Ascended Winners and Losers

ThaRoadWarrior

2a5 Cap is awful, his powers all still cost hilarious amounts of AP and barely do anything. Surely he is already in the thread, but I just got mine there and felt compelled to report in

Borstock

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
2a5 Cap is awful, his powers all still cost hilarious amounts of AP and barely do anything. Surely he is already in the thread, but I just got mine there and felt compelled to report in

They could chop 2 AP off the cost of every one of his powers and he would still be awful.

Bustapup

Guys what do we think about ascended characters that lose % scaling? Is it kind of offset by the fact they're now 5* characters with higher base stats? I'm looking at Meteorite and (even more so) Captain Avalon.

His red and blue passive buff to attack and protect tiles goes from 150% to 75% and I can see Meteorite Thunderbolt buff is similarly nerfed

Is it still worth ascending them for survivability or not? I've been building towards my dream team of Betsy, Brian and Psylocke or Kitty but now I've seen his ascended stats im a bit 😵‍💫 as it seems like a HUGE nerf

entrailbucket

@Bustapup said:
Guys what do we think about ascended characters that lose % scaling? Is it kind of offset by the fact they're now 5* characters with higher base stats? I'm looking at Meteorite and (even more so) Captain Avalon.

His red and blue passive buff to attack and protect tiles goes from 150% to 75% and I can see Meteorite Thunderbolt buff is similarly nerfed

Is it still worth ascending them for survivability or not? I've been building towards my dream team of Betsy, Brian and Psylocke or Kitty but now I've seen his ascended stats im a bit 😵‍💫 as it seems like a HUGE nerf

It's case by case, and it's really just down to how you'll use the character.

As an example, 4* Deadpool's passive mostly stops working when he's a 5*, so if that's why you use him, you might not want to ascend. His purple active power gets really, really strong though (just a quick plug for that ability as an m'Thor-killer).

In general anyone who's a buffer gets worse at buffing as you ascend. But it's a tradeoff. Characters at lower tiers are awful on defense, and many of these guys will die in one move. I care a lot about defense, so I'd never run a 4*, even if it's Iron May. I also go out of my way to target these teams.

WhiteBomber

@Bustapup said:
Guys what do we think about ascended characters that lose % scaling? Is it kind of offset by the fact they're now 5* characters with higher base stats? I'm looking at Meteorite and (even more so) Captain Avalon.

His red and blue passive buff to attack and protect tiles goes from 150% to 75% and I can see Meteorite Thunderbolt buff is similarly nerfed

Is it still worth ascending them for survivability or not? I've been building towards my dream team of Betsy, Brian and Psylocke or Kitty but now I've seen his ascended stats im a bit 😵‍💫 as it seems like a HUGE nerf

Did they even fix Avalon? Previously his passive buffs didn't even work. I thought the latest version was they might work for him (matching and tanking) but not his team?

There is definitely some debate to be had for not leveling some characters (depending on your playstyle / needs) but I don't think Avalon was one of them. If I remember correctly, the nerf to Betsy's buffs were even more, but I would definitely still ascend her, rather than building only around hitting someone really hard with your pink if you have enough protect tiles out.

Avalon is one of the people I really want to ascend next, but I don't think the ding in his buffs offsets how I would use him. To me, he is ability and SAP spam with health swap gimmicks (that could just be me though).

I will say however, they have definitely caught on to how good some of the characters are, as when you look at the buffs from a lot of the older 4stars (Karnak, Ikaris, Jugger, Magik, Beast, Baku, Ghost etc. etc.), they all retained excellent buff numbers. However, ALL of the new school (May, Betsy, DD, Winder, Avalon, GR2099, Moonstone, BlackKing especially) take a noticeable hit to their numbers.

They are clearly much more fearful / aware of ascension now than they were when they started, leaving most of the new 4stars still quite usable when ascended, but none of them slingshotting to crazy levels like Baku, Coulson etc.

For most of them, I PERSONALLY still see more value in ascending them, UNLESS their only use is tied to that number (IronMay, DarkVeil kinda). Other people have differing priorities though, IE: Multiman.

WhiteBomber

After having using him ascended quite a bit now, I can finally weigh in and say, they definitely did BlackKing dirty... He went from what would have been a top tier 5star, to nothing more than "I survive a little bit longer and slow down MThor". He's still decent and usable, don't get me wrong, but his defense is not nearly enough to offset the amount of damage he eats while not doing as much match damage as I hoped.

Bustapup

@WhiteBomber said:

@Bustapup said:
Guys what do we think about ascended characters that lose % scaling? Is it kind of offset by the fact they're now 5* characters with higher base stats? I'm looking at Meteorite and (even more so) Captain Avalon.

His red and blue passive buff to attack and protect tiles goes from 150% to 75% and I can see Meteorite Thunderbolt buff is similarly nerfed

Is it still worth ascending them for survivability or not? I've been building towards my dream team of Betsy, Brian and Psylocke or Kitty but now I've seen his ascended stats im a bit 😵‍💫 as it seems like a HUGE nerf

Did they even fix Avalon? Previously his passive buffs didn't even work. I thought the latest version was they might work for him (matching and tanking) but not his team?

There is definitely some debate to be had for not leveling some characters (depending on your playstyle / needs) but I don't think Avalon was one of them. If I remember correctly, the nerf to Betsy's buffs were even more, but I would definitely still ascend her, rather than building only around hitting someone really hard with your pink if you have enough protect tiles out.

Avalon is one of the people I really want to ascend next, but I don't think the ding in his buffs offsets how I would use him. To me, he is ability and SAP spam with health swap gimmicks (that could just be me though).

I will say however, they have definitely caught on to how good some of the characters are, as when you look at the buffs from a lot of the older 4stars (Karnak, Ikaris, Jugger, Magik, Beast, Baku, Ghost etc. etc.), they all retained excellent buff numbers. However, ALL of the new school (May, Betsy, DD, Winder, Avalon, GR2099, Moonstone, BlackKing especially) take a noticeable hit to their numbers.

They are clearly much more fearful / aware of ascension now than they were when they started, leaving most of the new 4stars still quite usable when ascended, but none of them slingshotting to crazy levels like Baku, Coulson etc.

For most of them, I PERSONALLY still see more value in ascending them, UNLESS their only use is tied to that number (IronMay, DarkVeil kinda). Other people have differing priorities though, IE: Multiman.

I already have Betsy ascended and she's still a powerhouse and they have indeed fixed Avalon. I've been using him with Mephisto and Sam and the 150% buff to strike tiles is so good especially with the AI support. That's what's got me wondering whether I want to ascend him.

Even with Betsy, when I'm ready to pop her purple, I do his yellow to make him lowest health so then she's getting the 100% buff from her own passive and 150% buff from him. It's crazy strong

Bustapup

@WhiteBomber said:
After having using him ascended quite a bit now, I can finally weigh in and say, they definitely did BlackKing dirty... He went from what would have been a top tier 5star, to nothing more than "I survive a little bit longer and slow down MThor". He's still decent and usable, don't get me wrong, but his defense is not nearly enough to offset the amount of damage he eats while not doing as much match damage as I hoped.

Oh I definitely disagree with this.....BKing, Agatha and Ascended Purple Man are what I use to beat any charge tile based team and it works against MThor, Frankie, Iron Heart etc and all i really see now are 550 teams and Shaw is nowhere near that level and still holds his own. He's one of my favourite characters.

In fact now I think on it, Avalon would work well with him too providing protect tiles to help him absorb the damage .... Hmmmmm

entrailbucket

@WhiteBomber said:
After having using him ascended quite a bit now, I can finally weigh in and say, they definitely did BlackKing dirty... He went from what would have been a top tier 5star, to nothing more than "I survive a little bit longer and slow down MThor". He's still decent and usable, don't get me wrong, but his defense is not nearly enough to offset the amount of damage he eats while not doing as much match damage as I hoped.

I remember trying him out a bunch and being pretty disappointed. I expected a guy who'd shut down m'Thor and Polaris and he just kept dying to those fights.

I've leveled him up a bunch since then so I wonder if he's got more survivability. I should probably revisit him eventually.

Timemachinego

@entrailbucket said:

@WhiteBomber said:
After having using him ascended quite a bit now, I can finally weigh in and say, they definitely did BlackKing dirty... He went from what would have been a top tier 5star, to nothing more than "I survive a little bit longer and slow down MThor". He's still decent and usable, don't get me wrong, but his defense is not nearly enough to offset the amount of damage he eats while not doing as much match damage as I hoped.

I remember trying him out a bunch and being pretty disappointed. I expected a guy who'd shut down m'Thor and Polaris and he just kept dying to those fights.

I've leveled him up a bunch since then so I wonder if he's got more survivability. I should probably revisit him eventually.

I had the same reaction, I consider him my 2nd most wasted ascension effort. At least most of my others are somewhere between fun and great.

WhiteBomber

@Timemachinego said:

@entrailbucket said:

@WhiteBomber said:
After having using him ascended quite a bit now, I can finally weigh in and say, they definitely did BlackKing dirty... He went from what would have been a top tier 5star, to nothing more than "I survive a little bit longer and slow down MThor". He's still decent and usable, don't get me wrong, but his defense is not nearly enough to offset the amount of damage he eats while not doing as much match damage as I hoped.

I remember trying him out a bunch and being pretty disappointed. I expected a guy who'd shut down m'Thor and Polaris and he just kept dying to those fights.

I've leveled him up a bunch since then so I wonder if he's got more survivability. I should probably revisit him eventually.

I had the same reaction, I consider him my 2nd most wasted ascension effort. At least most of my others are somewhere between fun and great.

Yeah, he went from a hard carry, to a charge tile support. He is good at the charge tile thing and no one else really does that too well, but he needs heals, big protects or a very fast infinite to not require all of the health packs.

I would still be glad to add levels to him since he is at least high health and he wants match damage, but he's no where near the best tank and using his match damage buff is awkward, you've either had to eat a ton of damage, or drained all of your AP for something others do for way cheaper / free.

I'll definitely keep looking for other good friends for him though.

entrailbucket

Finally! Dunno why he randomly became eligible to ascend today, but whatever.

Lvl451 no boost -- I think he's pretty good, but haven't tested at all yet.

bluewolf

@entrailbucket said:
Finally! Dunno why he randomly became eligible to ascend today, but whatever.

The Discord denizens kept asking s0kun about it and eventually I guess it worked.

entrailbucket

Lvl450 no boost -- looking forward to trying out the Zemo/Red Skull/Zola team now that he's 5*! (It was pretty good before)

The passive when he's dead is unchanged.

ThaRoadWarrior

Anti-Venom after ascension is still terrible, still counters exactly 0 of the characters named Venom, but he is still allowed to take part in the 4* DDQ node after ascension.

DAZ0273

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
Anti-Venom after ascension is still terrible, still counters exactly 0 of the characters named Venom, but he is still allowed to take part in the 4* DDQ node after ascension.

See if you are looking for a D-tier character look right here!

Borstock

What's funny about Anti-Venom is that, as long as they let you use the 5* in DDQ, he will probably get very good usage numbers. Which means they won't be rushing to buff him.

Gymp28

@Borstock said:
What's funny about Anti-Venom is that, as long as they let you use the 5* in DDQ, he will probably get very good usage numbers. Which means they won't be rushing to buff him.

Surely they can tell what game mode a character is being used in? If it’s only DDQ I don’t think that counts as ‘balanced usage’. Hopefully antivenom is still on the cards for full rework…

It’s definitely odd that they seem to only look at total number of matches any given character gets used in (if indeed that is the case).
A better measure would be to look at no. of matches, but standardised by the proportion of players with that character champed, and also compared with players who have that character ascended.
If 98% of people with a 3Asc5Magik use her in every match (for example, obviously this won’t be the case) then surely that’s the cause for balance concerns and a nerf consideration.
Equally if 0.5% of people with a 4a5Antivenom uses him for anything (and that’s only DDQ), that should be a balance red flag.

Everyone who reads any social media relating to the game has been told to focus on champing Shang chi and MThor for years, of course their usage is sky high…

Not raging against you at all @Borstock, it’s just these devs frustrating the life out of me.

LavaManLee

I must be missing something. Why would people use a 4a5Anti-Venom in DDQ?

TheXMan

@LavaManLee said:
I must be missing something. Why would people use a 4a5Anti-Venom in DDQ?

Only 5 star you can use on I Got a Golden Disc