PVP Supports: Feedback Thread

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  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,342 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    Maybe the Devs could consider taking the 1* out of the boost list and see if that helps?

    I don't think this is a "1* at 672"-exclusive problem. Being able to start with a free cast of something like boosted ascended Killmonger's red, or Karnak's blue, or 4* Nightcrawler purple is just as problematic, if not more so.

    No doubt. I don’t have 550s so I am not at the thick end of this but it also probably doesn’t help that the 1s are boosted so regularly either. To me this is starting to look like a Bishop issue again and I had no problem with Bishop myself. 😀

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,956 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    Maybe the Devs could consider taking the 1* out of the boost list and see if that helps?

    I don't think this is a "1* at 672"-exclusive problem. Being able to start with a free cast of something like boosted ascended Killmonger's red, or Karnak's blue, or 4* Nightcrawler purple is just as problematic, if not more so.

    No doubt. I don’t have 550s so I am not at the thick end of this but it also probably doesn’t help that the 1s are boosted so regularly either. To me this is starting to look like a Bishop issue again and I had no problem with Bishop myself. 😀

    I think the 1* are just the most obvious instance of the problem currently, because people have them and actually use them when they're boosted.

    Next week's boost list has 2* Nightcrawler on it -- a free cast of his purple turn0 could also easily lead to non-games.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,342 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    Maybe the Devs could consider taking the 1* out of the boost list and see if that helps?

    I don't think this is a "1* at 672"-exclusive problem. Being able to start with a free cast of something like boosted ascended Killmonger's red, or Karnak's blue, or 4* Nightcrawler purple is just as problematic, if not more so.

    No doubt. I don’t have 550s so I am not at the thick end of this but it also probably doesn’t help that the 1s are boosted so regularly either. To me this is starting to look like a Bishop issue again and I had no problem with Bishop myself. 😀

    I think the 1* are just the most obvious instance of the problem currently, because people have them and actually use them when they're boosted.

    Next week's boost list has 2* Nightcrawler on it -- a free cast of his purple turn0 could also easily lead to non-games.

    It is interesting how this is basically a combination of passive and AP meta, the worst scenario made flesh, lol!

  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    Maybe the Devs could consider taking the 1* out of the boost list and see if that helps?

    I don't think this is a "1* at 672"-exclusive problem. Being able to start with a free cast of something like boosted ascended Killmonger's red, or Karnak's blue, or 4* Nightcrawler purple is just as problematic, if not more so.

    No doubt. I don’t have 550s so I am not at the thick end of this but it also probably doesn’t help that the 1s are boosted so regularly either. To me this is starting to look like a Bishop issue again and I had no problem with Bishop myself. 😀

    I think the 1* are just the most obvious instance of the problem currently, because people have them and actually use them when they're boosted.

    Next week's boost list has 2* Nightcrawler on it -- a free cast of his purple turn0 could also easily lead to non-games.

    It's the frequency of the 1* s being boosted that's the issue IMO. Two are boosted each week. When there are only eight of them, they get boosted once a month, essentially. I think there are about 101 natural 5* s now. Four get boosted each week. Divide 101 by 4 and you get 25.25, so on average, any given 5* is boosted once every 25 weeks, or twice a year on average. And some weeks, the four boosted aren't anything to write home about. Also, a lot of people who bought the offers the first time around have all these 1* s at 550, so each week they're getting a minimum two 672s to choose from. Not a lot of people have 5* s at 550, especially older 5* s. So even when decent 5* s finally get boosted, they still might be second choice to the 672 1* s available.

    General consensus (and my observation) seems to be Spidey, Juggs, and Yelena are S-tier for the 1*->5 * characters. IM, Storm, and Venom a step below. Don't see Hawkeye and MBW much. So depending on how the boosts break down at least 2/4 weeks in the 1 * rotation sees those characters used a bunch, maybe even 3/4.

  • JoeHandle
    JoeHandle Posts: 535 Critical Contributor

    @Borstock said:
    I had a choice. And I got to 1200. But this isn't fun anymore. The supports have become the whole show. And knowing there's a 50% chance the match is over before you take your first turn because someone put boosts on a cheap spammable bomb that they bought is just garbage.

    Then I am confused about the complaint. You had a choice and chose to repeatedly take on a fight you didn't like?

    I came across people running Ditko Quantum Batons, and fought a few because I wanted to see how it would go. I didn't haul out my own Ditko Quantum Batons ... maybe I will next time. I instead altered my own setup to kill Ditko with my 1st move. One of the fights that didn't come off, DItko fired his crits, but the AI did what the AI does (flub completely), and I used Ditko's crits to kill DItko.

    One mechanic that i didn't catch on to right way was Kaine with the Eros support (whatever that bow is called) would reduce damage 118% (apparently), stacking those reductions, rather than applying them one at a time.

    Since the 1*s are boosted on a 4wk rotation .. there's only 8 and 2 are boosted each week ... if supports in pvp is permanent, this will be a thing for a full week of every month.

    The game changes (supposedly) based on what players do rather than what they say they will do, so ... if not happy, register that unhappiness with a lack of engagement. If not happy but still playing / spending, in the data it all looks the same.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,956 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DarthDeVo said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    Maybe the Devs could consider taking the 1* out of the boost list and see if that helps?

    I don't think this is a "1* at 672"-exclusive problem. Being able to start with a free cast of something like boosted ascended Killmonger's red, or Karnak's blue, or 4* Nightcrawler purple is just as problematic, if not more so.

    No doubt. I don’t have 550s so I am not at the thick end of this but it also probably doesn’t help that the 1s are boosted so regularly either. To me this is starting to look like a Bishop issue again and I had no problem with Bishop myself. 😀

    I think the 1* are just the most obvious instance of the problem currently, because people have them and actually use them when they're boosted.

    Next week's boost list has 2* Nightcrawler on it -- a free cast of his purple turn0 could also easily lead to non-games.

    It's the frequency of the 1* s being boosted that's the issue IMO. Two are boosted each week. When there are only eight of them, they get boosted once a month, essentially. I think there are about 101 natural 5* s now. Four get boosted each week. Divide 101 by 4 and you get 25.25, so on average, any given 5* is boosted once every 25 weeks, or twice a year on average. And some weeks, the four boosted aren't anything to write home about. Also, a lot of people who bought the offers the first time around have all these 1* s at 550, so each week they're getting a minimum two 672s to choose from. Not a lot of people have 5* s at 550, especially older 5* s. So even when decent 5* s finally get boosted, they still might be second choice to the 672 1* s available.

    General consensus (and my observation) seems to be Spidey, Juggs, and Yelena are S-tier for the 1*->5 * characters. IM, Storm, and Venom a step below. Don't see Hawkeye and MBW much. So depending on how the boosts break down at least 2/4 weeks in the 1 * rotation sees those characters used a bunch, maybe even 3/4.

    Right, more people have these guys at 550 and they're boosted more often, so they're just the most obvious instance of a much bigger problem. They are not the full extent of the problem, though -- removing them from the list just shifts the problem elsewhere.

    Like, I've got Ares at 550. At 672 his green hits for (iirc) 18k/AP. I can pretty easily set up a team where turn0 I get a free single target hit at 180-250,000 damage, and guarantee the AI will hit you with the same thing on his turn 1. Can your strategy survive that?

  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 3,484 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Phumade said:

    @slidecage said:

    @Scofie said:
    I think there are 2 schools of thought here: Playing for placement and playing for wins. It seems the first group are in general, unhappy with supports in PvP and the second group are, generally happy, though this is based upon one event.

    My view - I was never competing for anything other than T25 at best or T50. For the Trenchcoat event I finished 51st after dropping 2 places in the last seconds. My score was not great, I got hit way more than before, but wins were easier and quicker. I played an extra few matches as a result.

    Overall it was pretty much the same for me. I can see the need for more shields now though and understand how it could be very expensive HP-wise. But the extra rewards from shielding aren't worth the HP to me, so I'll not bother much and I'll take the hits and lost points and hit back a bit more. It's added a bit more thinking and a bit more trying to beat the team in front of me rather just playing with my best characters.

    How is shields very expensive hp wise
    Unless I'm so out of it. Don't you just shield in the last 8 hours (most peoplle
    Unless you don't get hammered as I'm thinking

    How I play
    Day 1 normal
    Day 2 to end normal shield last 8 hours

    Now maybe I'm wrong but if you played day 1 say you got to 900 pts and shield for 8 hours. .. you come up for hits and play wouldn't you be hit faster then you could play

    meaning if say i was 1200 came out of shield. Played a game won 49 points I would think you get hit so many times it wouldn't be worth it

    Or do people play like crazy first day then just apply sheild after shield till the last 8 or less hours and play (then again I would think you be hit faster then you could play (

    Then again maybe I'm wrong and probably are im so wacked out sm at a target and should be working at a meijers

    Shield would cost what 2400 max per event

    I only do like 8 hours on Sunday and don't think I use any rest of week

    Top 100 or top 50 good enough

    Pills are fun 😊

    Spelling mistake and Grammer nightmare due to cold and nokia 100

    O how I hate this Nokia 100 phone

    The main thing that has changed is that hp and shields are now cheap compared to their old scarcity. By this I just mean, the avg t50 player and certainly any t25 or better can afford near unlimited shield hops. No, people don't really play that way in general (3hops every 8hrs). But none of those players are under a strict shield budget and the flood of slots has really eliminated HP gold pressure.

    Must be getting into sucky groups. I take top 50 without shield if I get around 600 or so

    If I wasn't in a group that had a min of > @LHammer said:

    I now have to memorize every support and their effects at each level in order to know if a team is going to surprise wipe me on the first turn. No, I don't think so. I'm pretty much done with PvP from here on.

    Prior to this, if I didn't have a Pete's Paste Pots support, I didn't have to worry about what it did or who had synergy with it. Now, I'm supposed to know that if it's equipped on a Capricorn it generates three yellow trap tiles for each enemy stunned on the first turn which Chasm then converts to critical tiles with his Mox Emerald for +400% damage because of Red Skull's synergy with his Ultimate Nullifier?

    Nope.

    I have a hard enough time keeping track of three more goofball powers every time a new character is introduced. I don't need this.

    You don't have to memorize anything. Just pick your team and play

    Easy way to do this is like I said. Make it like a boss battle. 2 events running same time

    Non supports will be normal season

    Supports will not count for seadon but it will be a personal goal like the hero side on boss battles

    Or even flip it monthly
    One month supports
    One month no supports
    One month give me all the hp 😂

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,652 Chairperson of the Boards

    I don't want to be that guy, but I told you so.
    The dev's talked about this more than a year ago.
    We knew this was coming and many of their supports acted a bit outside of the issues we thought.

    THEN we saw the reworked supports that made them stronger...LOL

    Im not sure what is going on at BCS, BUT IM SURE IT IS A DISCUSSION ON HOW TO MONIZE MORE.

    These dudes are looking to be the side chick in your wallet.

    I am literally one leg trying to stay. I love the game. But Jesus Christ BCS stop trying to **** every player in your game.

  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 399 Mover and Shaker

    I wonder how many of these bad experiences could have been avoided with more strategy. I think people are trying to play the way they would normally play rather than changing it up to adapt? Not saying that's for sure the case here, but I do wonder.

    Now that supports are available couldn't RiThor start with a turn 1 stun and run the match to the end, stopping Spiderman from attacking at all? I get it they aren't best team on defense, but if for some reason you really wanted to take that fight, couldn't you win it? I also get that means you're more likely to get hit, just thinkin aloud here.

    I personally feel like the "god boost" as they call it is equally as troublesome (if not more) than the supports. Those boosts go to silly levels, also forcing you to have to play those characters for the health and match damage alone.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,744 Chairperson of the Boards

    @JoeHandle Yes. I like a challenge and don't play for placement. I play for progression. I didn't feel like fighting the 672 Phylla - 650+ Ultrons anymore and I ran out of ShangThor teams to pick on.

  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 3,484 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Phumade said:

    @slidecage said:

    @Scofie said:
    I think there are 2 schools of thought here: Playing for placement and playing for wins. It seems the first group are in general, unhappy with supports in PvP and the second group are, generally happy, though this is based upon one event.

    My view - I was never competing for anything other than T25 at best or T50. For the Trenchcoat event I finished 51st after dropping 2 places in the last seconds. My score was not great, I got hit way more than before, but wins were easier and quicker. I played an extra few matches as a result.

    Overall it was pretty much the same for me. I can see the need for more shields now though and understand how it could be very expensive HP-wise. But the extra rewards from shielding aren't worth the HP to me, so I'll not bother much and I'll take the hits and lost points and hit back a bit more. It's added a bit more thinking and a bit more trying to beat the team in front of me rather just playing with my best characters.

    How is shields very expensive hp wise
    Unless I'm so out of it. Don't you just shield in the last 8 hours (most peoplle
    Unless you don't get hammered as I'm thinking

    How I play
    Day 1 normal
    Day 2 to end normal shield last 8 hours

    Now maybe I'm wrong but if you played day 1 say you got to 900 pts and shield for 8 hours. .. you come up for hits and play wouldn't you be hit faster then you could play

    meaning if say i was 1200 came out of shield. Played a game won 49 points I would think you get hit so many times it wouldn't be worth it

    Or do people play like crazy first day then just apply sheild after shield till the last 8 or less hours and play (then again I would think you be hit faster then you could play (

    Then again maybe I'm wrong and probably are im so wacked out sm at a target and should be working at a meijers

    Shield would cost what 2400 max per event

    I only do like 8 hours on Sunday and don't think I use any rest of week

    Top 100 or top 50 good enough

    Pills are fun 😊

    Spelling mistake and Grammer nightmare due to cold and nokia 100

    O how I hate this Nokia 100 phone

    The main thing that has changed is that hp and shields are now cheap compared to their old scarcity. By this I just mean, the avg t50 player and certainly any t25 or better can afford near unlimited shield hops. No, people don't really play that way in general (3hops every 8hrs). But none of those players are under a strict shield budget and the flood of slots has really eliminated HP gold pressure.

    Must be getting into sucky groups. I take top 50 without shield if I get around 600 or so

  • JaGo
    JaGo Posts: 103 Tile Toppler

    @Tony_Foot said:
    Are we really complaining about the only two useful 1s that have been boosted together for the only time I can remember, when MThor has been left running free for years decimating other strategies with out a god boost. Or some of the bonkers ascended 4 we are all now chasing down.

    The biggest issue with the game is people just cannot stand losing at all. They factor the play time to not lose. A few people spent money and got mildly useful 5* when god boosted. Ignoring that every other advantage the proper spenders get.

    Remove the god boost, it's no longer needed for variety.

    I don't think I'd mind losing if it didn't cost me 3 health packs to use the same team, but maybe I still would lol

    -JaGo

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,744 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Tony_Foot said:
    Are we really complaining about the only two useful 1s that have been boosted together for the only time I can remember, when MThor has been left running free for years decimating other strategies with out a god boost. Or some of the bonkers ascended 4 we are all now chasing down.

    The biggest issue with the game is people just cannot stand losing at all. They factor the play time to not lose.

    It didn't matter at all that they were boosted together.

    That people can't stand losing is besides the point. It isn't a competition when the AI can beat you without doing anything. This isn't about losing a few more matches. It's about the match being over before it even begins.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,956 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 4 July 2024, 00:09

    @Borstock said:

    @Tony_Foot said:
    Are we really complaining about the only two useful 1s that have been boosted together for the only time I can remember, when MThor has been left running free for years decimating other strategies with out a god boost. Or some of the bonkers ascended 4 we are all now chasing down.

    The biggest issue with the game is people just cannot stand losing at all. They factor the play time to not lose.

    It didn't matter at all that they were boosted together.

    That people can't stand losing is besides the point. It isn't a competition when the AI can beat you without doing anything. This isn't about losing a few more matches. It's about the match being over before it even begins.

    The technical term for this is "non-game," and it's what this change has created a lot more of.

    If you and your opponent both have optimized support stacks with high level characters, the game is won or lost based on whose supports trigger, before anyone even makes a move. This SUCKS. At least give us the illusion of agency -- make me feel like I'm accomplishing something when I win.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,342 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think the biggest mistake they have made is running this for a Season. If people feel this is affecting them negatively they are far less likely to give it a chance. I don't know how plausible it is to do but it would have been better to have run a mini Supports season (say a week long) and maybe then had a truncated Season after that so players could still play normally and they had time to analyse data from the Supports enabled stuff.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,342 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LHammer said:

    @slidecage said:
    You don't have to memorize anything. Just pick your team and play

    Yeah, you kind of do because picking your team and playing what previously would have been a manageable fight can now result in a massacre because you didn't understand what happens when Yelena has Uncle Ben's Rice equipped on a team with Star Brand.

    Uncle Ben's rice gives you +2 spicy when applied to Mexicans but gets a 14% multiplier to any team equipped with it where at least one character is from Uranus.

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