Ascended Winners and Losers

entrailbucket

@JoeHandle said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Scofie said:
I think it's only fair that the 3☆ version of every character is better than the 2☆ version at comparable levels. The naturally higher character should be slightly better.

Well...let's check Daken.

I have the Thor bros both near 370 in the 4★ range. Their red and green power damage are roughly the same. Their yellows are quite different.

2Thor yellow makes 4 green and does ~75% more dmg

3Thor makes 9 green and delivers way less dmg.

Creates a choice I guess.

2Thor is the same number of tiles at 5* (4 green tiles). I don't have 3thor to 5* yet to check him.

They sure did make some interesting choices with these guys! I wonder how much of it was on purpose!

JoeHandle

@entrailbucket said:

@JoeHandle said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Scofie said:
I think it's only fair that the 3☆ version of every character is better than the 2☆ version at comparable levels. The naturally higher character should be slightly better.

Well...let's check Daken.

I have the Thor bros both near 370 in the 4★ range. Their red and green power damage are roughly the same. Their yellows are quite different.

2Thor yellow makes 4 green and does ~75% more dmg

3Thor makes 9 green and delivers way less dmg.

Creates a choice I guess.

2Thor is the same number of tiles at 5* (4 green tiles). I don't have 3thor to 5* yet to check him.

They sure did make some interesting choices with these guys! I wonder how much of it was on purpose!

2Thor makes fewer greens at 2★, 3★, and 4★ ... I hadn't noticed such a yawning damage gap opening up until just now!

I don't have either near 5★ ascension. Both near 370, but no dupes waiting to grab the baton.

entrailbucket

And while we're at it, I just got this one today and can do a like to like comparison.

1* Storm at 450:

entrailbucket

3* Storm at 450:

entrailbucket

... someone make it make sense. Why???

Zarqa

How do they compare health wise? Does 3star have a lot more HP? Otherwise, it does not make sense.

JoeHandle

@entrailbucket said:
... someone make it make sense. Why???

Make what make sense? Looks ok-ish to me .....

ThaRoadWarrior

I'm kind of torn on who should be naturally better - I think that characters you can chase via Favorites are "easier" to get to those ascended levels, so it at some level makes sense that 1 and 2* characters who are purely RNGeezus granted might be superior after the time investment is put in. But it's also kind of a feels-bad when somebody like Arcade promoted to 5* is just head and shoulders better than the natural born 5* version. From that perspective you do kind of want the version that starts higher to go higher, right?

entrailbucket

@JoeHandle said:

@entrailbucket said:
... someone make it make sense. Why???

Make what make sense? Looks ok-ish to me .....

I think they're both ok-ish, but it's just weird. 1* Storm makes more AP on green for some reason. The yellows are probably a wash, but it's unclear why the 1* blows up one less tile but for more damage per tile. And 1* makes more attack tiles, that are MUCH weaker per tile.

Is that what they look like at their base levels? Maybe I just never noticed the difference.

3* Storm does have more health -- it's 63,386 to 42,732.

JoeHandle

@entrailbucket said:

@JoeHandle said:

@entrailbucket said:
... someone make it make sense. Why???

Make what make sense? Looks ok-ish to me .....

I think they're both ok-ish, but it's just weird. 1* Storm makes more AP on green for some reason. The yellows are probably a wash, but it's unclear why the 1* blows up one less tile but for more damage per tile. And 1* makes more attack tiles, that are MUCH weaker per tile.

Is that what they look like at their base levels? Maybe I just never noticed the difference.

3* Storm does have more health -- it's 63,386 to 42,732.

1 and 3 storm have always had differences ... generally 1storm affecting more tiles but weaker per tile ... and 3storm has always been knocked for affecting fewer tiles but ofc used more because 1storm has always been so fragile and confined to low levels ... until ascension.

A quick glance at my own copies suggests those differences more or less carry forward through the tiers, but i haven't dugg through to map it out fully ... yet?

One does have to wonder if each of these chars was handled in a bubble, or with references to other related chars while working through implementation of ascension. Who was in what batch might suggest how chars were worked on ... haven't gone back to look at that either

entrailbucket

Just got him done today. I don't see any obvious "nerfs." His health is on the low side for a 5* but not nearly as low as I expected.

BriMan2222

Just got my first 3 star ascended to 5 and I don't think I've seen him in here yet, so here's 3a5 Thor

Bustapup

Has anyone ascended HagAtha yet? I'm aiming to and hope she can withstand the initial onslaught of May, Chasm and Omega so she can start boosting her protect tiles each turn before zapping them dead

rainkingucd

@Bustapup said:
Has anyone ascended HagAtha yet? I'm aiming to and hope she can withstand the initial onslaught of May, Chasm and Omega so she can start boosting her protect tiles each turn before zapping them dead

I found a 3a4, but no 3a5 yet.

Her yellow boosts protects by 250% instead of 160%, and her Purple boosts enemy self damage by 80% instead of 70%

ThaRoadWarrior

Can somebody with a 4* Domino help me run a test to see if she works at all? I have been feeling lately like her black passive doesn’t do anything, so I went into a challenge node using sersi and 2->4 magneto with iron hammer set to 5 to see what happens when you wipe the whole board. As worded when ascended, as long as she is in the fight incoming tiles are 100% more likely to be black. I assume this just means they have a 2:7 chance of being black rather than a 7:7 chance, but here are the results of two iron hammers before and after:
Before 1:

After 1:

Before 2:

After 2:

WhiteBomber

I'm pretty sure Domino is just bad? I've tried to run her on multiple occasions with different teams and it never felt like there was maybe more than 1 extra black on the board. Kinda sad since the concept is cool, but I have never seen her succeed. You are way better off with someone else, like XFWolverine.

@Bustapup said:
Has anyone ascended HagAtha yet? I'm aiming to and hope she can withstand the initial onslaught of May, Chasm and Omega so she can start boosting her protect tiles each turn before zapping them dead

I immediately put her to 4 to combat Red and others. I posted in more detail in some other threads, but even at 3 / 4star she can crush Red May with the proper team. The problem is Chasm really puts a damper on her with the initial stun, if you are fighting Red May you want that protect tile on turn 1, otherwise you will need heals to offset the large team damage you eat off the bat.

So, even if you put her to 5star, you will still eat 30k+ damage, which over multiple matches isn't sustainable enough IMO. I started a thread specifically to target this team, which there are multiple better options. However, if Chasm isn't there, you will definitely have some fun destroying them in a pick2. I take Karnak5 with her and by the 2nd turn you probably won't take any more damage.

I personally switched my favorite to Namor because he just provides way more value, though she is fun (but Namor is even more fun). If you are struggling with that annoying team, I recommend checking out the thread specifically for it, you can come out of that fight with full health running the right teams.

Other Notes:

• 3-5 ascended LukeCage puts out a crazy protect tile at all times (like double Karnaks and always comes back), so he will likely be her best friend in a couple years.
• If Chasm is there it can slow the match enough that your protects go over the limit and turn negative, when this happens you better end the match immediately, or the match damage alone will ruin you.
• If you run Chasm on your team also it speeds up the process since his self inflicted damage immediately triggers her passive, increasing your protect tiles.
• The percentage increase of her protect tiles is very likely to get nerfed when she hits 5.
• If anyone has 4-5 ascended Shehulk, they should try pairing them together since she very specifically creates protects before the damage is applied and I'd be curious if this can be built around and if it also triggers Agathas passive at the same time, preventing the bulk of team damage.
• It's actually a damn shame that Chasm is the reason she is less viable, because her other passive causes him to take additional self inflicted damage each turn, which is fun.

JoeHandle

@WhiteBomber said:
I'm pretty sure Domino is just bad? I've tried to run her on multiple occasions with different teams and it never felt like there was maybe more than 1 extra black on the board. Kinda sad since the concept is cool, but I have never seen her succeed. You are way better off with someone else, like XFWolverine.

Disagree. She is one of my go-to's for the "puzzle" quest that is themed around gathering color AP and making color tiles.

JoeHandle

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
Can somebody with a 4* Domino help me run a test to see if she works at all? I have been feeling lately like her black passive doesn’t do anything, so I went into a challenge node using sersi and 2->4 magneto with iron hammer set to 5 to see what happens when you wipe the whole board. As worded when ascended, as long as she is in the fight incoming tiles are 100% more likely to be black. I assume this just means they have a 2:7 chance of being black rather than a 7:7 chance, but here are the results of two iron hammers before and after...

The wording refers to tiles dropped from top of board during your turn ... in the game's spaghetti coding, does that apply to dropping an entirely new board? I dunno. Did you try with MnMags blue set to 3 or 4 covers? See if there is a difference when blowing out a chunk of board, rather than all?

I'll play around with her and Black Bolt, see what happens when he screams.

EDIT to add:

Took Bolt and Domino into the wave node in WtS. Played it twice. Definite bias toward black tiles, esp as the match wore on, I hit 30 AP in black first both times, and, after Bolt destroyed the entire board, AND the board cascaded and settled (the initial refill was VERY black heavy), it was still biased toward black:

RNG being RNG, probably takes a longer match (for some definition of "longer") for the bias to become apparent. And maybe there's something different about Mags blue and Bolt green.

ThaRoadWarrior

Magneto’s blue being a countdown may create a funny ownership scenario, I hadn’t considered it. I took my covered but unleveled Luna and 5* Namor into sim with her to see if that was any different, because I believe that team would play well together with cascade foolishness feeding Namor’s nuke, but I think I need a PVE goon mode to attempt it until I get more levels on the other two characters.

StevO-J

I only recently noticed that 3* Jubilee gets a boost of her %-ages when ascended to 4*, quite similar to Iron May. Would I be correct in assuming that this trend also holds for Jubilee when ascending her to the 5* realm, as in the percentages go down again when going 4 to 5*. Would be pretty early days to have vampire Jubilee already ascended to 5* I guess, but I thought I'd ask just in case someone has the numbers.