target and should be working at a meijers

    Shield would cost what 2400 max per event

    I only do like 8 hours on Sunday and don't think I use any rest of week

    Top 100 or top 50 good enough

    Pills are fun 😊

    Spelling mistake and Grammer nightmare due to cold and nokia 100

    O how I hate this Nokia 100 phone

    The main thing that has changed is that hp and shields are now cheap compared to their old scarcity. By this I just mean, the avg t50 player and certainly any t25 or better can afford near unlimited shield hops. No, people don't really play that way in general (3hops every 8hrs). But none of those players are under a strict shield budget and the flood of slots has really eliminated HP gold pressure.

    Must be getting into sucky groups. I take top 50 without shield if I get around 600 or so

    If I wasn't in a group that had a min of 4000 in pvp I doubt I ever use shields

    Like I said before, they can afford unlimited hops. HP is only meaningful in the sense of how many vaults can be bought out. HP doesn't meaningfully matter with respect to shields or health packs.

    Oo misread. I get it now
    Thanks for info

    And now I know. Go Joe

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,733 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 2 July 2024, 22:00

    I just fought a Dr. Thor and Chi team that fired Shang's purple it's first three turns. I still won, but come on. That's really what we are doing?

  • WilliamK1983
    WilliamK1983 Posts: 978 Critical Contributor

    At this point I'd be fine with no supports in the game at all.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,820 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Borstock said:
    I just fought a Dr. Thor and Chi team that fired Shang's purple it's first three turns. I still won, but come on. That's really what we are doing?

    I wonder how folks would like it if they started putting (optimized) supports on PvE enemies? Imagine some of the challenge nodes with Infinity Stones...

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,235 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Borstock said:
    I just fought a Dr. Thor and Chi team that fired Shang's purple it's first three turns. I still won, but come on. That's really what we are doing?

    Between this and Spectacular Strategy it seems like we are in need of a support that reduces enemy the enemy Crit multiplier to 0.0 so that all critical matches do 0 damage :)

    KGB

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,820 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Scofie said:
    I think there are 2 schools of thought here: Playing for placement and playing for wins. It seems the first group are in general, unhappy with supports in PvP and the second group are, generally happy, though this is based upon one event.

    My view - I was never competing for anything other than T25 at best or T50. For the Trenchcoat event I finished 51st after dropping 2 places in the last seconds. My score was not great, I got hit way more than before, but wins were easier and quicker. I played an extra few matches as a result.

    Overall it was pretty much the same for me. I can see the need for more shields now though and understand how it could be very expensive HP-wise. But the extra rewards from shielding aren't worth the HP to me, so I'll not bother much and I'll take the hits and lost points and hit back a bit more. It's added a bit more thinking and a bit more trying to beat the team in front of me rather just playing with my best characters.

    I think we're seeing a few different groups of players.

    Competitive high-end PvP players seem to universally hate this. We already play fast, and supports can make fights go faster, but that's often not necessary. Supports can also make fights significantly slower, or cause us to take much more damage, because we're fighting against other high level players with optimized support stacks. It basically just injects a bunch of randomness into almost every fight.

    Noncompetitive players seem more split, and I think it's strictly down to how well they've optimized their own supports, vs how well other players at their tiers have done so. If you're a lower-tier player and you've been paying attention to supports/had the opportunity to earn them/have the key ones levelled up, you're going to have a massive, MASSIVE advantage over more casual players who didn't do those things.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,733 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 3 July 2024, 00:41

    Another fun one: I just lost to that dang 1*-5Spidey three times in a row because boosts let them start with 12 purple.

    I hate this.

  • _TrashPanda
    _TrashPanda Posts: 98 Match Maker

    @dianetics said:

    @obikenobi12 said:
    Yeah i just ocnfirmed this. Maybe the devs should make it so supports don't trigger when the supported character is stunned at the start of a match. I had thought this was happening but it was just because the other enemies didn't proc their starting ap stuff because the % chance didn't go. My bad...sorry if i mislead anyone. Even still, i think Chasm is still a good character to use against teams with the start of battle AP gains since he drains enemy AP and you can use supports that also drain enemies AP too

    We don't want this at all. Either supports are in or out, and we don't want 1 single character able to bypass that. Then we are stuck back to a year ago.

    Agreed. It would suck for Chasm era to come back. He's already still too prevalent in SIM as it is

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,272 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Borstock said:
    I just fought a Dr. Thor and Chi team that fired Shang's purple it's first three turns. I still won, but come on. That's really what we are doing?

    This happened to me also. The only saving grace was that the AI still sucks at using Shang's purple but it still hit hard and hurt and I won by my fingertips.

    At this point I can't decide if this is all crazy fun or terrible disaster.

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,811 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    I wonder how folks would like it if they started putting (optimized) supports on PvE enemies? Imagine some of the challenge nodes with Infinity Stones...

    I would love it. I mean imagine having to actually take notice. I'd also love it if the green node whose name I cannot remember was infinite. So it added 50 levels to the AI every time you cleared it. Make it less about pure speed and who was prepared to go further and use their roster. PVE is a joke at our level now, I'd welcome things to make it harder and not just about speed.

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,811 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Borstock said:
    I just fought a Dr. Thor and Chi team that fired Shang's purple it's first three turns. I still won, but come on. That's really what we are doing?

    This happened to me also. The only saving grace was that the AI still sucks at using Shang's purple but it still hit hard and hurt and I won by my fingertips.

    At this point I can't decide if this is all crazy fun or terrible disaster.

    Or just pick your targets better like 99% of us have too anyway. I easily climbed to goals without hitting a single juggs and Spider team. Just like I have to avoid many other teams pre supports in PVP.

  • JoeHandle
    JoeHandle Posts: 519 Critical Contributor

    @Borstock said:
    Another fun one: I just lost to that dang 1*-5Spidey three times in a row because boosts let them start with 12 purple.

    I hate this.

    Were you forced to take these fights?

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,272 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Tony_Foot said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Borstock said:
    I just fought a Dr. Thor and Chi team that fired Shang's purple it's first three turns. I still won, but come on. That's really what we are doing?

    This happened to me also. The only saving grace was that the AI still sucks at using Shang's purple but it still hit hard and hurt and I won by my fingertips.

    At this point I can't decide if this is all crazy fun or terrible disaster.

    Or just pick your targets better like 99% of us have too anyway. I easily climbed to goals without hitting a single juggs and Spider team. Just like I have to avoid many other teams pre supports in PVP.

    Eh, it happens. I made it too and with a terrible boost week to boot, I was just commenting on a shared experience not wailing into the cold night about the injustice of it all. Like I said, I'm not even decided on this yet, it is waaaay too early to say this is the end of the world.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,272 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Tony_Foot said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I wonder how folks would like it if they started putting (optimized) supports on PvE enemies? Imagine some of the challenge nodes with Infinity Stones...

    I would love it. I mean imagine having to actually take notice. I'd also love it if the green node whose name I cannot remember was infinite. So it added 50 levels to the AI every time you cleared it. Make it less about pure speed and who was prepared to go further and use their roster. PVE is a joke at our level now, I'd welcome things to make it harder and not just about speed.

    Bring back Heroic PvE? I quite liked it when we did that Boss Event when it was use only Dark Avengers. Of course some of the affiliations are still chock-a-block with great characters but taking on PvE with the Runaways might be interesting or something.

  • JoeHandle
    JoeHandle Posts: 519 Critical Contributor

    @Tony_Foot said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Borstock said:
    I just fought a Dr. Thor and Chi team that fired Shang's purple it's first three turns. I still won, but come on. That's really what we are doing?

    This happened to me also. The only saving grace was that the AI still sucks at using Shang's purple but it still hit hard and hurt and I won by my fingertips.

    At this point I can't decide if this is all crazy fun or terrible disaster.

    Or just pick your targets better like 99% of us have too anyway. I easily climbed to goals without hitting a single juggs and Spider team. Just like I have to avoid many other teams pre supports in PVP.

    It's too easy to say, "just skip more." It is possible ... and IME, common ... to get saddled with an endless loop of the same 3-5 targets. Skip all you want, you're going to see an endless loop of A, B, C ... and in some events some boost weeks, in which a singular optimal team emerges, those Qs may very well be all the exact same. And not fights you would choose, if given a choice. Thus my question to Borstock ... it may sound silly to do the same thing and eat an adverse result 3x, but he may not have had a choice.

    Was to avoid or escape this problem are several ... play very late in the event, stay at a low (sub 800) score, take a break and come back several hours later, take one of the fights and win or lose ... but these aren't always possible or desirable.

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