Ascended Winners and Losers

tiomono

@Bowgentle said:
Why is self damage going up so much for ascended characters?
4* Rogue does 13.5 % self damage on green, while 5* Rogue does 31.5 %.
I don't understand the need to balance the higher damage with insanely increased self damage, when Coulson can get 5 1 turn CD tiles with zero downside.

My 2* juggernaut does more damage to himself than the enemy for 6 red. It really does seem off.

darkwatcherDEZ

Is Ascended 1* Yelena the first example of abilities costing less AP? Unascended Payback Mission costs 13ap, but store 5*Ascended reads 6ap. Lethal Recon is also flat 12 regardless of level.

1* Natasha got a raw deal

Bowgentle

@darkwatcherDEZ said:
Is Ascended 1* Yelena the first example of abilities costing less AP? Unascended Payback Mission costs 13ap, but store 5*Ascended reads 6ap. Lethal Recon is also flat 12 regardless of level.

1* Natasha got a raw deal

Yelena ascended to 2* costs 6 for Payback mission, not only the 5*

sambrookjm

@tiomono said:

@Bowgentle said:
Why is self damage going up so much for ascended characters?
4* Rogue does 13.5 % self damage on green, while 5* Rogue does 31.5 %.
I don't understand the need to balance the higher damage with insanely increased self damage, when Coulson can get 5 1 turn CD tiles with zero downside.

My 2* juggernaut does more damage to himself than the enemy for 6 red. It really does seem off.

According to the Ascended Juggernaut offer, it's like that with the 5-star as well. At LVL 450:

Headbutt, LVL 4 does 10455 to the enemy and 6202 to himself. 7 Red AP.
Headbutt, LVL 5 does 11961 to the enemy and 12404 to himself. 6 Red AP.

Pantera236

@sambrookjm said:

@tiomono said:

@Bowgentle said:
Why is self damage going up so much for ascended characters?
4* Rogue does 13.5 % self damage on green, while 5* Rogue does 31.5 %.
I don't understand the need to balance the higher damage with insanely increased self damage, when Coulson can get 5 1 turn CD tiles with zero downside.

My 2* juggernaut does more damage to himself than the enemy for 6 red. It really does seem off.

According to the Ascended Juggernaut offer, it's like that with the 5-star as well. At LVL 450:

Headbutt, LVL 4 does 10455 to the enemy and 6202 to himself. 7 Red AP.
Headbutt, LVL 5 does 11961 to the enemy and 12404 to himself. 6 Red AP.

The ratio might be right but the numbers are low. When you buy it he's doing 48k damage at 5 covers.

Glockoma

Cheers!

Zalasta

I asked about juggernaut in the monthly dev questions thread. They choose not to answer my question.

entrailbucket

1* Juggernaut is a winner. Headbutt, for 6ap, is going to kill just about anybody when you get some levels on him, especially when he's boosted (which, again, is like every other week).

He's even better on defense. Can your offensive plan survive a guy getting killed turn 2? Can you deny red so well that the AI can't get to 6?

DAZ0273

I think the last two posts may aptly explain why the Devs chose to have Juggernaut the way he is because not only is he going to headbutt you to death in no time only the Juggernaut can stop the Juggernaut.

Given the frequency I am seeing ascended 1* fives in PvP I am absolutely dreading Juggs. He may in fact absolutely ruin PvP in a way Chasm wasn't even able to because you couldn't buy a 450 Chasm.

Scofie

@Zalasta said:
I asked about juggernaut in the monthly dev questions thread. They choose not to answer my question.

I have seen some official comments on this, possibly on Discord. It's principle was it was relative to health, so it's a much lower % of total health taken vs done against similar levels of opponent. Might have been on the batch 3 ascension thread. I'll have a look for it.

DrClever

That does make some sort of sense.

Bowgentle

Yeah they might have to make adjustments to the frequency of boosted 1s, else PVP might turn into Juggs or GTFO.

DAZ0273

@Tony_Foot said:

@DAZ0273 said:
I think the last two posts may aptly explain why the Devs chose to have Juggernaut the way he is because not only is he going to headbutt you to death in no time only the Juggernaut can stop the Juggernaut.

Given the frequency I am seeing ascended 1* fives in PvP I am absolutely dreading Juggs. He may in fact absolutely ruin PvP in a way Chasm wasn't even able to because you couldn't buy a 450 Chasm.

The fear willl be when supports are in pvp and I can start a match against you with a guaranteed 6 red and extra red every time I make a match. I'm looking forward to trotting out my 550 Juggs against this one clown who hits me over and over with his 550 shang and 510 Mthor.

Luckily I have 1600+ health packs so couldnt give a toss about self damage.

Yup, 1600+ health packs will do it and yes, Juggs with Supports is also gonna be AI proof. The one power in this game that the AI knows how to use is headbutt. I wonder if the guy who programmed Juggs was from Glasgow? 😬😀

Glockoma

On the subject of supports and Juggs, Implanted bomb is a lot of fun if you can find a nice cascade team where Juggs tanks most colors. (It shouldn’t take long after some leveling)

The exploitative nature of Juggs has already been enjoyed with Polaris and BRB, but with his ascension, I’d love to spam his red. To do so, one needs to mitigate the self harm, hence the look into supports. My Implanted bomb allows a Juggs-made Match-4 to burst heal him for roughly 10% of his max health. After a couple of those matches, it extenuates the chunk of damage incurred from a 4-cover Headbutt.

Pairing him any combination of Onslaught, 5* Mags, and/or 4/5 profx, ensures some fun cascades that assist in reaching that goal.

Given villains don’t have any true healing options, this might be the best way to exploit his red. Thoughts, suggestions, or any other ideas toward this goal?

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:
I think the last two posts may aptly explain why the Devs chose to have Juggernaut the way he is because not only is he going to headbutt you to death in no time only the Juggernaut can stop the Juggernaut.

Given the frequency I am seeing ascended 1* fives in PvP I am absolutely dreading Juggs. He may in fact absolutely ruin PvP in a way Chasm wasn't even able to because you couldn't buy a 450 Chasm.

Yes, god forbid PvP becomes dominated by one overpowered character, that anybody can max out and use in every single event forever. (LOL)

I actually think a Juggernaut/Thor metagame (which is absolutely what we're headed for) is much better than the current Thor/X metagame. With Juggernaut around, the AI will randomly oneshot your 550 Thor every other fight, so you'll at least be punished a bit for running a character with 150k health over a boosted guy with 300 or 400k. Also when he kills your Thor randomly, you'll have a very high chance of actually losing the match.

It's also HILARIOUS that literally anybody can get a high level Juggernaut without hoarding or planning out anything, all they have to do is spend $20 and farm some standard tokens.

entrailbucket

@Tony_Foot said:
I cannot tell you how much I'm looking forward to headbutting some Mthor.

I was always told that "punching up" in this game is a good thing, and that it's "good for the game" that relatively new hoarders can trivially beat my 10-plus-year, highly competitive roster.

I wonder how those folks will feel when literally anyone who spends $20 can "punch up" at them. (I bet we'll hear all sorts of fun arguments about how it's "killing the game," now that they're the ones being punched at).

Bowgentle

@entrailbucket said:

@Tony_Foot said:
I cannot tell you how much I'm looking forward to headbutting some Mthor.

I was always told that "punching up" in this game is a good thing, and that it's "good for the game" that relatively new hoarders can trivially beat my 10-plus-year, highly competitive roster.

I wonder how those folks will feel when literally anyone who spends $20 can "punch up" at them. (I bet we'll hear all sorts of fun arguments about how it's "killing the game," now that they're the ones being punched at).

Those guys stopped having fun when their Chasms died.

entrailbucket

@Bowgentle said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Tony_Foot said:
I cannot tell you how much I'm looking forward to headbutting some Mthor.

I was always told that "punching up" in this game is a good thing, and that it's "good for the game" that relatively new hoarders can trivially beat my 10-plus-year, highly competitive roster.

I wonder how those folks will feel when literally anyone who spends $20 can "punch up" at them. (I bet we'll hear all sorts of fun arguments about how it's "killing the game," now that they're the ones being punched at).

Those guys stopped having fun when their Chasms died.

C'mon, those guys have never had fun.

KGB

@entrailbucket said:

@Tony_Foot said:
I cannot tell you how much I'm looking forward to headbutting some Mthor.

I was always told that "punching up" in this game is a good thing, and that it's "good for the game" that relatively new hoarders can trivially beat my 10-plus-year, highly competitive roster.

I wonder how those folks will feel when literally anyone who spends $20 can "punch up" at them. (I bet we'll hear all sorts of fun arguments about how it's "killing the game," now that they're the ones being punched at).

Personally I think you should always be able to win any match if you are willing to spend the resources to do so. Character gets killed mid match, you should be able to spend a health pack to revive them (2 health packs 2nd time one dies, then 4, then 8). Need some AP to fire a power, you should be able to use boosts to get AP anytime you want it mid match (increasingly costly obviously). Or use your Deadpool points on command (no need for the TU or TU AP) for an extra cost. In theory, players are supposed to be heroes (yes, I know we use villains too) and heroes always win sometimes easily and sometimes with high costs.

In the same vein, you should be able to shield as much as you want with increasing costs on the shield each time you use that type.

KGB

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Tony_Foot said:
I cannot tell you how much I'm looking forward to headbutting some Mthor.

I was always told that "punching up" in this game is a good thing, and that it's "good for the game" that relatively new hoarders can trivially beat my 10-plus-year, highly competitive roster.

I wonder how those folks will feel when literally anyone who spends $20 can "punch up" at them. (I bet we'll hear all sorts of fun arguments about how it's "killing the game," now that they're the ones being punched at).

Personally I think you should always be able to win any match if you are willing to spend the resources to do so. Character gets killed mid match, you should be able to spend a health pack to revive them (2 health packs 2nd time one dies, then 4, then 8). Need some AP to fire a power, you should be able to use boosts to get AP anytime you want it mid match (increasingly costly obviously). Or use your Deadpool points on command (no need for the TU or TU AP) for an extra cost. In theory, players are supposed to be heroes (yes, I know we use villains too) and heroes always win sometimes easily and sometimes with high costs.

In the same vein, you should be able to shield as much as you want with increasing costs on the shield each time you use that type.

KGB

In the very early days, we actually had three attempts to win every match -- if you wiped, you could heal your team (and maybe swap characters, I think?) but the enemy would have the same remaining health as when you lost.

I'm not sure how common your attitude about "punching up" is, but what I've found over the years is that a lot of folks SAY they're in favor of it, and enjoy punching up at stronger teams. Oddly, though, they mysteriously stop being in favor of it the moment a lower-level player starts punching up at them.

A lot of 550 Thors are going to start getting headbutted soon and it's going to be delightful.