PVP Supports: Feedback Thread

bluewolf

I don’t want supports in Sim.

People would just put defensive supports on the 3-4 May/OR/Chasm team. Maybe Leapfrog, Eros Arrow, The Deadpool.

I don’t know the answer to Sim being an annoying series of meta team fights but Supports ain’t it.

On the other hand, maybe it wouldn’t be any worse…..

revskip

@bluewolf said:
I don’t want supports in Sim.

People would just put defensive supports on the 3-4 May/OR/Chasm team. Maybe Leapfrog, Eros Arrow, The Deadpool.

I don’t know the answer to Sim being an annoying series of meta team fights but Supports ain’t it.

On the other hand, maybe it wouldn’t be any worse…..

It's already a annoying series of meta team fights once you get past 1000. Let me dump points and at least play around with different supports and team make ups. Every match I saw over 1500 this season was either 4aMay/Chasm/OR or 5aPolaris/mThor/BRB. It's not like not having supports is propping up choice. Having them in there will change nothing. The same folks will start 5-7 early to hit 3k-4k on the season for stone races, most folks will still go for their 50 wins over the course of a season.

At least with them in there we have an actual sandbox to play in that mirrors regular PvP.

entrailbucket

@bluewolf said:
I don’t want supports in Sim.

People would just put defensive supports on the 3-4 May/OR/Chasm team. Maybe Leapfrog, Eros Arrow, The Deadpool.

I don’t know the answer to Sim being an annoying series of meta team fights but Supports ain’t it.

On the other hand, maybe it wouldn’t be any worse…..

They should just apply the weekly boost list to sim. Don't like this week's list? Play sim next week!

You'd get the added benefit of being able to beat up on teams that were good last week and aren't anymore.

While we're on the subject of sim, they desperately need to buff those rewards. I started playing it after Ascension, so I could farm 1* and 2* covers, but that's just about better than the entire reward list.

_TrashPanda

@entrailbucket said:

@bluewolf said:
I don’t want supports in Sim.

People would just put defensive supports on the 3-4 May/OR/Chasm team. Maybe Leapfrog, Eros Arrow, The Deadpool.

I don’t know the answer to Sim being an annoying series of meta team fights but Supports ain’t it.

On the other hand, maybe it wouldn’t be any worse…..

They should just apply the weekly boost list to sim. Don't like this week's list? Play sim next week!

You'd get the added benefit of being able to beat up on teams that were good last week and aren't anymore.

While we're on the subject of sim, they desperately need to buff those rewards. I started playing it after Ascension, so I could farm 1* and 2* covers, but that's just about better than the entire reward list.

Agreed.

KGB

@entrailbucket said:

@bluewolf said:
I don’t want supports in Sim.

People would just put defensive supports on the 3-4 May/OR/Chasm team. Maybe Leapfrog, Eros Arrow, The Deadpool.

I don’t know the answer to Sim being an annoying series of meta team fights but Supports ain’t it.

On the other hand, maybe it wouldn’t be any worse…..

While we're on the subject of sim, they desperately need to buff those rewards. I started playing it after Ascension, so I could farm 1* and 2* covers, but that's just about better than the entire reward list.

Yes. It should be based on the CL you choose. But that also means they have to adjust the match making a bit too so that you get tougher matches when choosing CL10 vs CL9 etc.

KGB

DAZ0273

The entire PvP economy needs looking at but SHIELD Sim, ugh.

We play all season to get to a grand prize of one 4* cover whilst they rain down in PvE and elsewhere. Yet SHIELD Sim is the most obnoxious troll filled "event" with the same teams over and over and nothing has changed for years. No variety, no reason to push on. I genuinely just wait until lots of people have 70+ teams and then pick some off towards Season total (another total rewards fail)- I never bother going all the way for the cover because I rarely need it that badly.

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@bluewolf said:
I don’t want supports in Sim.

People would just put defensive supports on the 3-4 May/OR/Chasm team. Maybe Leapfrog, Eros Arrow, The Deadpool.

I don’t know the answer to Sim being an annoying series of meta team fights but Supports ain’t it.

On the other hand, maybe it wouldn’t be any worse…..

While we're on the subject of sim, they desperately need to buff those rewards. I started playing it after Ascension, so I could farm 1* and 2* covers, but that's just about better than the entire reward list.

Yes. It should be based on the CL you choose. But that also means they have to adjust the match making a bit too so that you get tougher matches when choosing CL10 vs CL9 etc.

KGB

They don't do this because the guiding principle in PvP is "no stomping noobs."

Folks try to manipulate it in various ways to get there, and it's one of the most common complaints about matchmaking, but they try really hard to match you with peers (or, at least, what the game considers peers. The game doesn't know that m'Thor is 1000x better than Black Widow, it just sees their star tier and level).

DAZ0273

You would also potentially run out of targets if who you can fight against was gated to SCL. The reason that SCL were gated at all was in a response to when they tried out Wins and the big Alliances quickly announced that they would go to every bracket possible and take all the top spots meaning you would have 5* players in SCL1 displacing the people who should be there. The Devs didn't like that.

bluewolf

I could be wrong, but I thought SCL gating was partly driven by the Stones but for the same reason. Keeping big rosters out offers the newer people a chance to earn a stone in lower SCLs and potentially eventually compete in higher SCLs etc.

Now, pretty much everyone who was going to hit #1 in a season has the Stones so basically they're playing for red iso and shards for a different Support alongside the various tokens and currencies.

The whole thing is basically a mess.

I don't know how easy or hard it is to change Simulator to adjust to weekly boosts because in the rest of PVP you can have overlapping boosts if you played say S5 mid week and S1 for the weekend (or whenever) and it seems to me that every boost list is custom added to each event, just based on their planned schedule. Whereas Simulator is a season-long event.

It is an annoying slog although sometimes you can find off-meta teams to have fun with, and I try to use non-metas where possible because pure meta is boring to me.

entrailbucket

@bluewolf said:
I could be wrong, but I thought SCL gating was partly driven by the Stones but for the same reason. Keeping big rosters out offers the newer people a chance to earn a stone in lower SCLs and potentially eventually compete in higher SCLs etc.

I don't think the infinity stones are available in the lower SCLs, and the placement rewards are a lot worse. I don't think anybody who could qualify for CL10 would purposely drop down to CL2 or something just to get #1, because they'd get a lot less stuff.

I'm pretty sure the gating is there for two reasons -- to nudge players into going where they should go anyway, if they wrongfully assume that lower CL are easier, and to hide big rosters from new players.

dianetics

@entrailbucket said:
I don't think the infinity stones are available in the lower SCLs, and the placement rewards are a lot worse. I don't think anybody who could qualify for CL10 would purposely drop down to CL2 or something just to get #1, because they'd get a lot less stuff.

I'm pretty sure the gating is there for two reasons -- to nudge players into going where they should go anyway, if they wrongfully assume that lower CL are easier, and to hide big rosters from new players.

Not the 5* versions, but I hazily remember 3 star variants on the lower tiers like 9 or maybe even 8?
People drop down because they don't understand the matchmaking.
The placement rewards are really bad, but if you can get a 3 star stone it is potentially worth it.
If this isn't the case then my reasoning is completely, wrong but we can check it in the next day or so.

DAZ0273

@bluewolf said:
I could be wrong, but I thought SCL gating was partly driven by the Stones but for the same reason. Keeping big rosters out offers the newer people a chance to earn a stone in lower SCLs and potentially eventually compete in higher SCLs etc.

Now, pretty much everyone who was going to hit #1 in a season has the Stones so basically they're playing for red iso and shards for a different Support alongside the various tokens and currencies.

The whole thing is basically a mess.

I don't know how easy or hard it is to change Simulator to adjust to weekly boosts because in the rest of PVP you can have overlapping boosts if you played say S5 mid week and S1 for the weekend (or whenever) and it seems to me that every boost list is custom added to each event, just based on their planned schedule. Whereas Simulator is a season-long event.

It is an annoying slog although sometimes you can find off-meta teams to have fun with, and I try to use non-metas where possible because pure

meta is boring to me.

There was of course no official explanation that I remember but it happened during the VERY vocal opposition to Wins based which also was going to remove CP.

In the end we got the hybrid system and no change to CP but there were some very upset people. Don’t remember Supports even being a thing at the time.

Cletus85

My 2 cents on supports in pvp is that it's great for some and terrible for others. I'm not for or against the idea, but I'd propose a system just like SCL for them. Pick "enhanced" (or whatever you want to call it) pvp to use supports or "classic" to play without. Let the player pick their path.

I'm a player who just recently came back and I use to be a T10 pvp player. Part of that was finding strategies to defeat the Meta Teams, now I'm behind and I've been through 5 cycles of boosted characters and haven't had 1 of my 21 champ 5* boosted. Add to that I don't have the shiniest new supports and pvp has turned into stun-lock by turn 2 or I might as well retreat. Not fun for me, but I can still see the appeal for others. Having no other options sucks though, there's no strategy for "beat much bigger teams AND their ridiculous supports".

WhiteBomber

Now that supports are allowed to move from character to character without a time penalty, it would be suuuper convenient if each character just saved the support you had on them last, making it so you don't have to keep moving them around. You are basically punished (unintentionally) for using different characters. If 2 characters have the same support, obviously it should warn you only 1 is allowed.

Apologies if this feedback was already called out, I just didn't recall seeing it.

DTrain514

@WhiteBomber said:
Now that supports are allowed to move from character to character without a time penalty, it would be suuuper convenient if each character just saved the support you had on them last, making it so you don't have to keep moving them around. You are basically punished (unintentionally) for using different characters. If 2 characters have the same support, obviously it should warn you only 1 is allowed.

Apologies if this feedback was already called out, I just didn't recall seeing it.

Moves low level AI for the 20th time

Borstock

Doesn't look like these are going away. Ugh. I didn't even play three of them last season.

dianetics

@dianetics said:

@entrailbucket said:
I don't think the infinity stones are available in the lower SCLs, and the placement rewards are a lot worse. I don't think anybody who could qualify for CL10 would purposely drop down to CL2 or something just to get #1, because they'd get a lot less stuff.

I'm pretty sure the gating is there for two reasons -- to nudge players into going where they should go anyway, if they wrongfully assume that lower CL are easier, and to hide big rosters from new players.

Not the 5* versions, but I hazily remember 3 star variants on the lower tiers like 9 or maybe even 8?
People drop down because they don't understand the matchmaking.
The placement rewards are really bad, but if you can get a 3 star stone it is potentially worth it.
If this isn't the case then my reasoning is completely, wrong but we can check it in the next day or so.

Just to confirm.
Stones are available starting at CL6
CL6 -> 1 star
CL7 -> 2 star
CL8 -> 3 star
CL9 -> 4 star

If you are at CL10 you cannot join 6 or 7.
So you could potentially enter 8 or 9 and try your luck there.

vinnygecko

I've liked supports in PVP at first, it was something new to figure out and brought some nice surprises along the way.
Now I'm seeing many of the same defensive supports over and over again, just like I see MThor and Shang 24/7. It's gotten stale and somewhat annoying.

Also, MThor with Fantasticar feels very broken. I lost after turn 1 with boosted Moon Knight and Crystal

revskip

@vinnygecko said:
I've liked supports in PVP at first, it was something new to figure out and brought some nice surprises along the way.
Now I'm seeing many of the same defensive supports over and over again, just like I see MThor and Shang 24/7. It's gotten stale and somewhat annoying.

Also, MThor with Fantasticar feels very broken. I lost after turn 1 with boosted Moon Knight and Crystal

Probably could have stopped at mThor. She remains the most broken thing since they neutered Chasm.

Fantasticar has been a much better PvP support than it was a PvE though. In PvE I'm usually trying to make things as predictable as possible. In PvP that chaos is delightful.

Hellblazer666

@vinnygecko said:
I've liked supports in PVP at first, it was something new to figure out and brought some nice surprises along the way.
Now I'm seeing many of the same defensive supports over and over again, just like I see MThor and Shang 24/7. It's gotten stale and somewhat annoying.

Also, MThor with Fantasticar feels very broken. I lost after turn 1 with boosted Moon Knight and Crystal

Probably could have stopped at mThor. She remains the most broken thing since they neutered Chasm.

Fantasticar has been a much better PvP support than it was a PvE though. In PvE I'm usually trying to make things as predictable as possible. In PvP that chaos is delightful.

It's MThor's blue that's the problem when that thing goes off she can do 5-6 moves in a row