Ascended Winners and Losers

dianetics

@KGB said
So you are saying iHulk teams can't beat Scarlet Witch teams? Even if you keep the manage the trigger for his passive so it doesn't activate and your other character can stun her or send her away etc? Maybe the win rate only 70 instead of 95+ but it's not like 20 or lower.

KGB

P.S. The evil side of me says the Devs could technically MThor usage without actually nerfing her stats. The evil method would be to introduce a 1-2 second more delay on her passives and actives firing when used by the player (AI control would remain same). That delay would infuriate players esp in the speed mode game of PvP and lessen her usage without it technically being a nerf

Steel Witch put HulkOyoye in the trash bin.
The day Wanda went into LL ihulk and okoye were dead.
Steelwitch was the wall for like 6 months, and pvp was ultra slow.

Hulk was the shot, but honestly Okoye never recovered. Hulk came around with Chasm, but Okoye never had another running mate in PvP after Wanda came around.

ThaRoadWarrior

You could make Thano5 purple a passive and it would shut it down. Or just reduce the cost to 3-5ap

KGB

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
You could make Thano5 purple a passive and it would shut it down. Or just reduce the cost to 3-5ap

This is the one I think makes the most sense. Leave the active part of his Purple as is (or make it last 5 turns at 5 covers) but add a passive part to the Purple that auto places it at Battle Start so that it's in play immediately. That would neuter her for several turns (until CD matched or expired) giving players a chance to get enough Purple to fire again.

KGB

KGB

@dianetics said:

@KGB said
So you are saying iHulk teams can't beat Scarlet Witch teams? Even if you keep the manage the trigger for his passive so it doesn't activate and your other character can stun her or send her away etc? Maybe the win rate only 70 instead of 95+ but it's not like 20 or lower.

KGB

P.S. The evil side of me says the Devs could technically MThor usage without actually nerfing her stats. The evil method would be to introduce a 1-2 second more delay on her passives and actives firing when used by the player (AI control would remain same). That delay would infuriate players esp in the speed mode game of PvP and lessen her usage without it technically being a nerf

Steel Witch put HulkOyoye in the trash bin.
The day Wanda went into LL ihulk and okoye were dead.
Steelwitch was the wall for like 6 months, and pvp was ultra slow.

Hulk was the shot, but honestly Okoye never recovered. Hulk came around with Chasm, but Okoye never had another running mate in PvP after Wanda came around.

That's one team specifically neutering one team. Not a character entirely neutering another character as EB was suggesting. What he is suggesting is something entirely different than what you guys both mentioned.

KGB

BriMan2222

Electro> @KGB said:

@dianetics said:

@KGB said
So you are saying iHulk teams can't beat Scarlet Witch teams? Even if you keep the manage the trigger for his passive so it doesn't activate and your other character can stun her or send her away etc? Maybe the win rate only 70 instead of 95+ but it's not like 20 or lower.

KGB

P.S. The evil side of me says the Devs could technically MThor usage without actually nerfing her stats. The evil method would be to introduce a 1-2 second more delay on her passives and actives firing when used by the player (AI control would remain same). That delay would infuriate players esp in the speed mode game of PvP and lessen her usage without it technically being a nerf

Steel Witch put HulkOyoye in the trash bin.
The day Wanda went into LL ihulk and okoye were dead.
Steelwitch was the wall for like 6 months, and pvp was ultra slow.

Hulk was the shot, but honestly Okoye never recovered. Hulk came around with Chasm, but Okoye never had another running mate in PvP after Wanda came around.

That's one team specifically neutering one team. Not a character entirely neutering another character as EB was suggesting. What he is suggesting is something entirely different than what you guys both mentioned.

KGB

It is one character neutering another though. Wanda shuts down ihulk. Okoye was just paired with hulk to boost him and collosus was just paired with Wanda to be extra annoyingly defensive. The key interaction is Wanda vs Ihulk, their partners aren't very important. The same could be said about Electro vs ihulk, she's just less noticeable because Wanda had already done the job.

Both Wanda and Electro also work effectively against Omega Red.

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@dianetics said:

@KGB said
So you are saying iHulk teams can't beat Scarlet Witch teams? Even if you keep the manage the trigger for his passive so it doesn't activate and your other character can stun her or send her away etc? Maybe the win rate only 70 instead of 95+ but it's not like 20 or lower.

KGB

P.S. The evil side of me says the Devs could technically MThor usage without actually nerfing her stats. The evil method would be to introduce a 1-2 second more delay on her passives and actives firing when used by the player (AI control would remain same). That delay would infuriate players esp in the speed mode game of PvP and lessen her usage without it technically being a nerf

Steel Witch put HulkOyoye in the trash bin.
The day Wanda went into LL ihulk and okoye were dead.
Steelwitch was the wall for like 6 months, and pvp was ultra slow.

Hulk was the shot, but honestly Okoye never recovered. Hulk came around with Chasm, but Okoye never had another running mate in PvP after Wanda came around.

That's one team specifically neutering one team. Not a character entirely neutering another character as EB was suggesting. What he is suggesting is something entirely different than what you guys both mentioned.

KGB

Sorta yes, sorta no. I don't know that it needs to be 100% winrate on defense, but currently there's nothing that she even has a moment's struggle against -- maybe we could start there?

I could write another billion words about this but again we are way off track here and we don't need yet another thread for this topic.

ThaRoadWarrior

One on one, SWitch would very likely murder immortal hulk almost every time, who can only make 18 matches from full health before dying of self inflicted attrition not including enemy damage.

entrailbucket

Anybody even remember she existed? Pretty good kit, honestly -- mine is lvl484 pre boost, these are boosted numbers.

entrailbucket

Also this is completely ridiculous (2*, lvl672, fully maxed with boost):

Borstock

Some of these damage numbers are ludicrous. How is that at all balanced?

Gymp28

Thanks for getting this beloved thread back on track EB!

entrailbucket

@Borstock said:
Some of these damage numbers are ludicrous. How is that at all balanced?

I said it somewhere else and everybody laughed at me, but so many of these guys are so strong, I don't know how you adopt any other strategy besides "get them all and use whoever's boosted."

Like, Black Cat is out here wrecking house, and I forgot she was even in the game!

ThaRoadWarrior

Black Cat was like the 4* Jessica Jones at release, except you could find her traps right away. At 5* it looks like she is pretty wild. SO many characters came out at 4* that got the reaction of “well, if this were a 5* they’d be great!” And then they got tossed in the back of the closet. I am with EB that being able to ascend them all really opens up options for both interesting play and powerful combos that were historically weak.

dianetics

@entrailbucket said:
Like, Black Cat is out here wrecking house, and I forgot she was even in the game!

Black Cat has always been nice, and her kit is top choice.
There was a stretch where all the great character released were 4s. Literally the best characters designed in the game were all 4s. The 5s became much better after BCS took over.

There are a lot of very strong 4s and when they are ascended do very well. Even obscure ones like Black Cat like you mentioned were strong on release and have a great kit. Others who could be quite strong ascended are Agent Venom, Scorpion, Lizard, Vulture, and Morbius.

ThaRoadWarrior

yeah I think Agent Venom is probably a sleeper for sure. he is one of a few characters that can trigger Move or Be Moved actively, so whenever 5* BP gets that rebalance look out for that combo lol. but really his Black I expect would hit pretty hard if it scales right, and it only costs 5. Vulture is good, I have him ascended, but his primary utility remains generating AP. I run him, gamora, and sandman all ascended for green and blue stunlock sometimes like I used to do as a 4* player. I fought an ascended morbius in sim yesterday, but i didn't bring a team that was vulnerable to him to have it matter. I assume somebody has done Blade by now? Mine is waiting on iso, but he seems like he could be good too.

entrailbucket

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
yeah I think Agent Venom is probably a sleeper for sure. he is one of a few characters that can trigger Move or Be Moved actively, so whenever 5* BP gets that rebalance look out for that combo lol. but really his Black I expect would hit pretty hard if it scales right, and it only costs 5. Vulture is good, I have him ascended, but his primary utility remains generating AP. I run him, gamora, and sandman all ascended for green and blue stunlock sometimes like I used to do as a 4* player. I fought an ascended morbius in sim yesterday, but i didn't bring a team that was vulnerable to him to have it matter. I assume somebody has done Blade by now? Mine is waiting on iso, but he seems like he could be good too.

Waiting on boosts for basically all these guys -- I have them all, but always have better boosted options for the week.

In general it seems to be damage dealer types who benefit the most, which flips everything on its head. 4* (and below) damage characters were so useless for us, for years, that we'd never even bother with them.

Utility type characters (the ones we all used to pair with our 5*) are still viable, of course, but don't gain nearly as much.

Domitronas

Entrail can you have a look at these if you have them: Punisher MAX, Wiccan, Yondu. Mainly interested whether there's functional changes, but at the same time interested in their numbers. Wiccan green in particular could be really strong when scaled to 5*, I think.

rainkingucd

@Domitronas said:
Entrail can you have a look at these if you have them: Punisher MAX, Wiccan, Yondu. Mainly interested whether there's functional changes, but at the same time interested in their numbers. Wiccan green in particular could be really strong when scaled to 5*, I think.

Here's Wiccan. No functional changes just numbers boost. His blue benefits a lot from him being in front now with 5* match damage, both for the AP gen and then the transformed row clearing AP gen. Which means I need him healed more, so I tend to run him 5/5/3 as an AP gen support rather than a damage dealer with his green

dramatist

You are all right about how long it’s going to take to ascend a 3* to 5* for someone who is a small spender. I’ve had 3* Magic as my sharded 3* for months now and my Magic is only level 316 ( with another 266 3* that I use in the DD). I will have to play years before I have one 3* ascended to a 5*.

I have paused ascending 4s for some time now. I have about 20 that could be baby ascended but none of them are super appealing so I’m just waiting for inspiration or boredom to strike to ascend those. I’ve had 4 Juggernaut as my shard target for a while and he’s now level 488.

A few months ago I would shard a 4* I was rebuilding until I rechamped them, but that was using up so much Iso that I’m worried about running out now. In fact I had been free to play for about 5 years until recently when I’ll sometimes buy a $1.99 deal just to get bonus Iso for a month.

entrailbucket

@Domitronas said:
Entrail can you have a look at these if you have them: Punisher MAX, Wiccan, Yondu. Mainly interested whether there's functional changes, but at the same time interested in their numbers. Wiccan green in particular could be really strong when scaled to 5*, I think.

I don't see any functional changes to Punisher or Yondu. The numbers seem good? Punisher will go pretty crazy, but 10ap for his actives is going to be tough with no feeder. Mine is lvl485.

Yondu does like 50k unboosted on Yaka Arrow, which should end up about 125k with the boost. Then it'll be an extra 9k/25k (boosted) per turn -- still costs 10 but that seems ok. Mine is lvl487.

I'd post all 8 screenshots here but that's a lot. Just look up the numbers in my roster. I know they don't let you search but you can use the level numbers to find them. I'm in the alliance Clochards (and will be forever).